Where are the yorkers?

[ferg512]

I ranted a bit in the ashes forum about this, but after watching that display from England in the 1st T20 I really am wondering why. I mean it is a difficult ball to bowl but if you practice enough you should be able to bowl it on demand, I mean this is what these guys get paid for. Look at Malinga, I think he practiced for hours on end by putting a pair of shoes at the popping crease and bowling at them, I think it is just players being lazy and the majority of the time most of them can just get away with having a slower ball.

 

[CG123]

Completely agree. I just watched the highlights of Finch's innings, and not a single one of his sixes was off a yorker.

 

[ferg512]

I saw a bit of the BBC text commentary and Dirk Nannes was talking about it saying that its hard for a tall bowler to bowl a yorker so its a completely pointless ball, thats just an excuse imo you are a professional cricketer get in the nets and practice it.

And also the whole thing about its not as effective because of the lap shot is complete bull as well, the only time I have seen a batsman successfully play that shot multiple times in one innings is McCullum (and he barely does it anymore) and maybe Dilshan.

 

[KingPair]

Absolutely. I believe the yorker is the most underrated delivery type in cricket full stop, let alone one day cricket. What happened to the old additch, "you miss and I hit"? It's common sense.

Even the low full toss is a harder ball to hit than the halftracker, drifting down the legside. In general, England's bowling in one day cricket lacks penetration. It's all too pedestrian, and relies on swing and seam to be effective. That's mainly the reason why they've struggled in the limited overs format, on flat, dry surfaces. Putting the ball on a length is OK in grade cricket, to rely on error from the batsman. But at this level you'd expect the yorker to be bowled, as it's proven to be the most effective way to limit scoring options.

 

[Samuels]

I believe the yorker is the most underrated delivery type in cricket

I agree to disagree. Every fast bowler knows how lethal a yorker is when well directed but it like bouncer gives much strain to the body. It might be the case that in order to prolong their career and be away from any frequent injuries the bowlers have reduced (I would not say stop with bowlers like Gul and Malinga around who have excellent yorkers) bowling yorkers. If you see not many high bouncers are being bowled as well too despite the fact that a bowler can afford to bowl 2 bouncers in each over. Maybe the bowlers are thinking too much about their fitness (rather injuries) and prefer to play safe rather than being another Shane Bond of world cricket but yes, if yorkers are well directed, one cannot play an innings like Finch played yesterday often. What would have been more frustrating than Finch's innings for a Brit is the England bowling is supposed to be one of the best in T20 cricket and you would expect some yorkers and bouncers, not just short balls from a world class attack.

 

[cricket_icon]

I saw a bit of the BBC text commentary and Dirk Nannes was talking about it saying that its hard for a tall bowler to bowl a yorker so its a completely pointless ball, thats just an excuse imo you are a professional cricketer get in the nets and practice it.

And also the whole thing about its not as effective because of the lap shot is complete bull as well, the only time I have seen a batsman successfully play that shot multiple times in one innings is McCullum (and he barely does it anymore) and maybe Dilshan.

You're right, that is a terrible excuse, what about Garner bowling yorkers? And let's not forget the king himself, Akram, he wasn't a midget, the guys was 6'4'' and he bowled a yorker as effectively as shorter bowlers such as Younis and Akhtar.

I just think, over the last few years, with pitches slowing down, bowlers slowing down, that the slower ball and the slower bouncer have become THE delivery for the end of an innings. That in itself is problematic because those balls may be good at stopping runs but they are terrible for trying to pick up wickets. There's nothing like a good death bowler getting in a fast in-swinging yorker.

I think some subcontinental bowlers still have the art, Malinga and Gul are obvious examples but both Junaid Khan and Muhammad Irfan from Pakistan's new line up know how to do it....Irfan is 7 feet lol

 

[ferg512]

I think some subcontinental bowlers still have the art, Malinga and Gul are obvious examples but both Junaid Khan and Muhammad Irfan from Pakistan's new line up know how to do it....Irfan is 7 feet lol

Most Pakistan bowlers have always had a great yorker, I'm thinking maybe they don't get taught to bowl it in the english system or something? Most English bowlers are line and length hit the deck these days. Gough was probably the last english bowler to have a really good yorker and bowled well in the death.

 

[cricket_icon]

Most Pakistan bowlers have always had a great yorker, I'm thinking maybe they don't get taught to bowl it in the english system or something? Most English bowlers are line and length hit the deck these days. Gough was probably the last english bowler to have a really good yorker and bowled well in the death.

