Richie Benaud XI Draft

[Gaurav_7]

Well, then I'll have Rahul Dravid as my # 3.

My openers will be Gordon Greenidge and Desmond Haynes. What a great opening combo!

1. Gordon Greenidge
2. Desmond Haynes
3. Rahul Dravid
4. Brian Lara
5. Greg Chappell
6. Keith Miller
7. Sir Ian Botham
8.
9.
10. Wasim Akram
11. Malcolm Marshall

4 West Indians there. So, only a wk and a spinner remains to be picked, and I'm last there.

 

[sifter132]

no. his played majority of his innings at 4 or 5 shravi, in fact 28 more than he did at 3. so under the rules I should be allowed to pick him in my middle order.

I don't see what his innings at #5 have to do with it. You are picking him as a #4 right? The round as a whole is for players at #4 or #5, but I was under the impression that we are picking one for each spot, not 2 #4s, or 2 #5s. Right? If we started combining innings played at #4 and #5, then you are going to be losing a few guys that should still be classified as #3s.

But anyway, under the rules I think Hammond's a #4. He played 66 innings at #4 and 52 at #3. The difference is greater than the 10 innings leeway that was eventually decided, so I'd say he's technically a #4.

EDIT: I see Lara and Greg Chappell are both #4s technically. I dunno, I'm OK with that I guess. As long as you aren't messing with the border between the #3s and the #4s and #5s I'm happy.

Best allrounder fieldsman ever? No.

But a pretty damn good one? Yea.

Well surely Ponting would be on a very short list of best all-round fieldsmen: Learie Constantine (more based on legend than fact or footage), Roger Harper, AB De Villiers, Mark Waugh and Ponting would be the 5 I'd nominate first. Sobers, Herschelle Gibbs, Paul Collingwood and Roshan Mahanama a step behind. Most of the great ground fielders don't have his catching record eg. Jonty Rhodes, Andrew Symonds, Colin Bland. Most of the great slippers couldn't ground field like him.

Anyone I've missed?

Also, FINALLY somebody picks Shaun Pollock, thank you! I was wondering why everyone forgot about him. Great, honest player. One of my favorites growing up, for sure.

I thought somebody would pick Aubrey Faulkner as well.

I might have picked Aubrey if I wasn't first in the round - especially since he's one of those rare GOOD spinning all-rounders. And yeah Shaun Pollock is a very underrated guy, has a bowling average not far behind Allan Donald - and he could bat! It was also nice to see you select Tony Greig, cricket icon. To me, he's one of the most underrated players EVER. Has a great record in the short time he played, and was very talented. Everyone just thinks of his commentary now unfortunately.

 

[shravi]

At number 3 I have The Black Bradman, George Headley. He dominated attacks with style. Between the wars, the West Indies batting was weak an vulnerable. Amongst his lesser teammates, and indeed his great opponents, Headley shone and stood out like a diamond in the rough. He was the first to score a hundred in each innings of a Test at Lord's (1939). Clarrie Grimmett described Headley as the strongest on-side player he had ever bowled against. Sir Leonard Hutton, who saw him at his best in 1939, declared he had never seen a batsman play the ball later. In 22 matches (40 innings) he scored 2190 runs, averaginh 61 with a quite astounding conversion rate which meant he scored 10 centuries and 5 fifties. At number 3, where I am picking him, his record is even better. In 19 matches (32 innings) he scored 2064 runs at an average of 71 with 10 centuries and 4 fifties. He was chosen as Wisden Cricketer of the Year 1934. The war greatly cut short his career. Although he returned to Tests in 1948. injuries meant that he could not achieve his previous levels of success. Even so, he was chosen as West Indies captain in 1948 against England, the first black player to be appointed to the position, although a combination of injuries and politics meant he only led his team for one Test match. It is for no fault of his own that Headley played so few tests. However, even with the low number of tests he played, his talent and ability was obvious and he achieved more than enough in that short space of time to make it into my team. In fact, he would have made it into Richie's (was one of the 3 shortlisted alongside Wally and Bradman) if it wasn't for Bradman's sheer unmatched domination of the sport.

