West Indies Tour of England - May to June 2012

[Dare]

I think you two are being a bit harsh on Best. I certainly think he is best option that the windies could have called up to replace Gabriel.

This also has to be a joke. Tino Best couldn't be the best option even if there was nobody in the Caribbean that played cricket.

 

[westindies2007]

Yaaaay another 50 for Brendan Nash and he can still build on it when play resumes. Goooooood job WICB

But way was it When These same players Played for west Indies, We cant Beat no one, Why Keep blaming West Indies Cricket when these Same player are going around de world scoring Runs and when playing for West Indies, They played amount the best 11, yet Everyone is beating us.

We had a Best 11, Powerful Player, on Paper it's a Team which can Match any and everyone, before this Weak West Indies With a Captain who cant even find a Place in the team, when the Best Caribbean Talent played. we are still unable to beat anyone.

It's good to critics the board, yes they are One of the worst Board in the History of Cricket. But yet when they pick de best 11 to Go on the field, us West Indies Falls in Shame.

I can give other series but this England Vs in England. Let me show you the Past performance with the Best 11 West Indies have Put on. Each Matches.


NOTE: I am not Hating on The senior Player. But we sometime get harsh on the Cricket Board, who is Trying things, since even with de best we are failing. If ya not interest in de stats, check below. i am not Favoring Sammy neither.

2009
Test Captain Gayle.
Test Number 1.
England Won by 10 Wickets.

England batted first Scored 377 allout.
Wicket taker.
J Taylor 2-83 (24)
F Edwards 6-92 ( 26.3)
S Benn 2-84 (27)
other bowlers Baker, Nash, Simmon and Gayle.

West Indies Batted
152 ALL OUT
Gayle 28, DS Smith 46, Sarwan 13, Simmons 16, Chanderpaul 0, Nash 4, Ramdin 5, Taylor 0, S Benn 2, Edward 10 and Baker 17.

The Follow on
West Indies all out for 256.
Gayle 0, Smith 41, Sarwan 1, Simmons 21, Chanderpaul 4, Nash 81, Ramdin 61, Tayloe 15, Benn 0, Edward 2, Baker 2.

England had 32 runs to win, beat it off without losign a wicket.
England Bowler on that series.
SCJ Broad, JM Anderson, GP Swann, G Onions

TEST 2
England won by by an inning and 82 runs
England batted first Scored 569 Run for 6 wkts Dec.
Best Bowlers
F Edward 1 for 113 (25 Overs)
S Benn 2 for 146 (43 Overs)
L Baker 1 for 119 (30 Overs)
Gayle 1 - 31 ( 14 Overs)
L Simmons 1- 60 (14 Overs)
Other Bowler J Taylor 0- 68 (20 Overs), Sarwan - 0-7 (1 Over)

West Indies Batting
310 all out
Smith 7, Gayle 19, Sarwan 100, Simmons 8, Chanderpaul 23, Nash 10, Benn 35, Edward 11, L Baker 0.

Follow on
Allout for 176.
Smith 11, Gayle 54, Sarwan 22, Simmons 10, Chanderpaul 47, Nash 1, Ramdin 0, Taylor 5, Benn 0, Edward 4, Baker 4.

England won the series 2-0.
England bowlers GP Swann, G Onions, Broad and Anderson.

2007.
under Sarwan/ Ganga

Match 1
Match Draw
England 553/5 Dec.
WI 437 ALLOUT
England 284/8 dec
WI 89/0
1st Test: England v West Indies at Lord's, May 17-21, 2007 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

Match 2
England Won by an Inning and 283 Runs
England 570/7 Dec
West Indies 146 allout
FOllow on
141 all out
2nd Test: England v West Indies at Leeds, May 25-28, 2007 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

Match 3.
England won by 60 runs
England 370/ allout
West Indies 229 allout
England 313 allout
West Indies 394 allout
3rd Test: England v West Indies at Manchester, Jun 7-11, 2007 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

