Wrestling thread

[RoboRocks]

I think I'm going to watch it tonight.
Should be a good PPV.

 

[sd92]

Indeed it will be. I am also going to watch RAW on monday. The return of Chris Jericho is going to be amazing.

 

[MUFC1987]

So your saying that Triple H might go to TNA. Thats about as likely as your posts being proper english. He's married to Stephanie McMahon, Vince's daughter you bafoon.

I could read his post and it said nothing of the sort, don't assume people are saying something just because you don't take the proper time to read it.

Here are my views on TNA.
1.They have a lot of talent which they can use to good effect and get more fans.
2.They are catching up WWE, and WWE need to do something fast to improve.
3. They need more money in order to claw back the difference on WWE for sure.

1. Which they can use? I would say should use, they just don't though. You look at guys like Christian who are being moved further and further down the card to allow the likes of Hall, Nash and Sting to take the limelight. That's a joke in my view.
2. Catching up? Hmm, opinion more than based on any real evidence. Sure certain people will tell you it's a lot better, but the rating don't really back that up and that's without going to the likes of attendance at their shows.
3. They get more money by being good though, WWE got money through being good. TNA would have a much better show if they used the talent better. I shudder to think how much they're paying for Nash and Hall to be on the show.

Now, my views on WWE.
1. They need to stop favouring RAW so much and make the brands a little more equal.
2. ECW, needs changing, and needs more talent in order to succeed. It also needs to be more extreme like the old ECW, in order to get the old fans back.
3. WWE have quite a lot of good young talent...
Shelton Benjamin, Lance Cade, Jeff Hardy, Brian Kendrick, Paul London, Mr Kennedy, Randy Orton, Cody Rhodes, Bobby Lashley, Deuce, Domino, Matt Hardy, Jesse, The Majors, Jamie Noble, MVP, Jimmy Wang Yang, Gregory Helms, Elijah Burke, CM Punk,John Morrison Kevin Thorn, Umaga... pretty much all of these could be used better and the amount of talent they have is really amazing.
4. They also have some of the best "older" guys out there...
Shawn Micheals, Triple H, John Cena, Batista, Kane, Rey Mysterio, The Undertaker, Edge, Chavo, Big Daddy V, Tommy Dreamer, Stevie Richards. I think most of these stars are being used well but could be used with younger stars more to get the younger stars noticed. I also think the ones from ECW could be more extreme and get back some of the old ECW fans, rather than this WWECW trash.
5. They have a few guys who need scrapping altogether from the roster, because they cannot wrestle and are just there because they are huge or strong, or people who can't actually wrestle, this includes older guys who are well past their sell by date.
Santino Marella, Jim Duggan, The Highlanders, Hardcore Holly, Val Venis, Kenny Dykstra, The Great Khali, Mark Henry, Ric Flair (sorry, i think he should only make occasional appearances), Funaki.

1. Agreed, but Raw is always going to be the Number one show due to the fact that it's the flagship show, it's on at the best time and gets the best ratings, which they don't want to lose out on.
2. More talent maybe, better used talent I'd say. In my view it should be used for the younger stars to let it all hand loose and see what happens. Regarding making it more like the old days, that's unlikely, as WWE doesn't want it's stars to get injured and some old ECW fans just wouldn't listen if you told them it was as good as it used to be, mainly because it won't be to be honest. But lets not forget that the old ECW went bust, so it's perhaps not the best business model in the world.
3. 4. 5. This just confuses me. I appreciate it's based on your opinions so it's hard for me to argue with. However, certain people are where they're too for a reason. I mean sure Val Venis and Jim Duggan aren't going to be world beaters, but they're happy to put over the younger guys and the crowds knows them and gets into their matches. I don't get your comment about not putting younger guys over enough. I mean most of the roster is young talent, some of them like Cena and Orton have been around for a while, but they're still young. The likes of Kennedy and Lashley have only injuries to blame for not reaching the top at this moment in time. Smackdown is the only brand with the older guys at the top of the show, but then you can understand that as fans would rather see 'Taker than someone like The Miz.

I think that if all of these changes were made, and some new talent was brought in from the development territories and some more exciting matches, rather than just one or two per card thenWWE would be a better place, and would probably see off the challenge from TNA.