- Wisden Cricketer of the Year 1934

For my first middle order batsman I have Ken Barrington. Barrington was a run machine. He averaged 70 away from home in alien conditions and 51 at home on some of the most trying pitches a batsman could hope to come across. He made hundreds against all the Test teams of his era, but less than a third in England which partially accounts for his greater reputation abroad than at home. This proves that he was a highly skilled and talented batsman who could adapt to conditions which he didn't come across in England. Barrington's hundreds ensured that England only lost one Test in which he scored 100+, but also won eight, belaying his reputation as a match-saver rather than a match-winner. In fact, a fair few of these victories were by huge margins; four by an innings, one by 256 runs and three by 10, 9, and 8 wickets. Barrington twice made centuries in four successive Tests, against Pakistan and Indian in 1961-62 and Pakistan and the West Indies in 1967-68 and he was the first England batsmen to make a hundred on the six Test cricket grounds with one each at Old Trafford, Edgbaston, Headingley, Lords, Trent Bridge and the Oval. Barrington scored 6806 Test runs at an average (58.67) surpassed for England only by Herbert Sutcliffe.

- Wisden Cricketer of the Year 1960
- Walter Lawrence Trophy 1966

Joining him in the middle order is the great, and one of my favorites of all time, Graeme Pollock. Graeme Pollock was classed as the finest left handed batsman in cricket by Sir Donald Bradman himself and is regarded by many as South Africa's greatest cricketer. He was South Africa's Cricketer of the 20th Century and one of Wisden's Cricketers of the Year in 1966 and the Wisden Leading Cricketer in the World in 1967 and 1969. His test average is second only to Sir Donald Bradman. Though his career was cut short at 26, Graeme Pollock will still go down as one of the game's finest players. To have to play your last test at 26 and not know it was your last until years later having lived many a year in the false hope that cricket would come back to South Africa must have been devastating, especially considering how much more a batsman of his skill could have achieved. However In 23 tests and 43 innings he scored 2256 runs with 7 centuries and 11 fifties at an average of 61. In those 23 tests, he proved that he could step up to the big stage, and in fact, thrived on this pressure of having to perform against the world's best. His test average is 60.97 while his FC average is 54.67.

- Wisden Cricketer of the Year 1966

Sir Jack Hobbs
Sunil Gavaskar
George Headley
Jacques Kallis
Graeme Pollock (LHB)
Ken Barrington
7
Sir Richard Hadlee (LHB)
9
Dennis Lillee
Allan Donald

 

[ZoraxDoom]

Anyone I've missed?

Off the top of my head, guys like Ekanth Solkar, Mohammed Azharuddin, Mohammed Kaif, Yuvraj in his early days, guys like Warner/Raina/Kohli/Guptill today, Dilshan in his early days, Dwayne Bravo, Dwayne Smith, etc.

There have been so many phenomenal fielders, it's very hard to say Ponting's the best. He has the most balanced and allround fielding record because he's not only played the most, but because in a changing Australian side he has had the opportunity of fielding in several positions. Rhodes for South Africa could have been exceptional anywhere really, but he was just so good at backward point and at the time South Africa had a pretty settled slip cordon. Same with guys like Collingwood and Symonds. Colly actually did field at slip for a while and was pretty good, but given England had a lot of slippers he was often the outfielder or fielding in the circle.

It's hard to judge fielding like this, and I'd still be weary of putting Ponting on top. Had I gone and done a bit of a trawl through Cricinfo's database I would have come up with another dozen or so names of brilliant fielders who played ages ago or who may be playing today.

For me the answer will be Rhodes really. Can't take the older names as I haven't seen them, but I've seen Rhodes, he's remarkable. Great throw, great speed, great reflexes, and amazing anticipation. He could literally field anywhere.