Match 4
England won by 7 wkts
West Indies 287 allout
England 400 allout
West Indies 222 allout
England 111 for 3
4th Test: England v West Indies at Chester-le-Street, Jun 15-19, 2007 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

2004
Match 1
Eng 568
WI 416
ENG 325
WI 267
ENG won by 200+ Runs
1st Test: England v West Indies at Lord's, Jul 22-26, 2004 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

Match 2
ENG 566
WI 336
ENG 248
WI 222
ENG won by 200+ runs
2nd Test: England v West Indies at Birmingham, Jul 29-Aug 1, 2004 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

Match 3
WI 395
ENG 330
WI 165
ENG 231
ENG WON by 7 wkts
3rd Test: England v West Indies at Manchester, Aug 12-16, 2004 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

Match 4
ENG 470
WI 152
WI 318
ENG 4
4th Test: England v West Indies at The Oval, Aug 19-21, 2004 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

West Indies From 2000- 2009
Played 108
Won 18
Lost 61 < 3 Matches was becasue of a West Indies defeat to Bang when they had a strike.>
Draw 32
Matches won, Not series wins
Zimbabwe 4 (2000/2001/2003)
Pakistan 1 (2000)
England 2 (2000/2009)
South Africa 1 (2001)
India 2 (2002)
Bangladesh 3 (2002/2004)
Australia 1 (2003)
Sri Lanka 2 (2003/2008)
Pakistan 1 (2005)
Thats it and people thinks we were Moving up and progressing with our senior players. Including a Best West Indies 11 Vs a not So Strong Australia Team, was was trying to rebuild with there best player Retiring Global | Cricket news, live scores, fixtures, features and statistics on ESPN Cricinfo
Win/Lost Ratio 0.30


With Gibson as Coach <Beside Sri Lanka Series, West Indies had one of the Weakest TEAM)
17 Matches
Won 2, Draw 9, Lost 6
Match WOn
Pakistan 1 (2011)
Bangladesh 1 (2012)
Win/Lost Ratio : 0.22

We can Agree The best talented West Indies Player Get a FULL chance for playing for West Indies, Our Board give them full Selection picking them for series after Series after series. And the out come is the same thing, Our Best got all out for below 180 alot of time. Our Best cant beat a good line up, Our best didnt play as a Team unit, yet when The Baord did something BAM The Board need Snaking , I dont denied that the Board do make mistake and that why i Keeep saying I Blame Both the Board and the Player for West Indies Down fall. the player gets chances and Cant be successful, The Board get To soft on the Player Do as they like, let them get out of hand then Droping them and Complaining and whining.

The Media and fan always goes on the Player side around de world and Board always takes de blame. i do agree our board isnt really good, but were our best really good orjust player who played to get an good avg and ddint care much about winning. Or this Young WI team who are looking to win, but unable to win due to experience and Talent.
And when people say the senior need to adapt this Attitude of winning, everyone de Board back saying you cant tell de best talent how to play, when for Nearly 10 year they have been playing but isnt winning consistanly.

I Do agree That a Team with Gayle and Co can beat anyone in the world, but this Far they havent shown it yet, all they Do is go in T20 competation and other Places and make runs,etc and people want them back in the WICB, and they get a chance they keep on failign to carry the Same momentum in WI.

Imaging a Team like what WAR pick, Unbeatable on paper, yet What lack is the Mind set for winning, which is in Sammy's Team, but again less Talent and less Experience is costing this young Team to Lost and with No support from no one, yet the Team is trying they out most best and We can see a Progress, unfortunely we are all blind with our senior players.

anyway the Contract is done for All these player along with O Gibson this October. and We all Know WICB they are soft with all de pressure they getting who know what they will do. But I hope they Learn, from all de Past.
For me the best thing is We really need to stay with these Youngster BUT add in a Few more experience player in Test and ODI. will help us and hope those experience player adopt this way of never give up. and seriously A point WI should note Ya can keep Sammy as Captain BUt not Test match Please Pick two teams a Test and ODI/T20 team. with the YOung talent and seniors member we are capable of picking two different teams. Sammy inst a Test Player, so cant Look to Hit Four ever single Balls which Sammy was trying to do in the last 2 -4 Test Matches. and his PACE in Test match is easy picking, for T20 or ODI the batsman will look to go after you that where he could get wickts, NOT test matches. I would like Sarwan to Captain now he is unavaible due to his selection, ramdin should be Captain, Ramdin need to improve.