See off the challenge? I think they'll wait for TNA's challenge to get more serious first.

 

[sd92]

Firstly the challenge is pretty serious. TNA have a 2 hour deal, on a great time for TV in America. I agree with most of your post. Apart from the fact you seem reluctant for WWE to let crap go. Which is rubbish. The likes of Mark Henry need getting rid of. And all these old washed up guys too.

I just don;t think they should favour raw so much. Like Jericho is coming back to RAW. But RAW has loads of main event talent, they need to put him on Smackdown or something.

 

[MUFC1987]

TNA are getting the same rating in the states as the ECW show, it's hardly worth worrying about just yet. If they get rid of the old guys, they have to bury young guys, which is bad if you decide a kid who got beat in 30 seconds by Charlie Haas should be main event materials in the future. It makes sense for the older guys to do the jobbing, the crowd can interact with them and the wrestlers are experienced enough to do a good job.

You mention Mark Henry, why would they want to get rid of him? He's a great heal and sure he's not technically gifted, but if you put him in the ring with a good wrestler he'll make them look good. Plus he's got a legitimate gimmick which is priceless.

You put someone like Jericho on Smackdown and the surprise is out 4 days before the show airs, that's not clever.

 

[sd92]

Sorry but thats crap. The surprise is already out for RAW next week, that he's coming back and it was out 1 week before. That was WWE's fault.

The only reason ECW is getting the same ratings as TNA is because people would watch anything produced by WWE.

Also, the reason ECW failed was because of poor management in the first place, not quality of matches and lack of fans.

 

[The Spin]

I wont comment on you WWE points as they are quite valid, but I will address these.

1. Which they can use? I would say should use, they just don't though. You look at guys like Christian who are being moved further and further down the card to allow the likes of Hall, Nash and Sting to take the limelight. That's a joke in my view.

They should use and on the whole do use a lot now. Unlike WWE, fighting for the World Title isnt everything in TNA where the X-Division title is very important. Christian isnt being pulled down, but he had a long time at the very top and it is now time for him to let some younger guys, like Kaz, to get over off him and get into the maine event. I am sure he will continue to be up there for plenty of time. Addressing Hall, Nash and Sting: I believe Hall isnt main eventing, but is in to help put the kids over. Nash was in the Genesis main event, which I didnt like, but it isnt like he is a regular main eventer as you say and he has been getting the X-Division way over recently. Sting is different though simply because he is still awesome on the mic and in the ring. If you are going to have an old main eventer, I choose Sting over Ric Flair any day.

2. Catching up? Hmm, opinion more than based on any real evidence. Sure certain people will tell you it's a lot better, but the rating don't really back that up and that's without going to the likes of attendance at their shows.

Evidence is that they are getting progressively better ratings for Impact now it is 2 hours. Attendance is mainly because of the confines of the Impact Zone, but whenever they go outside Florida for PPVs they sell places out. Sure, they arent as big as WWE's arenas, but they are playing it safe and I am sure they could sell out bigger arenas. They sold out in Georgia rapidly for the 4000 seats there and so I think they could get closer to WWE if they tried. WWE dont fill arena's which are absolutely massive either though. Vengeance had an attendance of around 15000

3. They get more money by being good though, WWE got money through being good. TNA would have a much better show if they used the talent better. I shudder to think how much they're paying for Nash and Hall to be on the show.

I have said that I think TNA have money already, but still you need to pay for big name guys to give your talent the rub to make them bigger. The old guys have a crucial role to play. As for wages, I dont think they will be too massive considering some offers they have given to other people

See off the challenge? I think they'll wait for TNA's challenge to get more serious first.

As I have said, TNA pose a more serious challenge than you will admit.

TNA are getting the same rating in the states as the ECW show, it's hardly worth worrying about just yet. If they get rid of the old guys, they have to bury young guys, which is bad if you decide a kid who got beat in 30 seconds by Charlie Haas should be main event materials in the future. It makes sense for the older guys to do the jobbing, the crowd can interact with them and the wrestlers are experienced enough to do a good job.