It was also nice to see you select Tony Greig, cricket icon. To me, he's one of the most underrated players EVER. Has a great record in the short time he played, and was very talented. Everyone just thinks of his commentary now unfortunately.

I was tempted to go for Greig. But he wasn't really a full time spinner. It was a hard choice between him and Mankad at the end (once I eliminated Wilfred Rhodes)

 

[ZoraxDoom]

For my spinner I pick Shane Warne

All that needs to be said has been said about this legendary legspinner. Mesmerising to watch, his wickets came about as much due to his brilliant mind as due to his unmatched skill. Combinging pin point precison with massive turn, and the ability to vary flight and pace as he please, Warne was the pinnacle of leg spin bowling. It'll be a long time till cricket sees another like him.

As for keeper, I go for Andy Flower

Flower played 55 matches as wicket keeper in a weak Zimbabwe side, and scored 4404 runs at an average of 53.70, along with 151 dismissals behind the stumps. Highly underrated, Flower scored big runs against some of the best attacks in the world; averaging 70.75 against South Africa, 94.83 against India and over 40 against New Zealand, Pakistan and West Indies. The only dampners on his record are his sub-40 averages against Sri Lanka (38.9) and England (33.33) while he only had 1 match against Australia, managing 28 and 0. For his career he was the only batsman of Test quality, and indeed often the only player of Test quality, in a weak side, and usually carried the burden of the entire side.

A 50+ average in the 1990s-early 2000s is nothing to scoff at, along with being a very reliable presence behind the wickets and captaining the side.

He did play majority of his innings (82 out of 112) at number 5, averaging 54.89 there with 9 centuries. But for the sake of balance he gets bumped down to number 6 (where he averages 58.40 in 14 innings with 3 centuries).

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As for openers, Virender Sehwag and Arthur Morris.

Chaotic brutality from one end, calm elegance from the other. It'll hard to find two batsman more unlike each other than Sehwag and Morris, but that's probably what'll make them an ideal pair. A left hand/right hand combination, Morris looks to bat on and on, play each ball on it's merit and accumulate a big score with patience and elegance, while Viru takes every delivery as a challenge and looks to send it flying to the boundary. Definitely a delightful pair to watch.

With Morris, Mankad and Flower, I have 3 left handed batsman as well. And a left arm spinner.



Zorax's XI

1. Virender Sehwag
2. Arthur Morris
3. ------
4. Sachin Tendulkar
5. Steve Waugh (*)
6. Andy Flower (+)
7. Vinoo Mankad
8. Kapil Dev
9. Shane Warne
10. Curtly Ambrose
11. Glenn McGrath

I also have 4 Indians and 4 Aussies. Means my number 3 can't be from those countries.


@Shravi - shouldn't Kallis be batting at 6 or 7, and Barrington and Pollock at 4/5?

 

[shravi]

@Shravi - shouldn't Kallis be batting at 6 or 7, and Barrington and Pollock at 4/5?

It doesn't matter. We decided that you can shuffle 4-7 as you like as we (sifter and myself) said that they weren't as specialist as opening and number 3. This is why the round was renamed from "Number 4 & 5" to Middle Order Batsman where a batsman just had to play the majority of his innings between 4 and 7 instead of just 4-5 as it was previously.

 

[shravi]

When O'Reilly died, Bradman said that he was the greatest bowler he either faced or watched. He didn't turn the ball as much as his other Australian leg spinning competitor (not Warne) however almost all batsman, even the Don himself, have said that he was the more lethal of the two. He had the aggressiveness and hostility of a pace bowler. Also, he was the better of the two against the best competitor of his generation, England. While O'Reilly took 102 wkts @ 25.36 in 19 matches, his competitor took 106 @ 32.44 in 22 matches. Moreover, O'Reilly was one of the three spinners shortlisted for Richie's XI, alongside Warnie and a certain Pakistani. Over the course of his career, in 27 matches (48 innings), O'Reilly took 144 wickets at an average of 22.59. He had a miserly economy rate of 1.94 and had a strike rate of 69.6 with 8 four-fors, 11 five-fors and, 3WMs.

