West Indies Tour of England - May to June 2012

[WestIndian]

Randy West Indies cricket problems starts and ends with the WICB, I totally agree. You name a team that would cause shock waves in England if it would to happen, but it will not so am over it. Shillingford is ordinary back here in Dominica he took 10 wickets on a ground he plays all his cricket, out the he looks like he waiting for the batsmen to make the error rather than forcing the error with his bowling.

Now Gibson is the coach, what I would like the English guys in here is to give us some details as to to numbers making up the England team management/coaching and then we can look at West Indies and make the comparison. I say this because we need to isolate part of the problems affecting our cricket. Did you see how Powell got out in the 2nd inning? Poor guy stroke going in one direction, bat going in another direction away from the body and of course ball was directed into him. Now tell me Gibson was a bowler and bowling coach, do you seriously see Gibson being able to correct these weaknesses in our your batsmen? Who is our batting coach? Who is our bowling coach? What about fielding? Do I need to go on?

 

[Jigsawpuzzell]

The Windies are improving but their second innings has highlighted a lack of consistency big time. They were competitive in the first innings and I was impressed with Rampaul and Roach (no-balls aside). I hope the Windies build, because with their history, cricket needs a competitive West Indies outfit and their way of playing cricket has always been refreshing.

 

[westindies2007]

Now Gibson is the coach, what I would like the English guys in here is to give us some details as to to numbers making up the England team management/coaching and then we can look at West Indies and make the comparison. I say this because we need to isolate part of the problems affecting our cricket. Did you see how Powell got out in the 2nd inning? Poor guy stroke going in one direction, bat going in another direction away from the body and of course ball was directed into him. Now tell me Gibson was a bowler and bowling coach, do you seriously see Gibson being able to correct these weaknesses in our your batsmen? Who is our batting coach? Who is our bowling coach? What about fielding? Do I need to go on?

unfortunely we just got a Batting consulted in I think its Desmond Hayes.
ep I keep forgetting Gibson is a Bowling coach, this his first time as a Full Coach. dont think we Got any sort of coach beside one coach all de time and his assistant
To be honest why dont WICB try to get our Legand involved in Cricket? like what Stanford did, he brought back all de Legands.

the likes of Viv Richard, Sobers, Amborse, Walsh, Lara, etc.
I think it was during C Loyd time as West Indies Manager , i think We had spoiled the Legand at that time and push them away from WI, which later on C Loyd retire from been West Indies Manager, during the Strike of Lara's Team. because WICB fault again didn want to pay the Player or so I think at that point was really our down fall, I think that was late 90's.

WICB to me should be run by people who know cricket and not by people who wanna get Rich and Famous.

My Focus Now Change to ODI, dont care bout tommorow now Nor the final Test even if we win and i highly doubt.
Waiting for the ODI. Hoping and Praying. Narine, Gayle and Pollard Makes it. and i forgot Bravo lol.

HOPEFULLY this team can beat england in T20 and ODI.
Gayle, Dr Smith, Dywane Bravo, K Pollard, M Samuels, D Ramdin, D Sammy, A Russel, S Narine, R Rampal, F Edwards.
I would go with Dr smith right now cant think about anyone would Love simmon, but hes now coming out of injury, not sure how he will play. Barath, would rest him for NZ test tour Hope he would have gayle to oopen with him. D Bravo going through a Patch and a ODI will make it worst he is better in Test, prepare him for NZ. Along with K Edwards, back in the Caribbean with the home crowd he would do wonder like His past performance.
I would give F Edward a Go for The ODI, resting Roach for Test against NZ.
Because As England tour finish NZ tour starts.

 

[War]

I Know with regards to many have their view on who should be batting @ # 6.

But has anyone looked at the alternative idea of possibly moving Prior up to # 6, plus turning Bresnan into a competent all-round @ # 7, so that Fin could be included?

Strauss
Cook
Trott
KP
Bell
Prior
Bresnan
Broad
Swann
Anderson
Finn

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West Indies news: I am fully committed - Jerome Taylor | Cricket News | England v West Indies | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[swacker]

Shocking really, a fantastic day by the windies where they really performed well and gave themselves a shout.

And then they go and gave up all that hard work with an atrocious batting performance.

 

[Owzat]

I Know with regards to many have their view on who should be batting @ # 6.

But has anyone looked at the alternative idea of possibly moving Prior up to # 6, plus turning Bresnan into a competent all-round @ # 7, so that Fin could be included?

Strauss
Cook
Trott
KP
Bell
Prior
Bresnan
Broad
Swann
Anderson
Finn

We don't need five bowlers, we've become number one in the world by playing four bowlers. Weakening the batting which has already shown a tendancy to collapse would be daft to say the least, and I analysed our successes overseas vs home some time ago and I am 99% certain there was heavy evidence that we need six batsmen overseas.

The below shows we don't need five bowlers to take wickets and win matches, something I've known for years.

England Away (2000-)

Five bowlers : P41 W10 D13 L18 (Won 24.39%) Took 20 wkts = 29.27%
Four bowlers : P31 W13 D8 L10 (Won 41.94%) Took 20 wkts = 51.61%

England Home (2000-)

Five Bowlers : P41 W24 D9 L8 (Won 58.54%) Took 20 wkts = 65.85%
Four bowlers : P43 W25 D10 L8 (Won 58.14%) Took 20 wkts = 55.81%

As if proof were needed, England have won four more Tests, and lost eight less, with four bowlers since 2000 in eight less Tests. You could point to losses down under when the aussies were in their pomp, but bowling has not been so much of a problem as batting. In 06/07 when we got stuffed 0-5 we collapsed for under 200 in FIVE innings out of 10.

