The End Of Australian Dominance?

[vaibhav mehta]

bradman played in an era where there were few teams playing and there
were genuine medium pacers not fast bowlers .also his batting technique if
you see some old footage is not that great.

:
Great cricketing Knowledge...
Have you ever seen that Footage???
Because once wise man has said that Badman is not a case for Debate..
All cricket world has excepted him as a Great Sir Don Bradman..

Take a Chill pill...

 

[sohum]

Besides, Tendulkar isn't a once in a generation player. Many other players in his generation are nearly and if not as brilliant a players. It's not a slight on him at all, it's just fact.

I don't think people are making the argument that Tendulkar is a once-in-a-generation player from a statistical point of view. Here are a few reasons that Tendulkar is a once in a generation player:

1. Debuted at the age of 16.
2. Has played cricket for almost 20 years.

No one else, to my immediate knowledge, has done both of those and still been one of the top players in the game. He may end up with a lower run aggregate than Ponting and a lower high score than Lara but you have to give him some credit for being able to survive and adapt through at least 2 generations of cricket (and moving on to his third when most are in their first or second) and being successful in each generation. If he plays Test cricket for another couple of seasons, he will also probably go on to be the most capped cricketer in Test matches in the world.

Probably the only person on this sort of same level in the world is Steve Waugh.

 

[Animator!]

Ricky Ponting was in the Australian National Academy and was hooking 90mph bowling machine balls of his nose for fun at 15. Just because he didn't debut at 16 isn't a talking point of Tendulkar's ability. It's more of a talking point of the Indian team of the times strength and protocall in Indian cricket.

 

[vaibhav mehta]

But Still there are lots of things that put Sachin Tendulkar ahead of Ponting..

For Example,Pressure...
Ponting always comes after strong opening partnership of Hayden and Gilly...He joins either Gilly or Hayden who play aggressive with him...Ponting always has someone behind him who take care of innings like Bevan,Martyn,Hussey,Clarke,Symonds...
Estimate the Pressure on tendulkar when He every time opens the Inning..After 1996 world cup there were number of Matches where Sachin has played well and India have won,when Sachin Fails whole team have collapsed..

Sachin has always played under 100 times more pressure than Ponting specially in India on Home Grounds..

 

[Therbs]

Out of Lara, Sachin and Ponting I rate Lara then Sachin then Ponting. By the end of his career Ponting may well move up but I want to see him dominate an away series.

 

[aussie_ben91]

As this page shows, Ponting's average hasn't been 60 or above since his second test match. He did touch 59.99 in his 107th match. Rahul Dravid came pretty close as well, averaging 58.75 after 104 matches. Sachin Tendulkar, too, got to 58.46 after 103. So there's just a run and a half between the three of them, which is really negligible, especially when there is plenty of other evidence to suggest that Ponting is a great batsman.

Nope, you are wrong.

That page suggests his averages after every MATCH not INNINGS.

The statistics on the old format had after every innings.

After Ponting scored 142 against England in the 2nd Test in the Ashes 2006/07, his batting average was just over 60. It's dipped down to 59.99 after he scored 49 in the second innings.

There you go, I'm right and you're wrong.

But Still there are lots of things that put Sachin Tendulkar ahead of Ponting..

For Example,Pressure...
Ponting always comes after strong opening partnership of Hayden and Gilly...He joins either Gilly or Hayden who play aggressive with him...Ponting always has someone behind him who take care of innings like Bevan,Martyn,Hussey,Clarke,Symonds...
Estimate the Pressure on tendulkar when He every time opens the Inning..After 1996 world cup there were number of Matches where Sachin has played well and India have won,when Sachin Fails whole team have collapsed..

Sachin has always played under 100 times more pressure than Ponting specially in India on Home Grounds..

Tendulkar has had Dravid, Ganguly, Laxman & Sehwag.

Ponting also made his highest Test score of 257 on the MCG which is probably the biggest stadium in world cricket.

 

[icyman]

We are moving away from the topic-This is not a Tendulkar v Ponting thread.

 

[sohum]

There you go, I'm right and you're wrong.

About time.

Tendulkar has had Dravid, Ganguly, Laxman & Sehwag.

That just adds to my point. These are only the players he's had in the current generation. The one before this he had Azharuddin and maybe a couple other half-decent players. And the one before that... well it's too long ago.

Ricky Ponting was in the Australian National Academy and was hooking 90mph bowling machine balls of his nose for fun at 15. Just because he didn't debut at 16 isn't a talking point of Tendulkar's ability. It's more of a talking point of the Indian team of the times strength and protocall in Indian cricket.

Umm... you can equate hooking a bowling machine to playing at the highest level and succeeding if you want, but I won't. The very fact that he did it makes him once in a generation, regardless of what you hypothesize would have happened in other circumstances. I could well hypothesize that if Male X from India had done the dirty-nasty with Female Y in India three decades back then he would have been better than the Don itself. Of course, I would end up looking quite silly.