- Wisden Cricketer of the Year 1935
- Australian Cricket Hall of Fame 1996

Behind the stumps I have a keeper of the highest quality- Alan Knott. He was a truly spectacular keeper and his held in the highest regard by whoever talks about him. Nobody remembers a chance gone by at Knott's hands. He was also a gritty and determined batsman that put a high price on his wicket. He was also able to switch gears from a defensive to attacking mindset if the situation asked for it. In 1970, he was Wisden's Cricketer of the Year. County captain Colin Cowdrey said: "I think he is the most gifted and dedicated cricketer one could ever wish to play with, never satisfied with his performance and always seeking for a little more perfection." In 95 matches, he took an astounding 250 catches and made 19 stumpings. In 249 innings as a batsman he scored 4389 runs at an average of 33 with 5 centuries and 30 fifties.

- Wisden Cricketer of the Year 1970
- Walter Lawrence Trophy 1976

Sir Jack Hobbs
Sunil Gavaskar
George Headley
Jacques Kallis
Graeme Pollock (LHB)
Ken Barrington
+ Alan Knott
Sir Richard Hadlee (LHB)
Bill O'Reilly
Dennis Lillee
Allan Donald

 

[ZoraxDoom]

It doesn't matter. We decided that you can shuffle 4-7 as you like as we (sifter and myself) said that they weren't as specialist as opening and number 3. This is why the round was renamed from "Number 4 & 5" to Middle Order Batsman where a batsman just had to play the majority of his innings between 4 and 7 instead of just 4-5 as it was previously.

Oh right, I missed that part. Lol, you said I could change my pick, I guess it's too late now

Meh, Waugh's good. FTR I would have gone with Sachin + Viv otherwise.

 

[sifter132]

That's a nice list of fielders Zorax, and I'll give you Azharuddin, he should have been on my list, but to be fair to Ponting (and me ), most of those guys you've listed have barely played Test cricket, if at all (Warner). So to put them in the frame for all time greatest fielders seems a bit of a stretch. And yes you are right, Jonty probably would have been a great slipper, and yes, fortune (and some sustained good batting) has allowed Ponting to survive and field in more places over his career. But fortune plays a part in many things in cricket history... Anyway, how about I just say that Ponting has one of the most impressive fielding resumes in history. We all know how good he is/was.

And shravi what have you done? Headley, Barrington, Pollock? You've just picked the guys with the 3 highest averages haven't you? Yawn... Haha I considered Pollock as the leftie at #4 instead of Border, but I've been turned off projecting how great players might have been ever since Mike Hussey took his big average fall (and Ponting too I guess). We'll also have to see where a certain England #3 will end up, because his record after 20 Tests is very similar to Pollock's and Headley's. Still, there is certainly some talent in there, Pollock in particular gets raved about by those of his era. Barrington's the guy I was thinking of when I was talking about how combining the innings played at 4 and 5 would be a bit misleading. He's got an almost equal spread of innings between 3,4 and 5, and if you combined 4 and 5, then he'd be ruled out of the #3 spot, which is where he played his best. That's a very nice XI you've got there now...

Does anyone want to go around again and make a 2nd XI each? This draft went really fast once we all arrived Plus all our XIs look so imposing...we need some mortals We could just reverse the order in each round this time eg. I would pick first in fast bowlers and last in all-rounders.


