5th Test: Australia v England at the SCG - 3-7 Jan

[MUFC1987]

I think there's a school of thought that says they deserve criticism simply because of what they have achieved in the past. The likes of Cook, Bell and KP are very good Test batsmen, as their records show. There's no lack of ability there, yet this series they have been blown away. I'd say it's not because they lack ability, but because they've been lacking mentally, in terms of decision making and simply fear of fast bowling. That deserves criticism for me, even if it is coming from people who have not achieved as much.

 

[Dutch]

I think there's a school of thought that says they deserve criticism simply because of what they have achieved in the past. The likes of Cook, Bell and KP are very good Test batsmen, as their records show. There's no lack of ability there, yet this series they have been blown away. I'd say it's not because they lack ability, but because they've been lacking mentally, in terms of decision making and simply fear of fast bowling. That deserves criticism for me, even if it is coming from people who have not achieved as much.

Agree with you entirely, however criticism is one thing, outright abuse is another: spineless, throwing in the towel, pathetic, scared. That isn't criticism that is just blatant trolling and serves no purpose what-so ever in looking at genuine reasons why world class guys consistently under-performed.

Instead of people just screeching chuck em all in the bin the bunch of losers, lets have a real good look at what these guys DO need to help them perform.

The talent is there, the results are there. Whatever has worked isn't working now, lets identify it and change it.

 

[T.J.Hooker]

I sure do wish all the so called ex England captains and players would STFU. They knew hard times and how it is. To come out as an England player and call the current players the things they have been called by ex-players is a disgrace and unworthy of all the achievements this team HAS done over the past four or five years. Shame on you Hussein and Vaughn and Boycott and Botham and Agnew. Agnew is the worse: what did you achieve Johnathan. Stick the knife in while they are down. Shameless.

I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that anyone reading their pre-series analysis might now conclude that they could have found similar levels of insight by throwing a stick down the street and asking the opinion of whoever it hit.

 

[Dutch]

I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that anyone reading their pre-series analysis might now conclude that they could have found similar levels of insight by throwing a stick down the street and asking the opinion of whoever it hit.

That is a point too.

It really irks me that these guys, who know the dressing-room environment, who know what it is like to suffer badly haven't anything to say by way of support or some form of way forward apart from abuse and chuck them all over a cliff.....

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One area of criticism that stands up for me is that England have been too one-sided in their approach and too defensive. When the conditions suit them they run through sides: when they are on the back-foot they really struggle to come up with effective alternative approaches.

Whatever you think of the victory, the Aussies have bought a brash, arrogant, entertaining form of cricket based on very thorough plans but also spontaneity, risk taking, enjoyment and heart.

 

[T.J.Hooker]

It annoys me a lot more when a tosser who can't even play at all like Piers Morgan does it.

On the other hand, we got to see Piers get his ribs broken while banging on about bravery and simultaneously backing away from the stumps.

 

[War]

AUS & ENG line-ups for the future

Obviously both teams are going to look to the future now after this Ashes series, so this is my final thoughts on how AUS should look in S Africa as they try and begin the new quest to possible be # 1 & how ENG should look for the home summer vs SRI/IND.

ENG

Just like how Duncan Fletcher had to go after the shambolic Ashes 06/07 & W-Cup 2007 - so too now Flower has to go. ENG i don't believe have a bad team like AUS didn't have a bad team this year when Mikey Arthur was playing - but they need a fresh approach.

Not 100% sure who should take over, been hearing whispers of Graham Gooch, but i don't know how realistic that is.

I also would advocate KP being given captain of the test ODI until he retires. ENG in this new phase needs an innovative captain, Cook is the kind of "lead from the front with runs" captain - that only works well if the team is playing well.

ENG in this rebuilding phase needs a captain with similar tactical acumen to Michael Clarke & KP is the only one equipped to do this.

Best XI: Cook, Robson, Compton, KP, Bell, Root, Stokes, Foster, Broad, Anderson, Rankin

Ballance, Taylor, Davies, Finn, Onions, Mills, Meaker, Panesar

Robson: Think Carberry is a solid player that could make runs at test level, but he was well worked out by an AUS bowling attack that bowled as well as any 4-man attack has bowled in history really.

But ENG need to go to youth & axing him for the much hyped young, Sam Robson is the obvious replacement.

Compton: Should never have been dropped, but he must be immediately recalled. He is the perfect # 3 replacement for Trott who is unlikely to return. Ian Bell is a top player but he generally comes across as a reluctant # 3, so just leave him @ # 5.

Their may be times due to emergence of Stokes that ENG will want to play a spinner & 5-bowlers. But this should be assessed on match by match basis - since its obvious ENG don't have an proper all-conditions spinner. Panesar despite his deficiencies remains the best - but he should not be played in all tests.

The choice for the keeper in James Foster is a bit of personal bias. But if the aforementioned balance is selected, this may be the best time to give the best ENG glovesman since Jack Russell a run in the side. However if this doesn't happen - you always have Steven Davies, who is the best performing 4-day keeper in ENG.



AUS

Obviously AUS batting faults were covered by Haddin's superb, Gilchirstesque batting efforts. Watson still has issues & Bailey still needs to convince as test player.

However i've been thinking if Haddin can maintain this batting, which many AUS fans always knew he was capable of @ test level, there is an argument that he could bat @ # 6. This way AUS could include James Faulkner - who i believe is a very talented all-rounder who can bat @ # 7 in a very solid manner.

