West Indies Tour of England - May to June 2012

[StinkyBoHoon]

Who'd have thought Bresnan would end top wicket taker in the innings?!? Then again it is keeper, number nine and two batsmen AFTER they had made hundreds.

I have a sort of rule of thumb over bowling figures, anything much more than 3/65 in terms of runs is more accumulated wickets than match winning. A 4-6 wicket haul with 90-100 runs or more tends to be from toil than destruction.

still, where would you have been if he hadn't got them? and people that rate bresnan would have thought it.

the point is bresnan is the fast bowler that can toil, he lacks the glamour of the hoop swinging anderson and tall and quick broad but he's a very useful dimension. sure finn may have got them, but he may not have and you'd have ended up with 3 very tired quick bowlers that could have ended up being put away for fun by the set batsmen.

and if 4 wickets for 100 runs isn't worth anything what is 2 for 70 or 80? if all the bowlers had gone for that the windies would have easily been sitting on 400+ there's a reason bresnan is the only english bowler that averages under 30, and that's because consistently contributes in difficult situations.

 

[swacker]

Should be two down this morning, sickening for the Windies but bowling so many no-balls is unforgiveable really.

 

[barmyarmy]

Good 100 from Strauss. At least, from the Windies point of view, he'll be out quickly in the morning

 

[swacker]

Strauss and KP have batted superbly. Set up nicely for England to bat long into tomorrow ant get a 200 run lead.

 

[westindies2007]

There is not guarantees that the WI will win with Gayle, Sarwan, Nash and whoever else in the team but it gives them a hell of a better chance to do so.

I am all for giving youngsters a chance and that's why I am against the inclusion of "waste of space" Best but the 6 batsman (including Ramdin) in the current team don't have half the tests that Shiv has. There just isn't enough batting experience in the team. Sarwan and Gayle would add that experience so that there isn't too much pressure on the likes of Bravo and Barath.
I also don't understand all this hate that everyone is directing towards Kirk Edwards. His career is 8 tests old and he has scored 2 centuries and 4 half centuries so far in that young career. He has as many hundreds in 8 tests as Samuels has in 38 tests. Unless he is injured he has a place in this current team in my opinion but I do agree with you that he should not be the vice-captain but that goes back to West Indies not having a suitable leader so they just give the captaincy to whoever is there.

Also over his career Sarwan has been injured often and for me that's the reason why he shouldn't be the captain. He might have the leadership skills required but because he is injured so often someone else would have to take charge of the team. I am also on Sarwans side when it comes to him refusing to play for WI instead choosing the county. He was screwed over as much as Gayle if not even more by the coach and the board which completely ruined the guy for over a year. Now he is back and scoring runs so if the WICB and Gibson want to do things properly they have to stop acting tough and think about the West Indies cricket not their own personal agendas or beefs that they have against certain players.

If they want to do things properly with Sarwan, Nash, Gayle and whoever else they should start over with the home series against New Zealand. Invite them to the camp, give them a chance to show what they got, give every player a fair and equal chance to make the team and go from there. If Sarwan or Nash or Gayle make the team and they aren't performing then drop them but give the players a fair chance.

To Be honest i do agree with you on this, you do have a Point, here. Since NZ isn going to be bring they best Team, WI should star over again.
Adding in Gayle , but Sarwan isnt going to play for WI and I wouldn't be upset if He reject West Indies Offer.

But Our Main concern is the Captain, Who can take over it? Gayle for sure isnt a good candidate, since he reject our Central Contact and we dont know If he we will play for WI when those IPL and T20 competition comes along.
and Ramdin next inline Not sure if he can be one need to start making runs, Also K Edwards for me still need to prove himself, in dead pitches he can makes alot of runs like India, West Indies and Bangladesh, he is yet to impress on England pitches, so for me giving him captaincy will Hurt his individual performance.

For sammy, To me from de beginning sammy isn't a Good Test Captain due to his individual performance, thats his Only problem. He isnt doing any thing with the Ball, which is Causing us a Bowler short and if we play him as a Batsmen, Not Sure if he will produce de Runs We need. dont mine his last few Test he have been scoring decent runs, but he keeps treating Test Match like ODI/T20 which isnt good.

For the Rest, Daren Bravo, S Chanderpaul, F Edwards, K Roach, etc don't really have Captaincy skills.