EDIT: Oh and my spinner is definitely going to be Clarrie Grimmett and I've got 2 keepers that I've got in mind that I can't split, so user go ahead and make both your selections if you want to - it might make my decision easier

 

[shravi]

Haha, it was a choice between Weekes and Barrington. In the end I went for Barrington because he wasn't as dependent as Weekes on playing at home. In fact, he played better away from home. Other players I looked at were Inzi, Youhana/Yousuf, Younis, AB De Villiers, Walcott and a few others whose names I can't quite remember right now. Personally, I think ABDV is all class and he will soon be in consideration for teams like these, or at least by the end of his career. If not for the first team then maybe the third or fourth. I think Dale Steyn could easily make the first team if he keeps a fairly similar record for the rest of his career. That strike rate is just phenomenal. A true modern master.

I'd be interested in doing an under 40 (age) draft. I sometimes feel bad about not picking modern players in these drafts when they have such impressive records, especially because I've actually seen them play as opposed to the Hobbs, Hammonds and Huttons that I usually go for.

 

[sifter132]

Well we'll see if anyone wants to give it a go, while we've got a group going. I wouldn't mind trying something else, while I'm in the researching mood.

Anyway, I do have my keeper picked out now, was going to go something a bit more radical, but in the end I went for Ian Healy. So I'll give you all the full XI now, and add the final 4 summaries when I've got them done.

1 Sir Len Hutton
2 Herbert Sutcliffe
3 Ricky Ponting
4 Allan Border
5 Sir Viv Richards
6 Sir Garfield Sobers
7 Imran Khan (*)
8 Ian Healy (+)
9 Clarrie Grimmett
10 Fred Trueman
11 Sydney Barnes

Was just a matter of balancing Aussies and Englishmen...so 4 Aussies, 4 Poms, 2 Windies and a Paki to captain them.

 

[ZoraxDoom]

Personally, I think ABDV is all class and he will soon be in consideration for teams like these, or at least by the end of his career. If not for the first team then maybe the third or fourth. I think Dale Steyn could easily make the first team if he keeps a fairly similar record for the rest of his career. That strike rate is just phenomenal. A true modern master.

Yea same. In a few years their names should be up there. Amla too.

I'd like an under-40 draft.

Anyway, how about I just say that Ponting has one of the most impressive fielding resumes in history. We all know how good he is/was.

Yup, fair enough.

 

[Gaurav_7]

My wicket keeper will be Les Ames and spinner will be Derek Underwood.

1. Gordon Greenidge
2. Desmond Haynes
3. Rahul Dravid
4. Brian Lara (c)
5. Greg Chappell
6. Keith Miller
7. Sir Ian Botham
8. Les Ames (wk)
9. Derek Underwood
10. Wasim Akram
11. Malcolm Marshall

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Shravi, I'd have gone for George Headley instead of Dravid but, his less Tests made me pick Dravid. Nice pick though.

I'd like some draft too. Maybe a bit slower?

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And, yeah I still remember I have to do the writing. Sometime soon, hopefully.

 

[cricket_icon]

My pick for number 3, with Ricky and Rahul taken can only be one man (in the absence of Bradman):

Zaheer Abbas: Dubbed by the cricketing world as the "Asian Bradman" Abbas was one of the most elegant batsmen to ever grace a cricket field. His statistics are absolutely world class but do not quite do him justice. This is one of those cases where you must have watched him at his finest to fully understand the genius of such a great batsman...thank you youtube and google. Abbas is still the only Asian batsman to score over a 100 first class centuries, the hundreth coming in a Test. His highest score of 274 is the highest by anyone batting in their first test in England. Zaheer Abbas is one of the few bastmen who have battered bowling attacks all over the park and looked genial doing it, the others that come to mind are Sachin Tendulkar and Muhammad Yousuf...now that is spectacular company.
Tests 78
Runs 5062
Average 44.79
Highest Score 274
100s 12

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My final team:

1. Hanif Muhammad (Pak)
2. Matthew Hayden (Aus)
3. Zaheer Abbas (Pak)
4. Wally Hammond (Eng)
5. Javed Miandad (Pak)
6. Tony Greig (Eng)
7. Adam Gilchrist wk (Aus)
8. Shaun Pollock (SA)
9. Muttiah Muralitharan (SL)
10. Waqar Younis (Pak)
11. Courtney Walsh (WI)

