Pakistan in India

[sohum]

Okay then how does that work in the last 10 years, if you just claimed yourself that Pakistan has entered a rebuilding phase? And if they were fully capable of beating India in 2003, what happened?

 

[Nav-D]

Okay then how does that work in the last 10 years, if you just claimed yourself that Pakistan has entered a rebuilding phase? And if they were fully capable of beating India in 2003, what happened?

The rebuilding phase started after the world cup.

When India did win it is because they played better and deserved to win, they were not necessarily a better team. I never said India are a bad team or they can't beat Pakistan, it is just that, after 1987 Pakistan at times have just been better or equal.

I give credit where its due, I certainly don't have a problem giving credit to India, if they do win the coming series then they have played better and deserve to win.

I don't mind debates on this matter as long as you refrain from insults, please give a reason and justify.

 

[ZoraxDoom]

The rebuilding phase started after the world cup.

When India did win it is because they played better and deserved to win, they were not necessarily a better team. I never said India are a bad team or they can't beat Pakistan, it is just that, after 1987 Pakistan at times have just been better or equal.

I give credit where its due, I certainly don't have a problem giving credit to India, if they do win the coming series then they have played better and deserve to win.

I don't mind debates on this matter as long as you refrain from insults, please give a reason and justify.

So, what u said was that even if a team plays better than an other dosen't mean they are better??? I am suprised you passed second grade.....or have you?

 

[sohum]

I don't mind debates on this matter as long as you refrain from insults, please give a reason and justify.

Fair enough.

I am suprised you passed second grade.....or have you?

Read his comment above...he is willing to have an intellectual debate and not a flame-party.

Its true that some teams can play better and beat better teams, as Nav-D mentioned. For example, Australia being beaten by Pakistan in the recent VB Series ODI doesn't make Pakistan the better team. However, I think this theory does not apply over the logn run--for example a series. One or two matches you can agree. I'll give the ODI series to India based on luck (in 2003). But I think at the test level Pakistan still have a lot to improve.

Talent has never been a problem with the Pakistan team. They are cursed with bad management. Pakistan is an example of bad utilization of resources. They have so many good players but the incessant chopping and changing ruins the team unity. I mean how many openers have they tried in the recent past? Salman Butt, Shahid Afridi, Yasir Hameed, Taufeeq Umar. That is when the days of Anwar and Sohail were so good because it was a fixed opening combo.

The team management basically needs to get their heads out of their asses and realize the potential in the country. Pakistan can easily become one of the top teams in the world (even the top team) if they only work the system properly. I have always been an avid supporter of the Pakistan team and certainly hope they are able to do that. As for the original debate, I believe India are a better test team and Pakistan are a better ODI team.

 

[jazz]

somebody actually thinks pakistan will win 3-0

 

[sachinisgod]

they did think so when Pakistan was losing badly to second string Western Australia team too... they voted 3-0 in favor of Pak against Australia... optimism and love know no bounds...

I think i agree with the predominant sentiment - India will take the tests and Pakistan should grab the odi series but the problem is that u never know when Pakistan fall from the top of the shelf and when India suddenly start huddling together and pull out a WC 2003 type performance...

 

[fardin]

they did think so when Pakistan was losing badly to second string Western Australia team too... they voted 3-0 in favor of Pak against Australia... optimism and love know no bounds...

I think i agree with the predominant sentiment - India will take the tests and Pakistan should grab the odi series but the problem is that u never know when Pakistan fall from the top of the shelf and when India suddenly start huddling together and pull out a WC 2003 type performance...

That will never happen sachin?Pakistan is doing well.They have bowled well againts australia and india wont be a problem for the seam bowler's.I think india will lose both test matches and odi's because pakistan is looking for a reveange.Remember what happen in pakistan when india toured pakistan,Pakistan lost both sereis test and odi's so you might see pakistan winning both or atleast one. :onpc

 

[Nav-D]

Its true that some teams can play better and beat better teams, as Nav-D mentioned. For example, Australia being beaten by Pakistan in the recent VB Series ODI doesn't make Pakistan the better team. However, I think this theory does not apply over the logn run--for example a series. One or two matches you can agree. I'll give the ODI series to India based on luck (in 2003). But I think at the test level Pakistan still have a lot to improve.

Talent has never been a problem with the Pakistan team. They are cursed with bad management. Pakistan is an example of bad utilization of resources. They have so many good players but the incessant chopping and changing ruins the team unity. I mean how many openers have they tried in the recent past? Salman Butt, Shahid Afridi, Yasir Hameed, Taufeeq Umar. That is when the days of Anwar and Sohail were so good because it was a fixed opening combo.

The team management basically needs to get their heads out of their asses and realize the potential in the country. Pakistan can easily become one of the top teams in the world (even the top team) if they only work the system properly. I have always been an avid supporter of the Pakistan team and certainly hope they are able to do that. As for the original debate, I believe India are a better test team and Pakistan are a better ODI team.

I agree fully, I expressed the same sentiment in the 'VB Series' thread, I believe the problem lies at the grass roots level and the structure of the management.

Basically Pakistani cricket needs to fully professionalise like England and India are in the process of doing.

