4th ODI: Australia v England at Adelaide

[MUFC1987]

Good to see Collingwood getting some runs. We need to play him to give him some form before the WC, as he's the best option to bat in the top 7 and bowl. Yardy also looks a lot better at 8 than 7, especially as he'd be a second spinner in that role, which I think he's a lot more suited too.

 

[sifter132]

Should have taken the batting powerplay when Dussey and White were set. That would have taken Trott out of the attack and possibly increase our run rate.

I had it in my head to take the PP at over 35 and Hussey holed out 2 balls before that... White was obviously trying to up his rate by going over cover, Hussey thought that shot worked well a couple of overs ago for White and that he'd give it a shot. It was poor thinking by Hussey if they were about to take the PP, or it was poor planning if they were going to wait much longer.

Also, 9 commentators said it right. England win when they have a proper leader of the bowling attack.

It worked for Australia with lee back for Australia.

I think that's crap. England's 3 seamers have done a good job ALL SERIES. Australia's always been at least 2 or 3 down after 15 overs in every match. It's just been whether the England support bowlers could stand up and keep the pressure up. Last night they did that well and had a big total behind them. Whereas in Hobart for example, they had Australia on the ropes early but had to save overs for the 3 quicks and hence they let Marsh and White off the hook.

Got one too many players doing the Clarke role. Ever since White has been consistent he essentially plays the Clarke role with some late hitting to save his innings. Clarke just plain out of form and now hes playing worse than the Clarke role. This was Dussey chance to shine, like most of his ODI innings to date he looked good then gets out ala Haddin.

I thought White was pretty awful last night, and he's been struggling to middle the ball all series. He's kinda doing the opposite of Clarke. Clarke is hitting the ball pretty decently, but finding ways to get out. White can't find the middle of his bat and is hanging around and making runs with a fair slice of luck. One of them has to step up as you say, or it's going to be ugly. White needs to work on rotating the strike better as you pointed out earlier too. If he keeps farting around, then I think he gets demoted to #6. We know he's a good finisher, so there's no problem with that role.

 

[aussie1st]

I had it in my head to take the PP at over 35 and Hussey holed out 2 balls before that... White was obviously trying to up his rate by going over cover, Hussey thought that shot worked well a couple of overs ago for White and that he'd give it a shot. It was poor thinking by Hussey if they were about to take the PP, or it was poor planning if they were going to wait much longer.

Commentators put it in my head and it made sense. They were set and the best to take advantage of it. We need to stop being sheep and start being innovators in the way the batting powerplay is used. We are one team that needs to use it in the middle overs as we usually plod along at 4-5 an over whereas other teams manage to go at 6+ an over especially after a quick start.

 

[War]

ENGLAND

I think they may have just stumbled on their best ODI XI just in time for the WC. Just replace Yardy with Swann & Broad with Tremlett.

Wish they could get Tredwell out of the WC 15 man squad & pick Tremlett though.

AUSTRALIA

No real worries IMO. They just didnt bat well enough in the top 6 on the night.

The bowling of Smith & Dussey proves as i've suggested before why AUS can easily get away with not playing a frontline-spinner in the XI all the time. But of course that may not happen anyway since both Smith & Dussey can't/wont play in the same XI since the selectors wont drop Clarke.

Looking forward to Tait's return.

 

[midgetwars]

The openers have really got to work together.

It's always either Watson 50 or Other guy 50. This happened in the tests as well.

 

[aussie1st]

I quite like the 3 spinning options as Smith is the attacking one that gets wickets, Dussey is hard to get away and suddenly been getting wickets while the main spinner is keeping it tight and also getting wickets.

 

[angryangy]

I had it in my head to take the PP at over 35 and Hussey holed out 2 balls before that... White was obviously trying to up his rate by going over cover, Hussey thought that shot worked well a couple of overs ago for White and that he'd give it a shot. It was poor thinking by Hussey if they were about to take the PP, or it was poor planning if they were going to wait much longer.