B Nash was Once the Vice Captain of sammy I think during the world Cup and India Tour to the Carribean, maybe he could be a Candidate for the Test Matches?

But to be honest I wish the Likes of Gayle, Pollard and Dywane Bravo would accept WI contract if offer, so that we would know that they are ready to be pick For WI over Other T20 competation.
I have no problem with out Players going IPL, but WICB needs to come up with a Plan, where the player can Lay IPL and also still Rep West Indies.

For de Coach of West Indies Cricket. I also think he have been Harsh on the Senior Players, meaning If you talk bad about him, He just drop you from the Team, I do agree with Dicipline, but his Approach should of been better, maybe giving de player a few match Off to Rethink what they said, instead Of just dropping Them. Plus the Coach Have a Very Very Very poor organisation to deal with, where it made the Coach to make decision,without anyone behind him, the WICB let everyone do as they wish, the Players, the Coach, etc Which is also hurting WICB. To me the coach don't need to be change, He have done a very pretty Job with this young and unexperiance Team they may not have win anything, but the score card doesn't Show how this young side are playing. All the Coach need a Leader of the WICB who knows Cricket. and I think Trinidad and Tobago have one of the Best Organisation Board when is come to cricket. The Leades of WICB are Politic, which Is really ruining our cricket. They are Very Soft Organisation, they do thinks, they listen to people and keep messing up everything.


So Basically I could Go with you on this, because i think it would be a Great Idea.

Where is what i think.
1. Whateever happen in the Past we Forget, and think about the Future of WI.

2. The WICB and Coach should sit down and Look at our Cricketing Pool, and study it proper, and DONT FAVOUR no one.

3. Pick a Best 30 player to go on a Camp. pick Both Experience and non experience Player. and who ever did great in the Camp, put a 15 Men Squad.

4. in this 15 Man Sqaud we MUST pick some experience Player along with player who can carry on from the Experience player for the Future.

5. Give Each player a 3-4 Series Runs If a Players keeps on Failing and Failing, DONT drop them Completely and forget about them, send them to the A team or Let them play Domestic Cricket in WI, but i would say England, so they keep playing Cricket.

6. For the ones that get drop, bring in a few more players, Example if a Non experience player fail, bring in another non experience player, If an Experience Player failed, look for another Experience player to take his spot, So it wouldn't be Putting all experience player so that when they get old and retire that WI dotn fall flat again and Dont put all non experience player so that we Just stall all the time.

Btw Note I dont have a problem with J Taylor, Gayle, etc.
It wa about time WICB did something. Bu i would Love to See Gayle back in WI, Gayle is one of my favorite Player in the World.but he disappointment not signing the WICB contract, which started all this Issue, which gayle was drop as Captain and Sammy toke over.
Plus I think J taylor was de best Bowler in the Caribbean, unfortunely it seem he is done with Cricket unfortunely a Big Lost for WI.
Wi Have found Roach in his Place, imaging what both would of done to England this Series. Unfortunely today it wasn't Roach Day.

Anyway To this Topic on WI Vs England Test 2.

For me If West Indies dont get England out before that 370. England may Make About 200run + Which would put West Indies in aery big Problem.
I am disappointed with Barath, Powell, edwards and Bravo.
I know I shouldnt be harsh on them, they are goign to get a 2nd chance, but only way West Indies can saafe this is a Draw, Batting out the Full 4th Day and Bat until Tea on day 5. Because i can See England going to Put on about 300 more runs tomorrow, putting in WI in Day 4. Giving WI 2 day to hit off 200 run and trying to add on.

Samuels is in form Good batting to him, Feel for Chanderpaul, having all the persure got out.
Yesturday Sammy shows he CAN bat, ONLY if he STOP playing ODI and T20 in Test. And again today he got out Stupid. 450+ Runs is a MUST against england and to give away his Hand like that was Plain Stupid. IF he and Samuels would of played on score another 100Runs Partnership by Lunch, we would be better off right now. Poeple may say i am harsh on them , sicne they carry the score from 130something to 300+ run. But here is an Chance to silents the Critics, and set up a win for WI, only if they would of batted to day 2 at Lunch. anway way its over.

WI top 5 have to save WI in the 2nd innings if we are 4 down for 50 again, WI lost.