----------

4 Pakistanis, 2 Australians, 2 Englishmen, a SA, SL and a WI.
2 openers who perfectly compliment each other, 3 and 4 who are two of the finest batsmen of their generation, a number 5 who is a tenacious street fighter and one of the best to ever wield a bat.
The allrounders are a sort of B list of great allrounders but Greig and Pollock, on their day, can definitely take apart any team with either their bowling or batting.
The greatest wicket keeper to ever play the game and the greatest spinner too.
Younis and Walsh, once again, would not normally be in my team, but by taking out Akram, Marshal, Lillee and McGrath, they definitely deserve their place.

 

[sifter132]

I'd be interested in doing an under 40 (age) draft. I sometimes feel bad about not picking modern players in these drafts when they have such impressive records, especially because I've actually seen them play as opposed to the Hobbs, Hammonds and Huttons that I usually go for.

Haha, yeah I know . It's hard to ignore the bargains though. I mean no one picked a fast bowler from before the 70s so I had a lot of history to pick through in that round. I actually tried to impose a limit on myself this time of only 5 players from before the 70s. I've got 6...And it could have been 7 - I was tossing up between Healy and Bert Oldfield for the Oldfield-Grimmett connection. But I'd already breached my limit...but Healy's fine, helps strengthen the tail a little more.

Anyway, I wrote some info up about Barnes and Grimmett. Haven't done Trueman or Healy yet, that'll have to wait.

Clarrie Grimmett

Tests: 37
Wkts: 216 - retired as leading wicket taker in cricket
Avg.: 24.21
S/R: 67.1
BB: 7/40 vs SA, Johannesburg, 1913.

Absolute workhorse of a legspinner, known for his long, probing spells and his unerring accuracy. This will be perfect for my XI, he can bowl long spells from one end (with Sobers to give him rest), while the 3 pacemen alternate downwind from the other. That was Grimmett's game, nothing too fancy, although he is given credit for being the first developer of the flipper. He was a late starter, debuting at 33 but made the most of his time in the team taking almost 6 wickets per match. Always bowled with his baggy green cap on. Made Bradman's best ever team (along with his teammate Bill O'Reilly), a great tribute from his teammate.

Sid Barnes

Tests: 27
Wkts: 189 - retired as leading wicket taker in cricket
Avg.: 16.43
S/R: 41.6
BB: 9/103 vs SA, Johannesburg, 1913.

Let's face it: you haven't seen him bowl, I haven't seen him bowl, we're just going on reputation when you pick a guy who retired when WW1 broke out. But what a reputation it is! In Wisden's 1963 edition (which celebrated 100 years of Wisden), Barnes was named one of only 6 "Giants of the Wisden Century" which included Jack Hobbs, Sir Donald Bradman, WG Grace, Victor Trumper and Tom Richardson). The famous cricket writer Neville Cardus wrote of why he included Barnes:

"Most cricketers and students of the game belonging to the period in which S.F. Barnes played were agreed that he was the bowler of the century. Australians as well as English voted him unanimously the greatest. Clem Hill, the famous Australian left-handed batsman, told me that on a perfect wicket Barnes could swing the new ball in and out very late, could spin from the ground, pitch on the leg stump and miss the off. Barnes had a splendid upright action, right arm straight over. He ran on easy strides, not a penn'orth of energy wasted. He fingered a cricket ball sensitively, like a violinist his fiddle. He always attacked."

So as you can see, it's not just a lot of wickets at a low average, it's what he did with the ball that impressed his rivals and teammates and the way he dominated his era that impresses historians. Richie Benaud voted him into his all time XI, based on the recommendations that he'd heard of his ability. He made the 2nd XI of the Cricinfo all-time XI recently as well. There's a great piece on him here if anyone wants more background on Barnesy: Sydney Barnes - cricket's living legend | Cricket Features | The Cricketer | ESPN Cricinfo