I thought White was pretty awful last night, and he's been struggling to middle the ball all series. He's kinda doing the opposite of Clarke. Clarke is hitting the ball pretty decently, but finding ways to get out. White can't find the middle of his bat and is hanging around and making runs with a fair slice of luck. One of them has to step up as you say, or it's going to be ugly. White needs to work on rotating the strike better as you pointed out earlier too. If he keeps farting around, then I think he gets demoted to #6. We know he's a good finisher, so there's no problem with that role.

White doesn't exactly play his best shots over cover either. However, it must be said that it's an underrated quality of White to be able to battle on like that and as a result he's made a surprising number of runs this series. There are lots of players who find ways of getting out when they look good, but White finds a way of staying in when he probably shouldn't. A lot of people will take the view that scoring runs without a great strikerate is useless in limited overs, but it went a long way towards the win in Hobart.

 

[Owzat]

Agree with Owzat, think Yardy would play ahead of Tredwell, but he is in the WC squad so might as well. Not much difference in batting.

Colly as 5th bowler? I think we have to with how the batting has been.

You mention Shahzad, he gets in ahead of Bresnan for me at the WC. Broad at 8, Swann at 9.

Depends how England approach it, if they use Collingwood as a 5th bowler it could turn out like the 1979 World Cup final with Boycott, Larkins and Gooch making up the 5th bowler and 12-0-86-0 while the four main bowlers bowled 48-6-200-8

I like Shahzad as a bowler, can't see England leaving Anderson out, so assuming England pick two spinners :

6. Collingwood
7. Yardy
8. Broad
9. Swann
10. Shahzad
11. Anderson

The seven slot I have been saying for weeks is the key. Yardy's averages are now 19.00 & 50.69 having failed now to take a wicket in 13 of his 23 ODIs and only taken one wicket in each of a further six ODIs. He can score runs as he showed yesterday, but I think he struggles with the dual requirements and is not quite international quality. For me he is the weakest link in that line up, and I fear England will favour Bresnan over Shahzad for batting reasons - a reason I fear Yardy will play most of the World Cup and why we won't win is because we will have too many bowlers in the side who aren't enough of a wicket taker, and too many batsmen prone to get out to silly shots or just at the wrong moment. Add to that a long tail that bats down to 9/10 but in reality is only truly good for the odd 10-20 runs and will crumble under real pressure.

For me only two of those bowlers should be auto-picks, Broad and Swann, the rest may well prove too hit and miss, or worse.




Good win yesterday, wonder how much the aussies were saving themselves. And with a bowler light how lucky were England to get two wickets from Trott let alone they key wickets of White and Hussey?!?! Can't rely on that kind of 'bonus' wicket taking.

re Prior, funnily enough I nearly said I expect he'll get a score this innings to maintain the illusion him opening will work. Over periods we have tried different keepers opening and how many have lasted? Davies might actually manage it, but the second he looks remotely accomplished England decide to pluck Prior back from the peripherary and claim he's in "the form of his life" - that as may be in TESTS batting SEVEN One swallow don't make a summer, or for true love

 

[WORLD CHAMPIONS]

Despite of yesterday's lost i am happy. We didnt crumbled totally or lost by 50-60 runs. We have many positives from yeserday's match. It was great to see slogger like Big Bear play so defensivley, and when he got the groove he started going but failed. Still, great support from the tails, Binga was in good touch. If we would have got support from top order and a bit for our standing skipper Pup, then we could have easily sealed the series. I think, we missed Johny Boy a lot yesterday

 

[Sureshot]

Yeah, because you needed another bowler to spray it around to compliment Lee spraying it.

 

[sifter132]

White doesn't exactly play his best shots over cover either. However, it must be said that it's an underrated quality of White to be able to battle on like that and as a result he's made a surprising number of runs this series. There are lots of players who find ways of getting out when they look good, but White finds a way of staying in when he probably shouldn't. A lot of people will take the view that scoring runs without a great strikerate is useless in limited overs, but it went a long way towards the win in Hobart.