I think Flintoff and Jones had good yorker, then again those guys played along side Wasim and Waqar.
I think Broad is pretty good when he pitches it up but seems reluctant to bowl yorkers and wants to be the "enforcer" lol

Looking at the current county scene and the various t20 teams out there, very, very few English bowlers bowl the yorker or even attempt it, theer's the trend, evidenced spectacularly by Dernbach of trying to use the slower all. I've never liked that, yes the odd slower ball can be very good and in the right hands devastating, just ask England about their tour of Pakistan in 05/06 against Akhtar or anyone who's played against a motivated Malinga. Heck even Harmison had a good slower ball but having said all that, it will never be as crucial a delivery as the yorker.

 

[Samuels]

Looking at the current county scene and the various t20 teams out there, very, very few English bowlers bowl the yorker or even attempt it, theer's the trend, evidenced spectacularly by Dernbach of trying to use the slower all. I've never liked that, yes the odd slower ball can be very good and in the right hands devastating, just ask England about their tour of Pakistan in 05/06 against Akhtar or anyone who's played against a motivated Malinga. Heck even Harmison had a good slower ball but having said all that, it will never be as crucial a delivery as the yorker.

While I agree that the slower delivery is being overused by some bowlers in T20s and death overs of ODs, we cannot compare the usefulness of a stock ball as it is different for every bowler's style and it depends on various factors like a bowler's usual pace, usual line and length one bowls at and how often does a bowler tries to experiment. What I am trying to say is, each bowler has a stock delivery which might not be the best of options to bowl for another bowler or if at a stage, I bowl 3 yorkers, a bouncer might be the best ball to bowl and if I have an ability to bowl at 90 mph an hour, a slower ball can be my most lethal asset. In another scenario, for someone like Mohammad Irfan, yorker is a perfect ball as you do not expect such a tall man to bowl yorker often. All said and done, the topic here is that bowlers do not bowl much yorkers these days. It is not that most bowlers cannot bowl yorkers; they surely can. The reason behind that apart from high chances of getting back spasms and other niggles while bowling yorkers, I think the bowlers have found the slower balls more effortless to bowl with more or less the same effect as a yorker in T20s which shows the negative approach of the bowler because by bowling as slower delivery, the bowler is looking to contain runs and not take wickets which is the main idea behind bowling a yorker but then, one of the pivotal reasons why the slower delivery is so popular amongst the bowlers is that does not cause them any niggles which might shorten their careers.

 

[sifter132]

Couple of things on yorkers:
A) I hate commentators and ex-players going on about yorkers, yorkers, yorkers, implying that modern players are imbeciles for not bowling them every ball. Let's get that out there in advance - I'm biased against yorkers just because of that know-it-all attitude haha
B) Modern batsmen play the yorker a lot better than batsmen of the 70s, 80s and even 90s did. I'm not talking so much about the arsey scoop shots, I'm talking about things like simply backing away to leg so you can hit the yorker with power. MS Dhoni's helicopter shot (yes and the scoop shots...) is a great example of batsmen now having a plan for yorkers and practising different shots to counter them.
C) Yorkers are hard to bowl, especially in isolation - easier to get your range with a few in a row. That's why the yorkers I remember usually come in clumps, when a bowler really gets it right and/or he realises the batsmen is clueless. I think of an over Malinga bowled to David Warner a few months back in Australia - all wide yorkers beautifully executed, and Warner had no skills/plan. But going back to point B, most batsmen these days have got a plan or the skills to get away yorkers, especially if you know they're coming.
With enough practice yorkers can be improved for sure, and this is one of the key things. A guy like Malinga gets that practice - he doesn't have to play Test cricket, and plays heaps of short stuff. If he can't bowl a yorker with consistency, then no one can. Dirk Nannes arguably should have been able to do this as well, but I think once he realised that yorkers were too hard for him, he focused on other things. It's not going to be the same for every bowler, so expecting them all to be able to bowl yorkers on demand is ambitious.
D) I wonder if analysis isn't playing a part here eg. analysts will have a look at all yorkers: successful and attempted, then determine how successful they were and compare them to other types of deliveries. Good yorkers are great balls, but bad yorkers are knee high full tosses, and that disparity makes them a risky delivery, one that analysis may have determined isn't worth the risk. Perhaps players are getting advised, if you can't your yorker right at least x% of the time, don't bother.

