4th Test: England v Australia at Leeds

Dear God that was a dreadful performance.


Bell and Harmy don't deserve to play for England anymore. Ever. Broad should be dropped too, I don't care that he took 6 wickets. Bring him back for the weaker opposition and A team/Warmup games. Just keep him away from the Ashes. Collingwood is just not good enough a batsman. He wouldn't make any other nation's XI barring Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, and possible WI and NZ. He's a luxury to have in the order because he can produce those gritty, match saving innings, but not bowling lineup is going to truly fear him.

England need new batsman. Cook and Strauss are a good opening pair, not the best in the world but they'll get the job done. KP slots in well at 4. You can have Colly at 6 (Post-Freddie), and Prior at 7 with 4 bowlers. Now find 2 more batsmen who aren't rubbish and you're set. Surely England has 2 decent, Test-quality batsmen hidden somewhere?

Seriously, how much longer are we going to keep up this charade of the old guard.

The time is now to groom new batsman, we already have found a good seamer in Onions and Broad will improve. We need fresh blood with the willow
 
Trott? Samit? Shah? Ramprakash? Joyce? Morgan? Hildreth? Denly? Do England really have any batsmen of Test quality left? None of those names sound imposing at the least. One feels that is Ramprakash is picked he'll do a Bell and score 2 quick 20s and get out.



I had high hopes for Harmy. Bah. The guy is worthless. Gets hit for two fours and loses all confidence and starts moping about. How's he been performing in domestic cricket I don't know.
 
Why did anyone expect from Harmy? His fitness was flailing, and he was pretty average in general. I hate being right... ;)

As for up and coming batsman.

Trott has to be given a go. Morgan is an impressive cricketer, though has done more in the shorter formats. Hildreth gets big tonnes. Shah has seemingly gone off the radar, but we know he can be dangerous. I feel it is time to blood new batsmen.
 
England's batting was vulnerable from the start of the series. Bopara was never a number 3, Colly blows hot and cold and once Pietersen was injured we were in serious trouble.
No-one stops to wonder what might have happened at Edgebaston had weather not intervened but there's a very good chance England would have lost. Australia were aggregate 260/5 when play ended and I certainly couldn't see this England batting lineup chasing more than 300 4th innings.
Here the players you expect to fail have failed and, despite playing an extra bowler for some reason, the bowling has been woeful too.
Very hard to see how England can find a team for the Oval which can beat Australia (especially as they'll only need a draw). I was wrong on Harmison; for all his domestic form he has a mental problems playing test cricket and should retire. Trott has to play and frankly I would drop Bell too. Colly is lucky because under normal circs he should be out but I can't see England dropping their entire middle order.
 
Well, since we might as well call this 1-1 going into the Oval, there is one thing that could work in our favour - this long break. It'll give the England team a chance to take a step back and try to get this out of their system; Australia would probably be happy to go again in a few days. It's all set up for a great match, if England can get back some sort of form. Flintoff's being fit is vital; another good reason to be happy about the long break.
 
It's not just me saying that, it's cricket pundits as well. As for winning at Edgbaston - I very much doubt it; and as for it being even, you've not been in it since Cardiff. That's how even it's been. :p

We were outplayed at lords, but to be honest thats not a big achievement, we were woeful.

Nah we were 262 ahead at Edgbaston, and North would never have gotten out had it been a live game, he was just having some fun at the end. 262 with 6 wickets in hand, with Clarke and North past 100...I don't think England would have won.
 
Pretty simply the English had worse quality bowlers than the Australians, and they bowled too short.

Their batting was also horrible.

Just fix those two things, and they'll be right. :p
 
Let's be honest, the only reason we made it up until the 4th Test without losing was because for some strange reason Stuart Clark wasn't playing.
 
No, Bopara can't handle being given out after hitting the ball.

Umpiring has gone to pot recently. I don't see the problem with it not being out unless you are sure. He was forward and there were two noises as ball passed between bat and pad. Attempting to be right all the time opens up umpires to much more criticism such as the Strauss decision whereas a simple policy of not giving it unless you are sure, especially in the case of LBWs where batsmen getting forward is now worthless due to such a mindset.

manee added 1 Minutes and 56 Seconds later...

Failing that, play Tom Smith just for being Tom Smith.

You gone off Horton? I seem to remember him being the number one batsmen whenever you constructed an England XI.
 
You gone off Horton? I seem to remember him being the number one batsmen whenever you constructed an England XI.

Nah mate, I wasn't being serious about Tom Smith. Maybe in a few years but not yet.

Still love Paul Horton, but he's not in as good form this season as he was last season. I'd still have him over Bopara and Bell though tbf. Mind you, when has form ever been a factor with out selectors anyway. Tools.
 
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Let's be honest, the only reason we made it up until the 4th Test without losing was because for some strange reason Stuart Clark wasn't playing.

Tbf, I doubt he'd have done better than Hauritz or Hilfenhaus and there was no realistic chance (excluding the third Test) of him playing over Johnson or Siddle.
 
Tbf, I doubt he'd have done better than Hauritz or Hilfenhaus and there was no realistic chance (excluding the third Test) of him playing over Johnson or Siddle.

His bowling is tailor made for getting out our top and middle order. If you asked me to name the one bowler i'd like to avoid my team having to bat against then it'd be Stuart Clark.
 
Nah mate, I wasn't being serious about Tom Smith. Maybe in a few years but not yet.

Of course, I never suspected you were being serious. I saw him in a Pro40 game on SkySports a little while back, he certainly seems to have a lot of natural flair to his game. The persistence that Lancs have kept up with him seems to have paid off. India's very own middle order superstar is helping you boys out too at number 3. He hasn't had a great season statistically, but he's got a fair share of runs.

manee added 1 Minutes and 18 Seconds later...

Still love Paul Horton, but he's not in as good form this season as he was last season. I'd still have him over Bopara and Bell though tbf.

Bopara has disappointed me. Anyone who seriously suggested that he'd have currently matured quickly into a top Test batsman was kidding themselves, but he has shown a severe lack of fight against the Aussies. He has to be dropped immediately. He has had chances and shown absolutely nothing impressive during this Ashes series.

manee added 1 Minutes and 52 Seconds later...

His bowling is tailor made for getting out our top and middle order. If you asked me to name the one bowler i'd like to avoid my team having to bat against then it'd be Stuart Clark.

There is no doubt that he should have played but he would not have done better than Hilfy or Hauritz, imo. Keep in mind that both of them have had very good series. Clark is tailor-made for Lords though and not picking him was madness, even more so than not picking him for the first Test. The key at Lords is accuracy (and letting the slope do its thing) and the biggest problem is inaccuracy (because of the slope) so getting an accurate bowler in was hardly rocket science.
 
Bang on about Bopara. I can forgive a batsman having a few technical deficiencies as long as he's got some fight in him and will scrap to protect his wicket. But Bopara is just an overrated batsman with no graft, no fight and is pretty much just a walking wicket. I don't mind him in the one day game, but please just get him away from white clothing.
 

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