The Quotea Draft

[Sherlock Holmes]

Philander is definitely not a black cricketer and should not be considered as one. An ATG who was on my radar but not surprised to see him picked up so early.

I shall pick Clive Rice. In the absence of Kallis, he is the next best replacement player and is arguably much better than Kallis with the ball at the expense of being worse with the bat. At his peak, he was very capable of taking the new ball and also batting to score a century. A very versatile player who shall add much to the team balance. He shall bat at five in the team for now.

@Aislabie to continue.

Playing Cricket While Black

 

[Bevab]

Playing Cricket While Black

The same article also lists Hashim Amla under that category which is not true. The reason that several media outfits get them mixed up is that the players of color have to be six in the lineup with two of them being black cricketers in that group. Philander is most certainly not a black cricketer.

If you do want a source though, this article and this lists Philander as a player of color and in every discussion I've seen regarding quotas over the last two years, Philander has never been mentioned as a black cricketer. If he were to be one, that would be news to me and also the CSA considering how many games Bavuma has played!

EDIT : I appreciate that article though. Shows how hypocritical some of the fans and pundits are in general. My favourite is the annual IPL fan who takes a look at the South African side, sees Chris Morris missing and asks why he isn't there, then looks at Phehlukwayo's name and accuses the latter of being a quota pick and the reason why South African cricket is in the doldrums with talents like Morris being ostracized when in reality the latter has shown a lot more potential and has been more consistent than the former with a better statistical record too! Shows how much bias people in general have when they judge cricketers of other races more harshly even when a simple look on cricinfo will tell them how untrue their view is.

 

[Aislabie]

Should he be considered as black?

No - he is officially "Cape Coloured"

Obviously it's a bit tricky going with all the different categories, but in South Africa "black" and "Black African" are two different things. Just from the fact we're having this conversation, there's clearly still a lot of work to do

 

[Aislabie]

Mike Procter

Test stats: 226 runs @ 25.11 (best 48) and 41 wickets @ 15.02 (1 5WI, best 6/73) in 7 matches
First-class stats: 21,936 runs @ 36.01 (48 centuries, best 254) and 1,417 wickets @ 19.53 (70 5WI, best 9/71) in 401 matches

I know I should make a start on my quotas, but I'm going to be sticking with Mike Procter for the time being. Essentially, he's like Richard Hadlee, if Richard Hadlee was South African and probably a bit better at cricket. Of course, Procter's Test career ended with South Africa's exclusion from Test cricket. His first-class career continued until 1983 though, with a brief epilogue in 1988 and '89 as a grey-haired spinner for his native Natal. That one didn't work out so well, but didn't affect his legacy whatsoever.

1.
2.
3. Jacques Kallis
4.
5.
6.
7. Mike Procter
8.
9.
10.
11.

@qpeedore

 

[blockerdave]

Philander is definitely not a black cricketer and should not be considered as one. An ATG who was on my radar but not surprised to see him picked up so early.

I shall pick Clive Rice. In the absence of Kallis, he is the next best replacement player and is arguably much better than Kallis with the ball at the expense of being worse with the bat. At his peak, he was very capable of taking the new ball and also batting to score a century. A very versatile player who shall add much to the team balance. He shall bat at five in the team for now.

@Aislabie to continue.

“Worse” is not a word to use in relation to Mr Rice. He was a fantastic batsman.[DOUBLEPOST=1606330825][/DOUBLEPOST]

No - he is officially "Cape Coloured"

Obviously it's a bit tricky going with all the different categories, but in South Africa "black" and "Black African" are two different things. Just from the fact we're having this conversation, there's clearly still a lot of work to do

I forgot the exact anecdote, but there’s a story of Basil D’Oliveira drinking with a West Indian cricketer who said “Bas, we’d all call you white...”

 

[Aislabie]

I forgot the exact anecdote, but there’s a story of Basil D’Oliveira drinking with a West Indian cricketer who said “Bas, we’d all call you white...”

Sounds about right. In any fair and just world, none of these labels would have the slightest need to exist.

I should probably emphasise that actually - this draft isn't about endorsing labelling players or selecting teams based on players' heritage, it's just about trying to give proper attention to South African cricketers past and present who are otherwise left in the margins and endnotes of their nation's cricketing history, and who still have to fight the perception that the colour of their skin delegitimises their achievements even in the present day.