 

[indiancricketer]

India is gonan win the odi's AND TESt

MAN THEY Won all our matches WITH OUT TENDULKAR MAN... hes in The line up hope fully and IF HE IS pakistan can show there best we will win the test and odi and i might be seenin da last odi if there is at New delhi ... people we lost to them 3 time striaght but not to Worry India has a good chance of winning just we collapsed and every good team collapes at times... we beat aussies they collapsed.... we beat pakistan they collapsed in that series... both teams are good in there own ways but i am gonan go with my fav team INDIA GO INDIA GO...

 

[sachinisgod]

That will never happen sachin?Pakistan is doing well.They have bowled well againts australia and india wont be a problem for the seam bowler's.I think india will lose both test matches and odi's because pakistan is looking for a reveange.Remember what happen in pakistan when india toured pakistan,Pakistan lost both sereis test and odi's so you might see pakistan winning both or atleast one. :onpc

now we know who voted for Pakistan 3-0...the result you are forecasting is for the series to be held in 2015...btw in the Pak V Aus thread u were shouting urself hoarse that the Samsung Cup and Series were fixed so where's the point of revenge? and we ain't serving match results in plate here in India... the only chance that Pak have of saving their face is to give India a thrashing in ODI's, which is very much possible when Bangladesh can do it in one match so can Pakistan in at least three matches...but tests wait till 2015...exaggerating but for u thats what works...

btw nice to have u back...make sure the stay is long...

 

[aditya123]

Originally Posted by Fardin in th VB Series thread

I think pakistan is looking very good with there bowling although lacking behind batting But they will sort it out some how.If pakistan continue this sort of form with there bowling I dont think india would have a slice of a chance even winning the test matche's I know I am off topic but pakistan is just too good for india.Keep that in mind that india did not even win one game againts in australia in vb series in 2003.To say the least it was disappointing.

I thought India beat Australia at the GABBA in th VB series and scored 304 runs in that game, cam close to winning th 1st ODI at the MCG and the SCG game whre lee hit a six of th penultimate delivery !
Fardin , the 1st round of matches of India against Australia in the 2004 VB series were more tight than the Pak Vs Aus games this year
The difference is that , India played well in the first set of matches and messed it up in the finals and Pak played poorly in the first half and competed well in the finals ! It all evens up !
What r u talking about when u say , India do not have a slice of a chance in tests against Pakistan , Don`t forget that u lost 3 zip to Australia and India drew the series 1-1 in Australia last year and even in the worst of their form lost just 2-1 to Australia this year and had a chance to draw the series 2-2 had the match at Chennai not been rained off !
I dont think that my post will have any effect on u bcoz posting without thinking has become ur identitiy on the forums , FArdin
We will know who the better team is in a few weeks time , till then stop posting wrong facts like `India did not beat Australia even once`
If u feel India does not have a slice of a chance in the tests bcoz pak performed gr8 vs the aussies have a look at this stat,
How about this for a head to head record against the world Champs --
India Vs Australia (Tests) in last 11 games(3 series)
Played :11
India Won :4
Aus Won : 4
Drawn : 3
India have won the same no of matches as Australia in the last 3 series ! Does any other team possess a record as good as this against the world Champs in tests where AUS are said to be invincible?
Pakistan have lost 10 out of the last 10 games agianst the Aussies (a gr8 success rate of 0%)
Many may say that what ever I have posted has no relevance with the topic but i felt a need to reply seeing one of Fardin`s stupid posts against the Indian team yet again !
I have to accept one thing for sure - `Fardin has the potential to change any topic to an Indo-Pak discussion` Well done!
I think most of the Indians on the forums have accepted the fact that Pak are marginally better than India in Odis but India r way ahead of them as far as tests are concernd and u can see why looking at the records of the 2 teams against Australia but none of the Pakistanis on th forums seem to agree that ! If India beat Pak in the test series they move ahead of England in the ICC rankings to the No.2 spot !
Fardin accept the fact that India is better than Pak in tests as most of the Indian members have accepted that Pak is better than us in ODIs

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[littlegenius90]

come on guys do u honestly think that pak can beat India in test series...
get real....last time pak beat India in test series was back in 1986-87....

 

[ZoraxDoom]

Fair enough.


Read his comment above...he is willing to have an intellectual debate and not a flame-party.

I apologize Nav-D

 

[nik]

i think india will win, pakistan have been a little scratchy in tests recently!

 

[SaiSrini]

That will never happen sachin?Pakistan is doing well.They have bowled well againts australia and india wont be a problem for the seam bowler's.I think india will lose both test matches and odi's because pakistan is looking for a reveange.Remember what happen in pakistan when india toured pakistan,Pakistan lost both sereis test and odi's so you might see pakistan winning both or atleast one. :onpc

hey fardin, what happened to u, man?? Pakistan winning both is not possible at all.. I know they would want to have revenge but it does not mean they will be successful in it.. India is not a foolish team to let them have it. If you go by the tests in the past year, India have been the better of Pakistan by a long way.. ODI's - well ODI's are one off games. We cant say who would win on that parrticular day. So, its a 50-50 scenario. But in test matches, India should easily put it across Pakistan!