 

[WestIndian]

Interesting revelation Randy, thanks for the history lesson as well. So where do we go from here?

 

[westindies2007]

Interesting revelation Randy, thanks for the history lesson as well. So where do we go from here?

De Best way for West Indies to go like i mention at de End.
We need to Drop de Captain that one thing for Sure. My personal Favorite Captain for Test from Beginning when LAra Left was Sarwan, unfortunately they give it to Gayle when Sarwan got injured. To be Honest Sarwan to me is de ONLY senior player for me Who really got unfair. Unfortunately He wouldn't play for WI, he was the Most Loyal member of West Indies unlike Gayle, Pollard and Dywane Bravo, Sarwan Never refused a WI Contract .
So right now I love Ramdin to Cement his Place in young Team by scoring runs so we can Put him as Captain He was the vice Captain of Sammy when He got injured. Which made Edward v Captain, to be honest I think Edwards shouldn't be vice Captain he need to keep on scoring runs and try to make sure he Cement his Place in West Indies Cricket.

I would of like to See A Barath and K Edwards opening Batting. Followed by Daren Bravo, if Sarwan was here i would put him in this Place and Daren Bravo 4th. but Daren Bravo 3rd. coming here, at this Moment I would try Fudani, lets see what he have to offer, followed by Chanderpaul 6th, and Samuel/Deonarine would take this 7th, Then Ramdin, Shillingford would come in 8th, Followed by a Fast Pace attack, Rampal, Edwards, Roach. And Gab if he gets back Fit.
this would be My Line up for a while not just pick them and one failer Drop them. Only if West Indies Selectors would understand, Even without Our Talented 11, we can still have a decent Young 11 who could carry West Indies Far. This just my view, Our Senior played, the result was de same, but IF WI want to improve them have to pick they best young 11. For me Sammy have no Space in the Young 11.

While Powell Needs more training they should drop him like they did with Brathawaitee. both Brathwaite and Powell should get a contact in England or Go and play for the A team.
Note: Narine for me can be Given a Debut in Test along with Pollard, I would Love to see how both of them play Test Cricket. Pollard can go inline with Deonarine and Samuels, while Narine take Shillingford. Without Gayle, Sarwan, Nash, J Taylor, We can Still have a Decent team for the future.

For West Indies ODIde Best Team played against Australia, But i would Add Gayle in My limited Over, with all the Young Team, for me Sammy would be my choice in ODI and T20.
for me which would me Gayle,DR Smith, Simmons, Dywane Bravo, K Pollard, C Baugh (not really sure bout him thoug unless we get another keeper, i like to keep Ramdin, D Sammy, A Russel, S Narine, Rampal and Edwards. with J Charles along with C Brathwaite didnt impressyet but he is capbale, just need more exposure , bot of these as a Back up. Even if we lose 4 quick wicket Pollard, sammy and Russel can still pitch in, along with Rampal.

WI can have two Teams. Only if we can Produce 2 more fast bowler for the ODI, so that we dont over use The bowlers, since alot of games is played nowadays TEST,ODI,T20.

Unless Tino Best haven't improve then He remains out of my list and even if He ake all 10 wkt this Match, I still awais his next match, K Cooper is also another player to watch out for, plus I know they may be more young Talent in West Indies still waiting for an exposure. I hope WI Selectors look to give them a Chance, instead of going back to old players and keep going around in Circles.

Give a player at least say like -5 serie before just getting rd of them, and WICB shoudlnt get rid of them put themin a A team, keep them playing Cricket. De PAst is De Past now, we need to improve de cricket it's been Over 10 years now.