I think getting the same ratings as ECW is great and does show that they are a threat. If TNA can compete with the WWE, even the 3rd brand on ratings, then it is a success because WWE is the established name and TNA are the new boys. You just also explained my theory about old guys in TNA as well, see it isnt so crackpot, some people seem to think that just because it is not WWE that what they do must be rubbish

You mention Mark Henry, why would they want to get rid of him? He's a great heal and sure he's not technically gifted, but if you put him in the ring with a good wrestler he'll make them look good. Plus he's got a legitimate gimmick which is priceless.

And you continue to prove my points. Same as Mark Henry, Nash and Hall are doing the same, helping make other guys look good. Although I would say Henry needs to go because after 5 minutes of a match he is dead on his feet.

You put someone like Jericho on Smackdown and the surprise is out 4 days before the show airs, that's not clever.

You always have to debut someone like that on PPV, always

 

[sd92]

Yes but Chez. Jericho is debuting tommorow night on RAW. Not a PPV. WWE have done this because Edge is coming back, supposedly, on tonights Survivor Series, and they didn't want to overshadow Edge's return by Jericho's. So he's coming back tommorow night instead.

 

[The Spin]

Well then I say he should debut on Raw and move to SD

 

[sd92]

Well i just think he should be on SD. Not sure about a move though, that just sounds pointless. Jericho and Edge could rules over SD.

 

[MUFC1987]

I think getting the same ratings as ECW is great and does show that they are a threat. If TNA can compete with the WWE, even the 3rd brand on ratings, then it is a success because WWE is the established name and TNA are the new boys. You just also explained my theory about old guys in TNA as well, see it isnt so crackpot, some people seem to think that just because it is not WWE that what they do must be rubbish

And you continue to prove my points. Same as Mark Henry, Nash and Hall are doing the same, helping make other guys look good. Although I would say Henry needs to go because after 5 minutes of a match he is dead on his feet.

You always have to debut someone like that on PPV, always

I won't bother with the first half as it's my opinion v your opinion which is pointless. However, on the first bit here, there is a difference between old guys being jobbers and old guys being in the main event. Like I said, you have some young guy as a jobber and then decide to give him a job, it's a lot harder for him to get over, as people think he's a loser. Whereas guys like Duggan and Venis will lose and still get over with the fans. It's a small job, but an old guy can do it a lot better. TNA have old people highlighting main events. Sure Sting can still do a job, but in the same ring as Kevin Nash and Scott Hall? Those guys were struggling to wrestle 5 years ago. TNA need to make their own stars, it seems nowadays the only thing you need on your CV to get into TNA is the fact that you were once employed by WWE.

Mark Henry is again opinion. In my view, he's good for storylines as it's not hard to believe that he legitimately beats people up, so it's ideal to give people a reason to be off TV for a while, but he's not exactly in the main event like Nash is he?

Why put Y2J on a PPV? You think Edge being on the adverts for survivor series is a coincidence? Survivor series will sell big time anyway, they don't need the boost for that, but by saying Y2J will be on Raw (well pretty much) imagine the ratings boost for that. It's ideal.

 

[H0wZ4T!]

This is aimed at all people, who have been debating TNA/WWE youngsters.

Both promotions are at a critical point. They have people, who have reached their peak and now they have to wind down a bit, and help put the potential over. For the two, I mean:

WWE (Past Peak) - Cena, HHH, Taker (even though I adore him), Flair, Michaels (possibly)

WWE (Future) - Hardyz, Orton, MVP, Kennedy, Morrison, Punk, Dykstra etc.

TNA (Past Peak) - Angle, Sting (don't flame me), Cage (not too sure), Nash, Hall

TNA (Future) - AJ Styles, Motor City Machine Guns, Austin Aries, Ron Killings, Kaz, Abyss, Samoa Joe (he will get better, trust me)

Of course, you may or may not agree with my views, after all, that is what this thread should be, one big, massive debate after debate after debate.

 

[sd92]

They never actually said it. They have never said Jericho is linked with it. For all we knew it could be the comeback of Edge, Lashley or anyone.

The only reason i know for sure is, WWE magazine pictures have leaked and it has Jericho on the front page, and the title is "Exclusive on Jericho's shocking return"

 

[MUFC1987]

The video they played had 'Break the wall' amongst other things, it's 100% Y2J.

 

[GrayNicolls]

You can't really say Cage is past his peak, and say the Hardy Boyz are the future, seeing as they're around the same age.