Damn it actually hurts me, but I agree with zMario on the Sachin stuff. Indians have blown Sachin completely out of proportion. Yes he is a terrific batsmen and makes it into any World XI side, but the way he is treated like some sort of deity is rather silly. I would also say, Lara, KP and Ponting are all much better than him
You think Ponting exhibits better sportsmanship than Sachin?
sohummisra added 27 Minutes and 9 Seconds later...
What the hell? You deleted the dang youtube videos, go watch them. How the hell are you denying something on TV?! You still have access to them, and yet you're denying it even happened?!!
Blind worship at its best!
The very reason this discussion is even continuing is because I did see them. Besides, your response has nothing to do with what I said. What part of my comment are you responding to? This is what I said: "If that is what he did, I can assure you that he would have been fined, as players of all reputations have been fined when showing dissent at an umpire's decision. Hence, it is pretty obvious to me that you are seeing what you want to believe, and not what has actually occurred." Are you arguing that players have not been fined at showing dissent at an umpire's decision? If Sachin was indeed showing dissent, then I argue that he would definitely have been fined. And hence my conclusion follows. In the future, why don't you actually read what you're responding to.
Actually Sachin pointing his bat to the umpire is something that I've seen since 2005. You're making assumptions on your part that I'm only referring to the India-Sri Lankan series which isn't true at all... Yes, he did it there, but he's done it in so many other games after 2005
I'm not the one making assumptions. You're the one who has only brought up examples from this series. I'm only drawing conclusions based on what has been presented to me.
And I'm not sure what doesn't make sense. What do you mean if the video footage isn't enough for the decision, the batsman should be out? If a player is given not out, and there isn't enough conclusive evidence to give him out, then he's not out. Not sure what world you're living in..
What I meant to say is that the third umpire is under no pressure since they can only make a decision based on the video footage. It's not a case of having to make a split-second decision.
The fact is, he should not have behaved like an immature child in that particular incident.
Which one? The "showing his index finger" from the dressing room incident? I agree that he probably shouldn't have done that but that is hardly enough evidence to tarnish his whole reputation. Or the "pointing at his bat" which I was unable to see from any footage your provided.
His whole career isn't into any disrepute. He's going to have nearly the entire population of India saying he's the greatest sportsman to have ever lived (that is a bit extreme, but you get the idea).
You're the one with a one-item agenda to prove that Sachin is a poor sportsman. So if people were to believe you, then it would indeed disrepute his career. There are solid reasons why Sachin will be hailed as a great, both on and off the field--reasons that you have continued to ignore and hence there is no point in reiterating them.
However, one's credibility can be doubted with such incidents. This isn't just one incident, sohum. There is no room in this sport for people who try to change the umpire's decision by waving their bat at them when they clearly did not edge it.
There was no "clearly did not edge it" kind of thing happening. If you happened to see the replay, it was a pad-bad vs. bat-pad issue. I'm not sure if you've every played leather-ball cricket, but it is quite easy to mistake the order in which one happens, especially if your bat also hits the ground around the same time. And your whole "change the umpire's decision by waving their bat at them" is meaningless, since it got referred to the 3rd umpire anyway, so there was no real issue of the batsman's opinion getting in the way of the decision-making.
Thats where the umpire's job becomes more difficult. #1 - he has to decide whether the batsman is out or not, and #2, the umpire begins to doubt what they saw, and might make a different decision than the one they would have had Sachin (or any other batsman) just stood there, and waited for the decision like they are suppoused to.
Sure, "waving the bat around" (which I'm still to see) is going to hurt the umpire's decision-making skills, but I think umpires are above that. Batsmen all around the world have pointed at their bats in close calls. In fact, that is one of the surest events preceding an event where the batsman shows dissent to the umpires decision. It's not as if Sachin is the only player to do this, and hence it is just on to single him out.
Yes, the specific examples are from one series. Do you want some incidents from 2005 to present time? I'll give them to you, if you seriously want them.
Sure, and while you're at it, why don't you compare his behavior to his contemporaries. Because there is no point in measuring something if you don't have any idea as to the semantic meaning of the values you measure.
Also, I don't see how the third umpire referrals have ANYTHING to do with Sachin trying to fool the umpire on field. If Sachin is so sure that he's not out, and he's given, then he stands there, lets the umpire make the decision, and then hold up a T.
Sachin was not trying to "fool" the umpire on field. Let's analyze the three examples you provided by that criteria:
(1) Sachin shows the "index finger" from the dressing room
after the decision has been made by the
third umpire.
First analysis is that it has nothing to do with the on-field umpire. Second analysis is that it is irrelevant in any way to any on-field decision-making since the umpire is not going to turn around and look at Sachin in the dressing room before giving someone out.
(2) Sachin sweeps, edges and waits for the umpire to make the decision. As it happens, Jayawardene asks for the referral and he is found to have edged it.
This is the case of the batsman simply holding his ground. Tendulkar has not made any motions as to whether he had hit the ball or not. Hence, he was not "fooling the on-field umpire". In fact, in the days without referral technology, this used to happen 3-4 times a day, especially in the subcontinent with bat-pad catches. If anything, this example destroys your argument of fooling the umpire since Tendulkar did not attempt to divulge any extra information to the umpire.
(3) Sachin plays the ball, and is adjudged to be out LBW. He believes he nicked the ball before it hit his pad (compared to what actually happened--it was pad-bat) and hence asks for the referral, which is turned down.
Again, there is no attempt to fool the on-field umpire. If there were no referrals, we would not be having this discussion, since Sachin would be walking off, since you cannot overturn the umpire's decision. If Sachin had shown dissent, he would have been fined, as well.
In summary, your whole argument holds no water from the "fooling the on-field umpire" point of view. The only part I can agree with you is that he shouldn't have been divulging his point of view from the dressing room on Sehwag's dismissal. Apart from that, all I can see is a bit of intense cricket. I've seen far worse examples of batsmen pointing at their bat than what happened in this series.
One final example to show why you've got it all wrong. If indeed Sachin had done all these things as you see them through your eyes, this series would have been quite controversial. In at least one case, Sachin would have been fined because he would be overruling the authority of the umpires. As it happened, this series was relatively straightforward from a controversy point of view, and hence that proves once and for all that your argument is unproven.
NOT show his bat to the umpire and make the umpire doubt his own instincts / eyesight.
Argument proved wrong in all aspects.
Also, in the future, please don't do the "replies in bold" nonsense. It is so much harder to quote and decimate each one of your points.