Right now. England had Demolised Everyone at this ground last few matches
319 runs against India,
354 runs against Pakistan,
an innings and nine runs against New Zealand.
There has not been a draw since 2002 against India.

West Indies have never lost a Test at Trent Bridge. However, they have not played there since 1995 when Mike Watkinson helped save the match for England .

James Anderson is back on a happy hunting ground where he has taken 33 wickets at 17.45 in five Test, while last year Stuart Broad claimed a hat-trick against India.

But Great stats for England going into this 2nd Test.

NOTE: what me wrote that was because People keep saying If we Had Gayle, Sarwan, Chanderpaul, etc we will win. and dont give the Younger Players a Chance, they did Well, and tehy are fighting,and have surprise alot of people Carryign England into 5 Days, Even India, Aussie ad Pakistan, a Young Unexperiance Team, Only if they can get more experiance, just need a Captain to lead from the front.

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

i'm harsh on the windies usually, but the reason they frustrate me is there is a good team there. it needs moulded and nurtured though.

in some ways i'm not sure i agree with holdings outburst, he's said ottis gibson has been too hard on players, but while the windies would undoubtedly be better short term with gayle, sarwan and taylor (i thought taylor was potentially world class at one point) the fact is it's been 10-15 years of rot for this team and perhaps some harsh decisions need to be made. pulling the team up to at least a mid ranking position is crucial for the future of the team and if some sacrifices need to be made to get to a level where they can maintain that then so be it. if their average players could apply themselves like sri lankan or new zealand's ones then they do have the knack of producing enough mercurial talents that they will win matches.

still not entirely confident their board is acting in the teams best interests but i think gibson has his heart in the right place. perhaps if tino best has been applying himself well domestically, getting fit, working hard, then picking him is the right signal to be giving the rest of the players. his numbers in the regionals are certainly impressive and among the best of the fast bowlers.

 

[Dare]

NOTE: what me wrote that was because People keep saying If we Had Gayle, Sarwan, Chanderpaul, etc we will win. and dont give the Younger Players a Chance, they did Well, and tehy are fighting,and have surprise alot of people Carryign England into 5 Days, Even India, Aussie ad Pakistan, a Young Unexperiance Team, Only if they can get more experiance, just need a Captain to lead from the front.

There is not guarantees that the WI will win with Gayle, Sarwan, Nash and whoever else in the team but it gives them a hell of a better chance to do so.

I am all for giving youngsters a chance and that's why I am against the inclusion of "waste of space" Best but the 6 batsman (including Ramdin) in the current team don't have half the tests that Shiv has. There just isn't enough batting experience in the team. Sarwan and Gayle would add that experience so that there isn't too much pressure on the likes of Bravo and Barath.
I also don't understand all this hate that everyone is directing towards Kirk Edwards. His career is 8 tests old and he has scored 2 centuries and 4 half centuries so far in that young career. He has as many hundreds in 8 tests as Samuels has in 38 tests. Unless he is injured he has a place in this current team in my opinion but I do agree with you that he should not be the vice-captain but that goes back to West Indies not having a suitable leader so they just give the captaincy to whoever is there.

Also over his career Sarwan has been injured often and for me that's the reason why he shouldn't be the captain. He might have the leadership skills required but because he is injured so often someone else would have to take charge of the team. I am also on Sarwans side when it comes to him refusing to play for WI instead choosing the county. He was screwed over as much as Gayle if not even more by the coach and the board which completely ruined the guy for over a year. Now he is back and scoring runs so if the WICB and Gibson want to do things properly they have to stop acting tough and think about the West Indies cricket not their own personal agendas or beefs that they have against certain players.

If they want to do things properly with Sarwan, Nash, Gayle and whoever else they should start over with the home series against New Zealand. Invite them to the camp, give them a chance to show what they got, give every player a fair and equal chance to make the team and go from there. If Sarwan or Nash or Gayle make the team and they aren't performing then drop them but give the players a fair chance.

