South Africa in England July-Sept 2012

Respect for what? I know his quality as a player but that's where it stops. His commentary throughout this series has been very pro-English and very anti SA for no reason. The eventual result showed he has absolutely no eye for quality - either that or, as I said, he's being paid to be nice to the Poms! He may as well be an Australian! This is not what I expected from an English broadcast! (Before the knives come out, I am an Englishman living abroad).

I've got a reason - how about he's talking to an ENGLISH audience?? Show me a set of commentators who aren't biased towards their own countrymen. They may do a good job of appearing fair, but most don't know the opposition players so well and just dribble on about their own country's players. Happens all over the world: Aus, SL, Eng, even SA from what I've heard :eek:
 
Sanath Jayasuriya for SL, I just run away when I hear his commentary.
 
Some twitter speculation about these ECB press conferences tomorrow. Strauss to resign seems to be the main rumour. KP hasn't had time to sit down with ECB yet so don't see how it can be about him.
 
More worrying imo is another leak from the dressing room.

Them bl**dy welsh vegetables, no wait you said l-e-a-k........................ :p

Not really surprised at the England defeat, you will lose more often than not if you don't take wickets or indeed all of them.

I wonder how long England will persist with the Patel-ster, his batting average of 32.08 is ok, albeit only one fifty in 16 innings and sustained by four not outs (actually 24 runs per innings), but his bowling average is 40. He hasn't taken a wicket in his last five ODIs, hasn't taken a wicket in half the innings he's bowled, and his ER is 5.52 which is pretty poor. In India his wickets cost 45.50, in UAE they cost 33.80 thanks mainly to a 3/26.

Whether his bowling is compensated by his batting is very debatable. Again I see none of our captains can resist some nothing overs from Bopara or a similar dobber, considering Patel was bowled out that left an expensive yet more wicket potent Bresnan and Anderson with overs unused. Bresnan may have been expensive, but the damage was done.

Our innings never really got off the ground, from 77/3 and 90/4 you're not likely to win many games against anyone but minnows.

barmyarmy said:
Strauss to resign seems to be the main rumour

Timing would be about right for that, can't see what else it would be, except maybe a higher level head rolling, coach or something. Maybe England don't fancy seeing Strauss out sweeping indiscriminantly next series.
 
I think Andy Flower must be the only person in cricket who thinks Strauss will score a run in India.
 
There is a danger he will stay on as a player, go to India and...not score any runs.

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Edit: there's now a Strauss thread so let's move discussion over there.
 
Let's not... Strauss blahblah etc yaddayadda offtopic.

I'm guessing if he'd known his retirement would lead to a whole thread on PC for him, he'd have done it sooner.
 
As a fan of Patel, I shall step in slightly, he shouldn't be batting 7 and I think he should only be in the side as a sixth bowler, ideally. He's good enough to bat in the top six. He's only played one game at six, where he got that superb 70 from 45 or so balls in India, quite why he hasn't had a chance higher up is a bit odd, especially as he's spent most of his career at 4/5. Essentially, it should be him or Bopara in the side. I think you should be able to get away with Bresnan at 7 in an ODI, if you're needing the lower order for anything other than useful hitting at the end of an innings then your top six is doing something wrong anyway. Slightly different balance required to the longer format.

Or we could drop him and pick another player to play out of the role they are accustomed to!

Whether he has a long term future in the side, I think that's up to England, it has to be him or Ravi and I think there'll be bigger doubts over Ravi in the batting stakes. I don't think he's likely to have a long career, he's got the potential but I don't think as a frontline bowler he is ever going to be a long part of the team.
 
As a fan of Patel, I shall step in slightly, he shouldn't be batting 7 and I think he should only be in the side as a sixth bowler, ideally. He's good enough to bat in the top six. He's only played one game at six, where he got that superb 70 from 45 or so balls in India, quite why he hasn't had a chance higher up is a bit odd, especially as he's spent most of his career at 4/5.

