Why does Prior not play limited overs cricket?

[bigred]

Should we recall Michael Yardy as well? What about Liam Plunkett? Give Saj Mahmood another go? He doesn't deserve another chance.

None of them have been been playing and succeeding at the highest level for the past 3 years. Nor are they close to the top of the averages for the 2012 domestic season. You've just named 3 average, if not crap cricketers. If you are placing Matt Prior in amogst them I'm worried.

 

[MUFC1987]

Test match cricket is very different to ODIs and T20s. If you don't understand that, then "I'm worried".

Yardy averages 4 runs less in ODIs than Prior does, so why aren't we clamouring for him to be given another chance. Prior has had chance after chance. He has played 68 ODIs. SIXTY-EIGHT. In the last two years he's played 13 games not even averaging 20. He's getting WORSE, yet you want him recalled? How many more should he get? Give him another 40, see if he can get that average up to 25? You people are insane.

 

[puddleduck]

I was sure MUFC already won this thread. Ah well, carry on

 

[War]

Test match cricket is very different to ODIs and T20s. If you don't understand that, then "I'm worried".

Yardy averages 4 runs less in ODIs than Prior does, so why aren't we clamouring for him to be given another chance. Prior has had chance after chance. He has played 68 ODIs. SIXTY-EIGHT. In the last two years he's played 13 games not even averaging 20. He's getting WORSE, yet you want him recalled? How many more should he get? Give him another 40, see if he can get that average up to 25? You people are insane.

Its obvious tests are different from odi/t20s - but in general if players are very good @ test 90-95% they make good odi players.

Which is why there is strong feeling by many people, that Prior's struggles in ODIs has not been a true reflection of his ability, regardless of what the stats say. He is clearly wayy above bits an pieces players like yardy - so comparing them just based on stats is folly in this case, since as the old proven adage in cricket goes "stats don't tell you everything".

Ian Bell had this same problem for years until 2012 before he was opening. Prior is far more natural odi player than Cook & look at how surprising solid Cook has been. Paul Collingwood who became a solid test player, generally was average internationally @ t20s - while always doing well in t20 leagues worldwide. The great Ian Botham had a surprisingly average odi record & no-one can say he wasn't made for odi's.

So if Prior was to ever get another shot at odi's depending on if others in front him fail en route to the 2015 world-cup. He certainly won't be the 1st player to be recalled to national team after an average/poor start in a specific cricket format due to selectors hunch. Who would then later after numerous chances finally come of age. They are many many examples on this in crickets 135 years international history.

 

[MUFC1987]

Screw those 999 out of 1000 who have been brought back and failed spectacularly, let's keep him in the team for that 1 in 1000, over 100+ years that has managed it. That logic is simply brilliant. Apart from the fact that he's been brought back 3 times or so and still hasn't managed it of course(!)

I can't argue with crazy people.

 

[War]

You can make all the noise you want and call people crazy etc etc. All you doing in rising your own blood pressure.

It doesn't change the proven historical fact that many player that have forged great career in cricket, have done so after getting 2nd & 3rd chances after poor beginnings.

I'm not calling for Prior to be picked right now, obvious others are in front of him now & come 2015 this may be a dead argument if those in front him like kieswetter, buttler, bairstow make the position their own & Prior may just remembered as an excellent test player.

However i'm the camp believes he is better at odi cricket internatioanlly than his figures show & don't rule out the possibility that if he is given another chance he could finally shine.

If you think otherwise that he is totally useless in this format & should never get another look in that's your opinion & that's fine. I know you have a tendency to go into a temper tantrum, if others don't share your POVs on cricket - but spare the new poster bigred who started this thread your drivel.

 

[MUFC1987]

Ha, my drivel? You're the one who continually spouts your opinion as being fact. There are many posters on this board with much more knowledge and understanding than you, yet you continually beat the same drum about knowing the right thing that every country you 'support' should do. I have listed stats from his previous attempts as reasons why he should never be picked again. For the last 5 posts or so, you've said 'He's good at Tests, so should get another chance'. Which is based on nothing. You can sit there in your little bubble typing your mega-posts thinking that people rate you highly, when the truth is, you know very little compared to a lot of posters here and those who have left due to people like you spouting the same crap time and time again, without bringing anything new to the table.

Your posts in this thread have been exactly the same, just with added insults, yet I have no doubt that you'll be back to post exactly the same again, after I post this. You live in your world, where the only person who rates you is you and I'll live in mine, where I can chat to knowledgeable people on here and have good conversations without repetitive posts taking up 90% of the board.

 

[fros23]

I think Prior's problem was that he was a predominantly offside player and that made him easier to tie down in the one day game. I think he has expanded his game at test match level and when I've seen him in T20 for Sussex he is very destructive but you would expect that from an England player in the county game.

I think he is probably better suited to one day games than he was previously but he has had plenty of chances and I think England are right to look at Bairstow, Buttler etc going forward.