 

[puddleduck]

Excellent Test Cricket so far. Been drunk watching it with my old housemate every day so far and it's surpassed expectations comfortably. Excellent so far

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So far ..

 

[angryangy]

What I meant to add, but never did, was that the "safe" option of someone who can bat and bowl isn't necessary with a four man attack, a potential 7-9 of Prior, Broad and Swann, and where the bowling ability should take precedence over the batting ability of the one bowling slot "up for grabs".

But he's not in the team because he can bat, he's there because he's a reliable bowler. If they picked him for batting, he'd be picked ahead of Tremlett. This doesn't appear to happen.

 

[Owzat]

still, where would you have been if he hadn't got them?

You don't know, noone does, Finn or whoever might have steamrolled the top order in his stead.

and people that rate bresnan would have thought it.

Not necessarily given his form in the series and the way he'd bowled

the point is bresnan is the fast bowler that can toil, he lacks the glamour of the hoop swinging anderson and tall and quick broad but he's a very useful dimension. sure finn may have got them, but he may not have and you'd have ended up with 3 very tired quick bowlers that could have ended up being put away for fun by the set batsmen.

Or ended up with someone who can knock over the top order, not the lower order.

and if 4 wickets for 100 runs isn't worth anything what is 2 for 70 or 80? if all the bowlers had gone for that the windies would have easily been sitting on 400+ there's a reason bresnan is the only english bowler that averages under 30, and that's because consistently contributes in difficult situations.

I didn't say it wasn't worth anything, I said it wasn't "match winning". If we win the match it will be because of Strauss and other big run scorers, not because our bowlers eventually took the 10 wickets.

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But he's not in the team because he can bat, he's there because he's a reliable bowler. If they picked him for batting, he'd be picked ahead of Tremlett. This doesn't appear to happen.

If Bresnan couldn't bat then I bet he wouldn't be in the side, or at least it would be very very much less often in deference to Finn and Tremlett.



As for the Test, England need to press on and get to where they want by around the close of play, either declare/close an hour from the end or an hour into tomorrow. I think whether we need to bat once only or not is very much down to windies and how they bat, I think we run a risk if we try posting 600+ and batting towards lunch or beyond tomorrow then we will use up valuable time.

By lunch we should be about level, pushing on and if wickets are intact to do so, we can get 200 opr thereabouts lead by sometime in the final session. I would want to be pushing for victory, the more we bat the more risk there is of a draw and we'd want to be going 2-0 into the last Test not 1-0. While 300+ runs in front might seem a surer way of winning, it is much more likely to draw. Even at 300 runs a day which is about par so far, they'd only have to score about 350-400 batting third on a decent surface to make a positive result difficult.

 

[MUFC1987]

Fair play to Rampaul, has got the ball doing plenty in this innings and deserves a few more.

 

[Papa_Smurf]

Who was Bairstow's batting coach? Suresh Raina?

 

[barmyarmy]

I am beginning to worry about the SA series. Total lack of application from most our batters again against a second rate attack. Gone it seems are the days of innings and 10 wicket victories.
I'm just very pessimistic about our chances later this summer based on this series so far.

 

[swacker]

Very kneejerk of me and I await abuse from Benitle but Bairstow doesn't seem ready yet. Bit gash to impress when you only get one innings per Test but he won't have many mire chances to impress before Steyn and co arrive.

 

[Haarithan]

I'm just very pessimistic about our chances later this summer based on this series so far.

Seconded. Like I'd said before, can't really see us beating the Saffers at this rate. #6 needs to be sorted out again, Bresnan needs to be more reliable as a bowler while at the same time offer depth with the bat. Only positive sign ATM being Strauss' rise to form.

 

[MUFC1987]

I think it depends what the selectors want from the No. 6. I'd say that James Taylor and Bopara would have similar doubts over them, so if we're looking long term, then Bairstow is the right guy to persevere with. It's just a question of whether the selectors want somebody for the here and now, and pick a Compton, or similar and play him out of position down the order, just incase South Africa blow the top order apart.

Which I can't see happening by the way. Cook, Trott and KP will be more than up for facing Steyn and co, and guys like that thrive on the top level confrontations.

 

[barmyarmy]

Let's get Shiv early with the new ball. Obviously only if we can stop him getting runs this will be more straight forward.
He's got to fail occasionally...