Out of Lara, Sachin and Ponting I rate Lara then Sachin then Ponting. By the end of his career Ponting may well move up but I want to see him dominate an away series.

I rate them equally:

Lara is probably one of the best players in the game that make it count once they are in. He has shown his ability to really get "in" time and time again.

Ponting is one of the best run-scorers in the world. Even though his technique is not pretty sometimes, he gets it done and that's what helps his team win.

Tendulkar is probably the best strokemaker of his generation. He may not have the patience of Lara or the sheer run-making ability of Ponting but his shots are absolutely delicious to watch and are entertainment in and of itself.

 

[King Pietersen]

I think Tendulkar's the best player personally. He's been playing international cricket since the age of 16, and if that doesn't make him a once in a generation player I don't know what does. He has heap loads of hundreds, he's seen as a god in India and he's been consistently brilliant for around 20 years. Ponting and Lara are great players, but Tendulkar is in a different league for me. He's the most technically perfect player i've ever seen and I feel that he's going to be remembered in a greater stead than Ponting in the future. Tendulkar is the Bradman of his generation.

 

[manee]

Sachin Tendulkar is the slightly better Test batsman. Tendulkar has achieved more in his career than Ponting and he owes a sharp decline combined with prolonged tennis elbow to his unflattering career statistics. Looking at the LG ICC rankings comparison, it would seem that Ricky Ponting is the more consistent performer, on a constant rise. However, a closer look would show that Ricky Ponting was not a great batsman in the early years of his career, whereas Tendulkar took off quite quickly, despite is early debut.

Ricky Ponting was not fantastic in the 1990s. The 1990s was the final period before a mass flattening out of pitches around the 2001/2 era. It also coincided with the greatest era of fast bowlers, imo. Waqar, Wasim, Pollock, Donald, Gough, Mcgrath...the list goes on. Whereas Tendulkar succeeded in scaling the heights in the toughest of periods, Ricky Ponting sunk into mediocraty.

However, on the other hand, Tendulkar failed to cash in when the standard of bowlers fell and the pitches flattened in the 2000s. This was a decline of epic proportions combined with tennis elbow injuries - as mentioned earlier. I cannot fully explain, nor condone Tendulkar's drop in form. Tendulkar has played longer than Ponting and amassed 11782 Test runs compared to Ricky Ponting's 9776 - I believe that having played more Tests, a decline of sorts which has been absent in Ponting's career can be explained by assuming that one will consume Ponting, later in his career too. Even if it doesn't, I still feel that Tendulkar's success at a higher level for an entire decade exceeds Ponting's slightly greater domination at a lower level for a similar amount of time.

The age old arguement is also that Ponting is home in Australia and so is better than Tendulkar who bats on the 'paata' tracks of India. However, Ponting has shown himself distinctly useless in India; with 172 runs at 12.28, compared to Tendulkar's 5096 at 54.95. Conversely, both have succeeded in Australia, proving that Australia is ideal for both batsman - this could partially explain Ponting's superior statistics too; Tendulkar with 1522 runs at 58.33 and Ponting with 5891 at 62.67.

I could bore you with saying that Ponting has had a better line up and Tendulkar has had pressure, etc...but I don't think that it is necessary to outline such well known intangibles.

 

[Cricketman]

Ricky Ponting was in the Australian National Academy and was hooking 90mph bowling machine balls of his nose for fun at 15. Just because he didn't debut at 16 isn't a talking point of Tendulkar's ability. It's more of a talking point of the Indian team of the times strength and protocall in Indian cricket.

While Ponting was in some academy Tendulkar was right there with all the pressure on him and Waqar and Wasim charging in to rip him apart.

 

[Will_NA]

How do you measure pressure?

 

[vaibhav mehta]

Its the difference between Mental Status of Player in two different Condition.
Rather I say action potential.
For Example suppose Ponting is playing against Bangladesh then his adrenalin secretion would less than it would against India.Against bangladesh his mental Status would more relax then it would against India.
In Cricketing language He would be more worried about his wicket against India then Bangladesh..

 

[icyman]

While Ponting was in some academy Tendulkar was right there with all the pressure on him and Waqar and Wasim charging in to rip him apart.

So what ? Pontin was probably in the best domestic facility in thw world. And Tendulakr was under no sort of pressure then.He got out for a duck in his first match.

Its the difference between Mental Status of Player in two different Condition.
Rather I say action potential.
For Example suppose Ponting is playing against Bangladesh then his adrenalin secretion would less than it would against India.Against bangladesh his mental Status would more relax then it would against India.
In Cricketing language He would be more worried about his wicket against India then Bangladesh..

Ponting would be ore worried about his wicket against Bangla than India.

 

[vaibhav mehta]

Really??