 

[War]

Ha, my drivel? You're the one who continually spouts your opinion as being fact. There are many posters on this board with much more knowledge and understanding than you, yet you continually beat the same drum about knowing the right thing that every country you 'support' should do. I have listed stats from his previous attempts as reasons why he should never be picked again. For the last 5 posts or so, you've said 'He's good at Tests, so should get another chance'. Which is based on nothing. You can sit there in your little bubble typing your mega-posts thinking that people rate you highly, when the truth is, you know very little compared to a lot of posters here and those who have left due to people like you spouting the same crap time and time again, without bringing anything new to the table.

Your posts in this thread have been exactly the same, just with added insults, yet I have no doubt that you'll be back to post exactly the same again, after I post this. You live in your world, where the only person who rates you is you and I'll live in mine, where I can chat to knowledgeable people on here and have good conversations without repetitive posts taking up 90% of the board.

Ha, I have never once viewed anything i post as undisputed fact or have ever thought i know more about cricket than any planetcricket poster. This is cricket chat and i try my best contribute to it (since last i check that is the aim of the site) & my view is as valid as anyone here.

Get it right & maybe you the knowledgeable people you chat with on this site, should contribute some of this knowledge more to the forum, if it my ignorance is taking up 90% of the forum

And what's this crap about people rating me highly. i don't know if you come on this site seeking showering approval for the posts you make etc - but that's not my forte sorry. If someone likes or dislikes what i say - its fine either way. This is the internet forum if people are so touchy that a person on a wesbite just typing words can make them runaway as you claim some of done - that's their problem.

Please show me where in this thread where i have insulted you?..Quit making stuff up.

It was only the other day in similar condescending manner in the australia vs south africa series thread you were screaming in similar manner than the australian were idiots, crazy etc for not picking starc & hilfenhaus for that crucial perth test. Yet no australian poster on this site thought similarly. Now you have done it here again, so i mentioned it.

I'm pretty sure i stated just now that a) stats don't tell you the whole truth b) in general test players become good odi players c) given career examples of englishmen who like prior were poor initially in a format and became better after getting second chances.

So unless you dispute that old cricket adage, along with the others then their is not much i can tell you. Its clearl you believe prior is simply crap @ odi's based on his stats.

Thus therefore this is an ideological argument with no middle ground & i have accepted your position even though i disagree, without resorting to calling you crazy, which was uncalled for.

Only way either theory will be proven correct is if the scenario occurs where Prior gets another chance in ODIs & he either fails again for reasons you stated or he finally steps up for reasons i state.

Also neither scenario could happen also if the current incumbents step up & Prior is left to just being a test player. Similarly for eg to how Michael Bevan will always be recalled as top odi player, just because of his early test struggles - even though he scored thousands of runs in first-class cricket afterwards, but never got another chance to redeem himself in tests. Which further highlights while your grammatical tirade on the Prior topic now is unnecessary.

 

[MUFC1987]

I think Prior's problem was that he was a predominantly offside player and that made him easier to tie down in the one day game. I think he has expanded his game at test match level and when I've seen him in T20 for Sussex he is very destructive but you would expect that from an England player in the county game.

I think he is probably better suited to one day games than he was previously but he has had plenty of chances and I think England are right to look at Bairstow, Buttler etc going forward.

Spot on.

 

[Auwais]

Apart from a decent knock against the Aussies back in 2011(?), I can't really remember any stand-out innings in ODIs from Prior.

 

[sifter132]

War and I both mentioned Michael Slater, but David Warner is another guy who hasn't prosopered yet in ODIs like his stroke range would suggest. There is an art to building an ODI innings, and I don't think Prior has ever learned it or consistently applied it. Means he can't really be relied on as a big scoring opener.

 

[Owzat]

To be fair to the selectors he's been given several chances and blown them all.

The selectors became obsessed with the pinch-hitting, Gilchrist type, keeper and he is one of the casualties of this search for the holy grail.

Prior (68 ODIs)

Bat 1-2 : 34 ODIs, 762 runs @ 23.81
Bat 7 : 6 ODIs, 107 runs @ 35.67

He only batted his preferred position six times out of 68, half the time he was asked to open. Even Kieswetter has a higher average batting down the order (33.83) compared to opening (29.96), but he has still only batted down the order 9 times in 37 innings.

I suspect the selectors see his Test form and don't want to risk affecting it. England may have now settled on Bell opening with Cook so the keeper bats down the order, perhaps more a reflection on the obsession the selectors have with Bell than the role of the keeper

 

[spooony]

The selectors became obsessed with the pinch-hitting, Gilchrist type, keeper and he is one of the casualties of this search for the holy grail.

Prior (68 ODIs)

Bat 1-2 : 34 ODIs, 762 runs @ 23.81
Bat 7 : 6 ODIs, 107 runs @ 35.67

He only batted his preferred position six times out of 68, half the time he was asked to open. Even Kieswetter has a higher average batting down the order (33.83) compared to opening (29.96), but he has still only batted down the order 9 times in 37 innings.

I suspect the selectors see his Test form and don't want to risk affecting it. England may have now settled on Bell opening with Cook so the keeper bats down the order, perhaps more a reflection on the obsession the selectors have with Bell than the role of the keeper

Gilchrist average 35 in ODI's. Was he really the holy grail?

 

[puddleduck]

Yes. He averaged 35... but at what S/R