Yeah indeed. Clarke did a similar thing supporting Watson at the MCG in game #1. It's good to have that kind of team contribution even when the personal form is a bit crappy. And I think that's where Clarke has been a teensy bit selfish in the last couple of matches (and Ponting in the Test series) - playing for himself rather than the partnership. He's got it in his head he needs to get back into form and he's forcing shots too early, when he could just limp around with a more established partner to take some pressure off. Usually he's REALLY good at that.

Commentators put it in my head and it made sense. They were set and the best to take advantage of it. We need to stop being sheep and start being innovators in the way the batting powerplay is used. We are one team that needs to use it in the middle overs as we usually plod along at 4-5 an over whereas other teams manage to go at 6+ an over especially after a quick start.

In my mind there's a big difference between 1st and 2nd innings PPs. In the 1st innings you don't want to risk losing a couple of wickets in a PP when you haven't got the runs on the board. Taking the PP at the 30th over at 3/120 for example in the first innings, is MUCH different from taking it at the same score but when you are chasing 275 in a 2nd innings. 2 or 3 headless shots in the first innings and you've basically given the game away, 2 or 3 headless shots in the 2nd innings and you've lost a game you were behind in anyway.

I think my rule of thumb might be:
1st innings take it around over #40 (assuming you've only lost 3 or max 4 wickets)
2nd innings take it around the ball change, overs 34-35

Always ask yourself if you could afford to add 2 more wickets onto your score before taking it.

 

[aussie1st]

In my mind there's a big difference between 1st and 2nd innings PPs. In the 1st innings you don't want to risk losing a couple of wickets in a PP when you haven't got the runs on the board. Taking the PP at the 30th over at 3/120 for example in the first innings, is MUCH different from taking it at the same score but when you are chasing 275 in a 2nd innings. 2 or 3 headless shots in the first innings and you've basically given the game away, 2 or 3 headless shots in the 2nd innings and you've lost a game you were behind in anyway.

Given the par scores for most of the pitches we will be playing on in the WC will be 300+, playing it safe ain't going to win you many matches against the good sides. Take the 2nd ODI against India for example 2nd ODI: India v Australia at Visakhapatnam, Oct 20, 2010 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
They were pretty much at the score you mentioned, and if you take out White's best knock ever we wouldn't have even made 289 which India chased down with 7 balls to spare anyway. Come the 40th over we were only 175, getting 100 off the last 10 is hard enough and that would have only given 275 which would be way below par. Had the powerplay been taken in the 30th over when both Hussey and Clarke were well and truly set then who knows our score could have been well over 300 and we would have reduced the need for the White miracle to get a par score.

You need to have faith in your batsmen getting the job done in the powerplay, which for a set batsmen should mean the odds are in his favour. We aren't a team with the luxury of taking the powerplay in the last 10 since we are currently struggling to get off to flyers and our middle over pace against spin is dreadful.

 

[angryangy]

Always ask yourself if you could afford to add 2 more wickets onto your score before taking it.

Which is why I don't understand how it's not taken early more often.

The big problem with the BPP is that it's treated so vastly different to the other ones. In the early overs, the openers look to play shots. In the BPP, batsmen look to premeditate a slog and get out.

I think in the context of the 4th ODI (and with the benefit of hindsight), White and Hussey probably would have benefited from taking it, because they both eventually got caught in the deep. There's simply no point in holding back the Powerplay while batsmen get out trying to hit boundaries.

 

[angryangy]

playing it safe ain't going to win you many matches against the good sides

On the contrary, I think the best scrapper on the day will win the final at Wankhede, possibly also at least one of the semi finals. Meanwhile, playing Zimbabwe, Canada and Kenya at high scoring grounds seems decidedly less relevant.

 

[aussie1st]

On the contrary, I think the best scrapper on the day will win the final at Wankhede, possibly also at least one of the semi finals. Meanwhile, playing Zimbabwe, Canada and Kenya at high scoring grounds seems decidedly less relevant.

The past 3 World Cup have been won by teams taking it to the opposition not playing it safe. In the past 2 World Cups Australia have scored at over 7 an over in the final and its no surprise who won. The last WC in the subcontinent was won by the team that changed the way we played in the opening 15 overs and they represent the last team to beat Australia in a World Cup in over a decade.