@StinkyBoHoon

I don't understand why some people are throwing in Jerome Taylor. Right now he is about #6 or 7 in the WI bowling depth chart. He hasn't played a One Day or 4 Day match for almost two years, he played some matches for Pune in the IPL and he was average so he has a long way to go before he even gets a chance to make the team. He had potential but he is not Brett Lee or Zaheer Khan where he can just walk back on to the team after coming back from a injury, he will have to work hard to earn a spot if he still wants one that is.
At this moment Roach, Edwards and Rampaul are top 3 in the fast bowling depth chart then you have, Gabriel, Pascal, Holder, McClean and even young Coterrell is making a name for him self in Jamaica which makes it even harder for Taylor to get back in the WI team because he cant get in the WI squad if he cant get in the Jamaica squad.
Also honorable mention to the world beating Tino Best, I guess he is ahead of Taylor too. Along with everyone else I mentioned

 

[Owzat]

Without runs your bowlers have nothing to bowl at, at least if you can put some runs on the board it creates pressure and can increase your chances of winning.

West Indies didn't make most of conditions in the 1st Test while bowling, but had their batting added 50-100 runs more in their 1st innings they would have given England a tougher test.

 

[swacker]

Would have loved to have seen Finn get a go, but then I am firmly on that bandwagon.

 

[Owzat]

At least Shandy Paul is in his comfort zone, he might as well be alone while he scores runs and the rest of his side don't, but hey ho.

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

@StinkyBoHoon

I don't understand why some people are throwing in Jerome Taylor. Right now he is about #6 or 7 in the WI bowling depth chart. He hasn't played a One Day or 4 Day match for almost two years, he played some matches for Pune in the IPL and he was average so he has a long way to go before he even gets a chance to make the team. He had potential but he is not Brett Lee or Zaheer Khan where he can just walk back on to the team after coming back from a injury, he will have to work hard to earn a spot if he still wants one that is.
At this moment Roach, Edwards and Rampaul are top 3 in the fast bowling depth chart then you have, Gabriel, Pascal, Holder, McClean and even young Coterrell is making a name for him self in Jamaica which makes it even harder for Taylor to get back in the WI team because he cant get in the WI squad if he cant get in the Jamaica squad.
Also honorable mention to the world beating Tino Best, I guess he is ahead of Taylor too. Along with everyone else I mentioned

I am talking about taylor because holding specifically brought him up (I did incidently think he was very good back in 2009) I think you've sort of missed the point. I was addressing holdings criticism of gibsons hard line discipline not ordering the west indian bowlers by pecking order. that's really not a concern as long as the ethos of selection and discipline is being implemented.

IF tino best has been applying himself and is fitter than pascal, holder, etc then there is no problem bringing him back in, it sends the correct message to players competing for selection. maybe he isn't fitter, maybe you're quite right that they should of picked holder. but too many potentially talented west indian players have come into the team and bombed in the last 10 years, believing that this crop is where the rot will magically stop is more naive than optimistic. right now I think the west indians need to focus on rewarding effort more than talent. Sammy is certainly not lacking in this capacity (someone people are always calling to be dropped) Gayle and Sarwan are.

 

[Sureshot]

I'll re-iterate that I think although Bresnan isn't a bad selection, he's just not aggressive enough a selection. You'd much rather face him than Finn.

All that said, another good pitch, not as slow as Lord's. Jimmy and Broad continuing their good work, couple of catches that should have been taken, even if they aren't easy.

Edit: Ooh, Swanny. Great bowling, can WI make 200?

 

[swacker]

Poor effort this from the Windies. Great pitch, great conditions and the ball not doing much. I expect England to put something around 400 on the board.

 

[Haarithan]

Can't see England beating the Saffers at this rate.

 

[Sedition]

I knew Samuels had been out there for awhile, but didn't realise he was closing in on a century He hasn't converted many of his 50's in the past, so hopefully he gets there and helps put 350+ on the board.

----------

Heh, and Sammy's not far off one himself, into the 80's now.

 

[Aalay]

Samuels and Sammy are doing really well here. Good century for Samuels.