We lost 0-3 in UAE vs Pakistan with four bowlers, took FIFTY wickets, the only problem was we scored only 1144 runs in six innings and only passed 200 twice. I don't know if there'd ever previously been a "whitewash" where one side only scored 144 more runs than the other, but that is what Pakistan did to us - 15/0 in the 1st Test 2nd innings the only instance we didn't bowl them out.

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

You don't know, noone does, Finn or whoever might have steamrolled the top order in his stead.

I

Not necessarily given his form in the series and the way he'd bowled

told

Or ended up with someone who can knock over the top order, not the lower order.

you

I didn't say it wasn't worth anything, I said it wasn't "match winning". If we win the match it will be because of Strauss and other big run scorers, not because our bowlers eventually took the 10 wickets.

so.

 

[swacker]

So, gentlemen, we're expecting an England win at some point today, the question is at what time?

I'm expecting Samuels to show some respect and professionalism for a bit, but once his wicket falls it'll be throw the bat and get it over and done with.

 

[barmyarmy]

34 to win with 10 wickets in hand...

 

[Sureshot]

Scraped over the line!

Last night was the key session, give Bresnan his due, he's done well here, 8-140 odd and 39 important runs in the 1st innings. He did bowl well, as did all the others. Again, a professional performance by England, getting the job done.

I was thinking yesterday, we could field a 2nd XI bowling attack of Tremlett, Onions, Finn and Panesar. That's an attack that's only beaten by SA and the 1st XI attack I reckon, though possibly Pakistan would beat it too, depending quite how many of them are playing/banned/picked. Impressive resources, though as said, that #6 position is definitely up for grabs. Bairstow has to play against SA now, I see no point in changing to anyone else.

 

[War]

We don't need five bowlers, we've become number one in the world by playing four bowlers. Weakening the batting which has already shown a tendancy to collapse would be daft to say the least, and I analysed our successes overseas vs home some time ago and I am 99% certain there was heavy evidence that we need six batsmen overseas.

The below shows we don't need five bowlers to take wickets and win matches, something I've known for years.

England Away (2000-)

Five bowlers : P41 W10 D13 L18 (Won 24.39%) Took 20 wkts = 29.27%
Four bowlers : P31 W13 D8 L10 (Won 41.94%) Took 20 wkts = 51.61%

England Home (2000-)

Five Bowlers : P41 W24 D9 L8 (Won 58.54%) Took 20 wkts = 65.85%
Four bowlers : P43 W25 D10 L8 (Won 58.14%) Took 20 wkts = 55.81%

As if proof were needed, England have won four more Tests, and lost eight less, with four bowlers since 2000 in eight less Tests. You could point to losses down under when the aussies were in their pomp, but bowling has not been so much of a problem as batting. In 06/07 when we got stuffed 0-5 we collapsed for under 200 in FIVE innings out of 10.

We lost 0-3 in UAE vs Pakistan with four bowlers, took FIFTY wickets, the only problem was we scored only 1144 runs in six innings and only passed 200 twice. I don't know if there'd ever previously been a "whitewash" where one side only scored 144 more runs than the other, but that is what Pakistan did to us - 15/0 in the 1st Test 2nd innings the only instance we didn't bowl them out.

By suggesting including Finn, i'm not insinuating that their is a need for 5 bowlers in the ENG set-up, since obviously we have a top-class 4-man attack that can take us 20 wickets.

However in all the talk of who should be batting @ # 6 for ENG, the fact remains that the most deserving person to not be in the England squad currently is Finn - instead of a new # 6.

The top-order may have the tendancy to collapse yea, but its still one of the better top 6's in the world game currently.

Thus i'd back them to be able to talk more responsibility, if Bresnan came improve further as a all-rounder.

 

[Paki007]

Seriously WI threw it away in 2nd innings They could have drawn this one but another pathetic display of batting by them.Actually even in 1st Innings Expect sammy and Samuels a contribution of Shiv,nobody stood up.They need to select a better batting line up than this.WICB is like PCB was in Ejaz butt era

Isn't there too much gap between 2nd and 3rd test?

 

[barmyarmy]

We've always known that the bowling is good but the batting has been suspect for me in both tests. Players getting themselves out on good pitches. Do so at your peril against SA.

 

[westindies2007]

Seriously WI threw it away in 2nd innings They could have drawn this one but another pathetic display of batting by them.Actually even in 1st Innings Expect sammy and Samuels a contribution of Shiv,nobody stood up.They need to select a better batting line up then this.WICB is like PCB was in Ejaz butt era

Isn't there too much gap between 2nd and 3rd test?

SAME onld Story from West Indies Past 15 years Now. The Day we get 2 Successfully inning of Batting then we can think about beating people.
B WI surprise me today I though it would done by Lunch or just after lunch.

It's time WICB, get down on there knees and bring back in c Gayle and Sarwan At least if they don't want anyone else. Those two along Barath, K Edwards and Daren Bravo could strength the batting, Then only thing left is to kick out Sammy in Test Cricket tell him retire from Test and Pick an extra Bowler.

 

[Sureshot]

We've always known that the bowling is good but the batting has been suspect for me in both tests. Players getting themselves out on good pitches. Do so at your peril against SA.

I don't think the batting has been that bad. Of course there have been some iffy shots, but you can say that about most dismissals in any Test.