West Indies Tour of England - May to June 2012

[swacker]

Fair play to the Windies. After I bashed them earlier this is a decent fightback

 

[Sureshot]

Can't see England beating the Saffers at this rate.

Eh? Apart from Bresnan being completely meh, the rest did a good job. Don't confuse a flat 1st day wicket with a poor bowling display. You can't just expect them to roll over the WIndies every time the bowlers pick up the ball. Quite how Sammy has edged his way to 88 I don't know, but great knock from Samuels.

 

[Haarithan]

No real excuses in allowing them to amass 300+ from 65-4 for the second time in three innings though. Swanny's been average as well.

Lesson learnt though I guess. Can see Finn being picked for the South African tests now.

 

[barmyarmy]

Bit weird how after 6 weeks of rain it's suddenly sunny and warm
Well played by the Windies today.

 

[aus_maestro]

Always nice to see Anderson behave like a spoilt child. Played Windies, but England will probably win.

 

[Dare]

I am talking about taylor because holding specifically brought him up (I did incidently think he was very good back in 2009) I think you've sort of missed the point. I was addressing holdings criticism of gibsons hard line discipline not ordering the west indian bowlers by pecking order. that's really not a concern as long as the ethos of selection and discipline is being implemented.

No I understand what you were saying. I was referring to some WI squads that were posted in this thread and people are saying "this is the best WI squad" and they have Taylor in there event tho he hasn't played a match in a long time.

IF tino best has been applying himself and is fitter than pascal, holder, etc then there is no problem bringing him back in, it sends the correct message to players competing for selection. maybe he isn't fitter, maybe you're quite right that they should of picked holder. but too many potentially talented west indian players have come into the team and bombed in the last 10 years, believing that this crop is where the rot will magically stop is more naive than optimistic. right now I think the west indians need to focus on rewarding effort more than talent. Sammy is certainly not lacking in this capacity (someone people are always calling to be dropped) Gayle and Sarwan are.

There has never been a problem with Bests fitness. He has been one of the fittest players in the Caribbean for a long time. It is his performance that doesn't say anything about his inability to play at the top level. His averages in the Caribbean domestic cricket this year don't show that he still has a lack of control which at international level wont bring him wickets like it does in the Caribbean.

Jason Holder this year was a much better bowler on a much worse team and his economy was allot better then that of Tino Best.

 

[aussie1st]

Hopefully Sammy gets a 100, he has deserved it after some of his cameos of late. And welcome back Samuels.

 

[angryangy]

I'd like to think that any side who gets around 350 has hope on an English wicket but this one really looks like a belter.

 

[Owzat]

I'll re-iterate that I think although Bresnan isn't a bad selection, he's just not aggressive enough a selection. You'd much rather face him than Finn.

He's a "safe" selection, someone who can bat, can bowl, had done pretty well and of course now this whole "lucky talisman" thing makes it even harder for the selectors to drop him.

I'm not a big fan of his, the lucky talisman thing is just a coincidence because it is a TEAM game not that he's won them all. In his 13th Test he hasn't taken more than one 5wi despite playing three against Bangladesh and home Tests against India. His only away series were down under and in Sri Lanka, one Test in Sri Lanka where he took two wickets and a good Ashes series albeit they weren't up to much.

4th Test Anderson and Tremlett took four wickets apiece to bowl the aussies out for 98. Trott's 168no was the base for a massive lead and Bresnan picked off the aussies for 4/50. England would have won without Bresnan.

5th Test the bowlers did a good job but it was 189 from Cook and two hundreds down the order that made for the win. 3/89 and 2/51 are steady (support) figures not match winning, 1/4 of the wickets for 1/4 of the attack. England would probably have won without him given a massive 1st innings total.

 

[swacker]

Always nice to see Anderson behave like a spoilt child.

Is true - despite the pre-match build up having us expect Jimmy would have a five-fer before lunch because it's Trent Bridge.

 

[angryangy]

The thing about Bresnan being safe is that he can bowl reliably and then there are a number of bonuses if he plays well. Finn is improving but still gets into a bit of a mess a lot of the time, so from the coach's perspective it's easy to understand why they go with the guy who can usually stick to the plans.

I don't honestly think the talisman concept is any real thing that is talked about at England planning meetings, it's just a phenomenon that can be commented on. Tremlett's and sometimes Broad's fitness has been the main adjunct to Bresnan's Test career.

What strikes me most is that England have such a funny slip cordon; you can't necessarily straight-swap in a guy who can slip because so many of them are bowlers.

 

[barmyarmy]

Will be hard to win this if we let them get 400.

 

[Owzat]

The thing about Bresnan being safe is that he can bowl reliably and then there are a number of bonuses if he plays well. Finn is improving but still gets into a bit of a mess a lot of the time, so from the coach's perspective it's easy to understand why they go with the guy who can usually stick to the plans.

I don't honestly think the talisman concept is any real thing that is talked about at England planning meetings, it's just a phenomenon that can be commented on. Tremlett's and sometimes Broad's fitness has been the main adjunct to Bresnan's Test career.

What strikes me most is that England have such a funny slip cordon; you can't necessarily straight-swap in a guy who can slip because so many of them are bowlers.

What I meant to add, but never did, was that the "safe" option of someone who can bat and bowl isn't necessary with a four man attack, a potential 7-9 of Prior, Broad and Swann, and where the bowling ability should take precedence over the batting ability of the one bowling slot "up for grabs".

I mean if you have a bowling attack of say Imran Khan, Wasim Akram and Abdul Qadir, you're not going to need to pick the 4th and even 5th bowler on batting ability as Wasim and Imran have enough between them already. I had this debate with the captain of our team at uni, I said you've got a load of medium to quick bowlers and plenty of batting, doesn't matter if the leggie is a bit wayward at times, he'll offer something the team doesn't have - spin. But it was deaf ears, he thought he could bowl spin

Sometimes you just need to pick what you don't have, someone who can hold a bat we have two of, likewise two quick bowlers who can move it about and take wickets. If Bresnan were as good as Broad and Anderson he'd be in the side all the time and have their number of caps.



England need to mop up the tail fast, I'm not convinced 350-400 is a winning total, but if England want to win then scoring 500+ and getting the windies out again is going to be more straightforward the less runs the windies manage. And of course if we were to capitulate which isn't unheard of, the less far behind we can be the better.

And both overnight batsmen got out fairly quickly from their overnight scores, don't know why so much is made of Strauss not going on from overnight tons. It's a different day, you have to start again and in bowling conditions most likely to be helping the bowlers as at any time of the day - and the bowlers are fresh.

 

[Owzat]

Who'd have thought Bresnan would end top wicket taker in the innings?!? Then again it is keeper, number nine and two batsmen AFTER they had made hundreds.

I have a sort of rule of thumb over bowling figures, anything much more than 3/65 in terms of runs is more accumulated wickets than match winning. A 4-6 wicket haul with 90-100 runs or more tends to be from toil than destruction.

 

[Sureshot]

No real excuses in allowing them to amass 300+ from 65-4 for the second time in three innings though. Swanny's been average as well.

Lesson learnt though I guess. Can see Finn being picked for the South African tests now.

He's been average because the pitches haven't been doing anything for the spinners. His bowling has been fine. Besides, we can't get Chanderpaul out without him!