Fair enough to question how he's been used, I think it is likely that he is seen as an "all-rounder" solution and so is played lower down the order. With the keeper picked for batting more than for his keeping, and five batsmen, they must see more sense in him batting seven than the keeper or batsmen.

Who would you put down at seven instead? Kieswetter is about the likeliest to drop down the order.

You can't really draw a conclusion from a 70no batting at six, especially as England racked up 298/4 and were 195/4 when he came in. India got home by five wickets, only two batsmen from either side failed to make double figures and 24 was the next lowest score thereafter. He did score them off 43 balls, but since only one double figures batsman scored at an SR under 82 then we can safely say it wasn't the toughest pitch to bat on.

There's no point playing him as a sixth bowler, we need a fifth bowler and if he doesn't grab that role, which he isn't, then he'd have to displace a batsman.

Essentially, it should be him or Bopara in the side. I think you should be able to get away with Bresnan at 7 in an ODI, if you're needing the lower order for anything other than useful hitting at the end of an innings then your top six is doing something wrong anyway. Slightly different balance required to the longer format.

While the seven shouldn't be needed to make fifties and hundreds all that often, you can be in a situation five down needing more than brief cameos. ODIs are as much about partnerships as they are individual performances, I'm not sure I'd want either Bresnan or Broad at seven, prefer Swann or a truer all-rounder.

How deep your batting goes can also impact on the top order, how aggressive they may be being different if the seven and eight are say a Klusener and a Boucher as opposed to a Bresnan and a Broad. They may rein it in a bit to make sure the lower order aren't having to do too much batting, but if the lower order are capable then they'll have freer licence.

I'm sure England are happier with Patel batting seven than if it were Bresnan, they won't be as happy about his bowling.

Whether he has a long term future in the side, I think that's up to England, it has to be him or Ravi and I think there'll be bigger doubts over Ravi in the batting stakes. I don't think he's likely to have a long career, he's got the potential but I don't think as a frontline bowler he is ever going to be a long part of the team.

It isn't an "either/or" scenario though, maybe England just need to give younger players a go. What happened to that Stokes fella? He obviously has bowling and batting ability, even if he hasn't been able to bowl, or bowled, that much. England want to do well in the next World Cup now is the time to be getting players in the side and trying them.

Players like Wright (46), Yardy (28) and Patel (28) will accumulate ODIs and be spat out, never really amounting to much because England won't shape the team around them and they'll never be able to fill the all-rounder role England envisage them filling. It's like the plethora of keepers who've been played as pinch-hitters, trying to make players into something they're not. Most comparable football one I can think of right now is LFC fan(s) suggesting Downing as a left-back. Either play him in his usual role, or don't pick him.

Patel may be a handy bowler, but not good enough most of the time. England will need him to do more with the ball, they'll never see him as a batsman who can bowl but isn't in the side for it. He'd have more hope if he didn't bowl at all, but he does. The one thing in Patel's favour is I'm not sure England are brave enough to look elsewhere so he may be a default. There is a long time between now and the World Cup though so England should be brave. If he doesn't have a good ODI series in India I'm guessing England may move on, I think they will persist with him that long unless he has a shocker this series.
 
I've got a reason - how about he's talking to an ENGLISH audience?? Show me a set of commentators who aren't biased towards their own countrymen. They may do a good job of appearing fair, but most don't know the opposition players so well and just dribble on about their own country's players. Happens all over the world: Aus, SL, Eng, even SA from what I've heard :eek:

I'm sure he was meant to be there as a neutral commentator. Is he English? And it wasn't an exclusively ENGLISH audience idiot! Where do you think I was? Good grief, a South African watching an ODI that involves us in our own contry? Unheard of!
 
Are you not aware that Holding does every England series and has done for years. A bit like Mark Nicholas it's tough for them not to get somewhat supportive.
 

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