So may say you don't need him with Watson in as an all-rounder - but i envision that AUS could take a leaf out of the book of Hansie Cronje book in the 90s by stacking the team with all-rounders of real quality. Check out this S Africa XI from 1998:

3rd Test: Australia v South Africa at Adelaide, Jan 30-Feb 3, 1998 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

Kirsten, Bacher, Kallis, Gibbs, Cronje, Rhodes, McMillan, Richardson, Klusener, Pollock, Symcox.

Of course Donald was missing, but regulary in the 90s - SA in their XI had Kallis as the top order all-rounder (Watson doing this currently) & McMillan/Pollock/Klusener as the competent lower-order all-rounder. I can see Faulkner & Johnson doing a similar role. Plus Mitchell Marsh is another one who can force in way into the XI soon - based on his all-round ability too.

So AUS have IMO the personnel to construct a very versatile test XI of players.

 

[Dutch]

With Trott out I would agree with you on Compton and as far as captaincy goes I cant see any alternative to Cook but I would like to see him leading a team with more daring, more real belief and abrasiveness. And he needs to be able to be in charge of everyone in the team: KP and Anderson as well.

 

[Gone4aDuck]

I would be interested to know if Australians enjoyed this 5-0 more than the one in 2006/7? In both cases they regained the ashes, however the team in 2006/7 was much stronger. I'm a neutral when it comes to the ashes, but my guess would be this series.

 

[Dutch]

I would be interested to know if Australians enjoyed this 5-0 more than the one in 2006/7? In both cases they regained the ashes, however the team in 2006/7 was much stronger. I'm a neutral when it comes to the ashes, but my guess would be this series.

I would imagine this one indeed. Clarke and his team were ridiculed throughout the Summer though if truth be told they were a lot better than we wanted to believe. Johnson must be loving it at the moment after all the pie shit he took.

 

[Gone4aDuck]

Johnson must be loving it at the moment after all the pie shit he took.

Got to be the best series he's ever had with the ball, Harris was brilliant too. If you gave me ?1,000,000 to place on bets, I would NEVER have put a penny on 5-0 to Australia.

 

[Umair7]

Pink Wash

 

[Frostyvegi]

To be honest, I can't remember much about the 06-07 series. Memories is like that, you know.

I think what makes this victory so much sweeter, and made the Aussies fight so hard for it was all the predictions coming from the Brits prior to the second series. I'm not one to make predictions about any sporting event very often (I keep expecting Qld to loose against NSW eventually.. but it never happens.. thank god), and when people do so loudly and with such conviction without understanding that it's sport and anything can happen.. makes me laugh when they get found out wanting.

 

[QuickSingle]

Johnson's performance makes you wonder how the series in England would have turned out had he played in it (even at 50% of his best given the conditions). I still don't fully understand why he barely got a mention when AUS were struggling.

I think Cook will do very well to recover mentally from this. He's definitely a bit too choirboy despite his well-documented passion for mucking in with pig farming. The tone of his post series interviews to me suggested that he wouldn't mind being relieved of the duty.
Taking him out of the captaincy firing line might also allow him to regain some form. I struggle to recall when his last century was - NZ home series?
The trouble is, who to replace him with? Vaughan's opinion that KP should either be made captain/vice or be phased out seems a bit extreme, but he's the only one with strong leadership potential. I have no idea about how these guys compare in terms of fielding placements/match strategy...

I also reckon that ENG have missed a Collingwood-type character -gutsy yet down-to-earth. Prior perhaps assumed this role before his abysmal decline in form.

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also an honourable mention for Chris Rogers who hasn't been talked about too much but, if I am not mistaken, top scored across the 2 series.

 

[SpitfiresKent]

May I remind people that the Ashes aren't completely over...

 

[blockerdave]

With Trott out I would agree with you on Compton and as far as captaincy goes I cant see any alternative to Cook but I would like to see him leading a team with more daring, more real belief and abrasiveness. And he needs to be able to be in charge of everyone in the team: KP and Anderson as well.

cook never should have been captain in the first place.

it's ridiculous to have someone who isn't up to the job on a basis of "no alternative". it's the same with bell - he will never ever ever be a number 3 and wishing won't make it so, so we need to a new number 3. cook has no imagination and no tactical nous - he's a yes man in a blazer and got the job because he would continue the strauss attritional, boring, hang in there and hope it swings for jimmy/spins for swanny mentality. we'll never play with attacking intent or imagination while cook/flower are there.

the fact that we look around the squad and say "no alternative" sums up what's wrong with the team: no leadership/imagination, just a bunch of robots lost without their laptop analyst. when something out of the ordinary happens, they can't think on their feet.

we need to look around the circuit and find a youngish player with a bit of promise and has a bit of imagination/flair. hopefully not been around the Lions camp too long to get too indoctrinated into the groupthink - make him captain (after a few series maybe as VC to Pietersen) and support him to the hilt. Stephen Fleming became NZ captain in 23.

all the coaches should go. Flower is the guy who has set the tone for uninspiring cricket the team has played for years. Love Goochie but going so long without passing 400 can no longer be ingored. Saker has to go for what he has done to Finn.

The selectors need to be canned too, it's been ridiculous going back to putting Root to open, the Oval debacle, the makeup of this squad... just ridiculous.