I was talking about it with a friend* recently and they said "well there's only one reason Lesiba Ngoepe is still a professional cricketer." And while Ngoepe's career stats aren't impressive, it's a lot more complex than that. Firstly, the quota system in South Africa does result in players being promoted faster than they might otherwise have expected - Ngoepe was definitely not fully prepared when he started playing franchise cricket. But he's averaged over 50 in the last year across formats and is maturing into a seriously good cricketer.

And if the counter-argument is that he still should have been dropped before hitting that vein of form, then the answer to my friend*'s comment is that the reason Ngoepe remained a professional cricketer through that time is that there still isn't nearly equal investment into infrastructure and coaching in the black South African community, so there aren't any more prepared black batsmen coming through to challenge Ngoepe for his place.

The equivalent would be having to meet a quota of three UK state-educated cricketers in every County Championship playing XI. Many counties wouldn't be able to do that because there's not enough infrastructure or coaching in British state schools.

So yeah, once again for those who got caught up in my aside - this draft is in no way intended to endorse categorising people on the basis of their heritage.

 

[qpeedore]

Oh yes, Bas would definitely be considered white in the Caribbean. And I definitely agree with @Bevab, the quota players in my team will be picked for what they can add to the team, not just to pad out the numbers.

But my next pick will be a non-quota player, Graeme Smith. His captaincy was simple but effective, and he more than often led from the front with the batting performances to back it up. A Test average of 48.25 is something any player would want to have at the end of a 12-year career.

@Dale88

 

[Aislabie]

But my next pick will be a non-quota player, Graeme Smith. His captaincy was simple but effective, and he more than often led from the front with the batting performances to back it up. A Test average of 48.25 is something any player would want to have at the end of a 12-year career.

Fantastic pick; every team needs a good captain and a strong opening batsman.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Oh yes, Bas would definitely be considered white in the Caribbean. And I definitely agree with @Bevab, the quota players in my team will be picked for what they can add to the team, not just to pad out the numbers.

But my next pick will be a non-quota player, Graeme Smith. His captaincy was simple but effective, and he more than often led from the front with the batting performances to back it up. A Test average of 48.25 is something any player would want to have at the end of a 12-year career.

@Dale88

Fantastic pick; every team needs a good captain and a strong opening batsman.

Had I been the last to pick in round 1 and AbD, Steyn would have gone, Smith would be my first pick.

Captaining a side for more than 100 tests isn't a joke. Many dont even play more than 100 tests. Some like Azhar get stuck on 99 forever. Amused to see Smith come so late.

 

[Ed Smith]

Not really a great deal that needs to be said here...

4.Graeme Pollock
11.Makhaya Ntini

@blockerdave

 

[blockerdave]

Who’s the Black Bradman? A lot of people would have said George Headley, the West Indian great.

But if you were a black South African at roughly the same time, you’d have said “Frank Roro” a fantastic batsman in the “Bantu” leagues who scored over 20 centuries in a league and on pitches where a ton was a rare and precious feat indeed.

I’d have picked Frank Roro even if there was no quota to consider.

Over to @Yash.

 

[Yash.]

Graham Aubrey Faulkner

An excellent batsman, an even better spinner. Faulkner was one of the greatest all rounders to grace the game of cricket, and rightfully so, as his best performances included a double century against Australia in Melbourne, a 6-17 in Leeds, and one of the best, a 6-64, as a follow up to his 154 in a Test against the Australians.

Back to you @blockerdave

 

[Aislabie]

Fun statistic: when the ICC applied their rankings formula retrospectively across cricket history, Faulkner was the only player to be ranked as both a world number one Test bowler and a world number one Test batsman. Seriously good cricketer who I'd have changed my plans to make room for had he remained available

 

[blockerdave]

Well I’m not risking Barry Richards not being available later, having already lost Rice, Pollock and Procter.

@Dale88 it’s yours


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EDIT - adding my side to keep me updated.

1. Barry Richards
2. -
3. -
4. Frank Roro (q,b)
5. Basil D'Oliveira (q,o)
6. -
7. -
8. -
9. -
10. -
11. -

 

[Ed Smith]

Cant pick a South African side and not include this bowling action



4.Graeme Pollock
10.Paul Adams
11.Makhaya Ntini

@qpeedore