 

[War]

I recall raising this issue a few years back on this forum.

http://www.planetcricket.org/forums/cricket-discussion/art-bowling-t20-cricket-international-75572.html

 

[ferg512]

Couple of things on yorkers:
A) I hate commentators and ex-players going on about yorkers, yorkers, yorkers, implying that modern players are imbeciles for not bowling them every ball. Let's get that out there in advance - I'm biased against yorkers just because of that know-it-all attitude haha
B) Modern batsmen play the yorker a lot better than batsmen of the 70s, 80s and even 90s did. I'm not talking so much about the arsey scoop shots, I'm talking about things like simply backing away to leg so you can hit the yorker with power. MS Dhoni's helicopter shot (yes and the scoop shots...) is a great example of batsmen now having a plan for yorkers and practising different shots to counter them.
C) Yorkers are hard to bowl, especially in isolation - easier to get your range with a few in a row. That's why the yorkers I remember usually come in clumps, when a bowler really gets it right and/or he realises the batsmen is clueless. I think of an over Malinga bowled to David Warner a few months back in Australia - all wide yorkers beautifully executed, and Warner had no skills/plan. But going back to point B, most batsmen these days have got a plan or the skills to get away yorkers, especially if you know they're coming.
With enough practice yorkers can be improved for sure, and this is one of the key things. A guy like Malinga gets that practice - he doesn't have to play Test cricket, and plays heaps of short stuff. If he can't bowl a yorker with consistency, then no one can. Dirk Nannes arguably should have been able to do this as well, but I think once he realised that yorkers were too hard for him, he focused on other things. It's not going to be the same for every bowler, so expecting them all to be able to bowl yorkers on demand is ambitious.
D) I wonder if analysis isn't playing a part here eg. analysts will have a look at all yorkers: successful and attempted, then determine how successful they were and compare them to other types of deliveries. Good yorkers are great balls, but bad yorkers are knee high full tosses, and that disparity makes them a risky delivery, one that analysis may have determined isn't worth the risk. Perhaps players are getting advised, if you can't your yorker right at least x% of the time, don't bother.

We're probably going to have to agree to disagree on this one then, I do understand for a bowler like Dirk Nannes because his length balls are really effective (I don't even think I have seen him bowl a slower ball as well) he doesn't really need one. I'm not expecting a bowler to bowl 24 yorkers in a T20, but when things were going so woefully wrong like it was for England the other night you at least need to have the option of bowling a couple of yorkers an over. If some of them don't have the time for it like you say then maybe guys like Broad and Finn shouldn't be playing T20 and get some specialists in there, I don't like Dernbach at all but the guy definitely did show them how to go about bowling in a T20 the other night. Yes, yorkers are hard to bowl but these guys get paid for this right? I think the main issue is laziness, the majority of them just say its too difficult so they'll just practice a slower ball and throw down a bunch on length rubbish. Even if a yorker is slightly off and it it turns into a low full toss this is surely more effective than the length ball England continued to bowl at Finch (which continued to get hit out of the park).

----------

I recall raising this issue a few years back on this forum.

http://www.planetcricket.org/forums/cricket-discussion/art-bowling-t20-cricket-international-75572.html

Thanks for that War, had a read through your post and I couldn't agree more.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/sport/8416465/Our-domestic-fast-bowlers-are-lazy

This is an article I remembering reading last season, its related to our domestic cricket but still raises the same issues.

 

[ChandruCSV]

ha ha.. in Indian cricket yorkers are went away with zaheer khan

 

[sifter132]

We're probably going to have to agree to disagree on this one then, I do understand for a bowler like Dirk Nannes because his length balls are really effective (I don't even think I have seen him bowl a slower ball as well) he doesn't really need one. I'm not expecting a bowler to bowl 24 yorkers in a T20, but when things were going so woefully wrong like it was for England the other night you at least need to have the option of bowling a couple of yorkers an over. If some of them don't have the time for it like you say then maybe guys like Broad and Finn shouldn't be playing T20 and get some specialists in there, I don't like Dernbach at all but the guy definitely did show them how to go about bowling in a T20 the other night. Yes, yorkers are hard to bowl but these guys get paid for this right? I think the main issue is laziness, the majority of them just say its too difficult so they'll just practice a slower ball and throw down a bunch on length rubbish. Even if a yorker is slightly off and it it turns into a low full toss this is surely more effective than the length ball England continued to bowl at Finch (which continued to get hit out of the park).

Yep that's all good stuff, I'll meet you halfway Could be more yorker practice done, I don't think Test bowlers should play T20 if it can be helped, and at least try a yorker or two - especially against a batsman who is hitting everything else you've got out of the middle.

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

malinga gets away with yorkers nearly every ball because of his height (he's really short for a fast bowler) and his round arm action means the ball comes out really low. It's simple maths, if the ball is coming out at on a more gradual slope, it's going to stay lower much longer, you look at someone like Finn or Broad, guys around 6'6, the ball absolutely steeples out of their over-arm action, hits the deck and then bounces up out of that ideal yorker height. Malinga's skids in and then skids out. They have to absolutely nail the length of a yorker, and even then a step back or forward by the batsmen could completely throw their length off.

He's not really a very good person to bring up when talking about yorkers because his action make his ability to perform unique and impossible to replicate (bar getting another bloke around 5'8 and teaching him to bowl round arm).