Ashes 2015 - Australia tour of England July/September 2015

I'm sure Billings is a good player, he just doesn't seem to have a proper role in the side. Batting 6/7, not keeping and not bowling just seems pointless.
Well, sure he doesn't have that much of a role when we bat well and we don't really need him to bat (like today), it's crazy to judge him on something like today where he's got to come in and score quickly against a guy bowling 90+ mph. He's not going to work all the time, much like Buttler when he first came into the side. I'd certainly keep him in the side. Him and Stokes at 6 and 7 are pretty strong for me.

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In terms of our best side, I think Root in for Roy with Ali shifting up to open, pretty much ties up the top 7. Two decent bowling options means that we can pick 4 specialist bowlers and still have good options. I'm not convinced on Topley, but he's probably worth a run in the side to have a decent look at. On Rashid, much like any spinner, he's going to have good and bad games. Whilst I wouldn't back him to bowl 4 overs every game, he looks a threat more often that not. Can't see that moving over to Test cricket though, doesn't have enough control for me.
 
Well, sure he doesn't have that much of a role when we bat well and we don't really need him to bat (like today), it's crazy to judge him on something like today where he's got to come in and score quickly against a guy bowling 90+ mph. He's not going to work all the time, much like Buttler when he first came into the side. I'd certainly keep him in the side. Him and Stokes at 6 and 7 are pretty strong for me.

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In terms of our best side, I think Root in for Roy with Ali shifting up to open, pretty much ties up the top 7. Two decent bowling options means that we can pick 4 specialist bowlers and still have good options. I'm not convinced on Topley, but he's probably worth a run in the side to have a decent look at. On Rashid, much like any spinner, he's going to have good and bad games. Whilst I wouldn't back him to bowl 4 overs every game, he looks a threat more often that not. Can't see that moving over to Test cricket though, doesn't have enough control for me.

I was saying all of this about Billings before the NZ series. I haven't got an issue with him. I just don't like the balance of the team with him in it. I also think that Bairstow, Croft, Bopara and Vince would all do better than Billings if England are determined to play 7 batsmen.
 
England were rescued from a serious wobble by Ali and Morgan. The style they're playing needs batting depth. On certain days, three batters will be enough while on some days eleven will be less. It's very easy to chop and change in white ball cricket. The mantra to succeed from what I've seen in the past decade is to back certain chaps for a couple of seasons by removing the fear of them losing their place in the side. This gives them confidence and freedom to perform at their best. I think, England are in a good place. Morgan looks like a guy with a reasonable head as well. The idea of having 15-20 chaps with exposure before the next WC is vital and England would be mad to not keep the faith in a chap like Billings. If his growth is constant, the finished article looks ominous.

I'll really like to see Borthwick in the UAE. But, it won't happen. I think Rashid can be a good LOI bowler. Tests? I'll wait and see. Have my doubts.

It’s a bit outdated saying in England “chap” it might of came back I’m not sure.

But we don’t wear bowler hats and say “how’s it going old chap?” reply “well its bloody marvellous spit spot, terribly frightful weather” (well in some parts of the UK possibly still).

I say this with no offence intended.

We pick up most things from the States now like flip as to selling a house things like that.
 
It’s a bit outdated saying in England “chap” it might of came back I’m not sure.

But we don’t wear bowler hats and say “how’s it going old chap?” reply “well its bloody marvellous spit spot, terribly frightful weather” (well in some parts of the UK possibly still).

I say this with no offence intended.

We pick up most things from the States now like flip as to selling a house things like that.

No offense taken. I play a bit of cricket here in India and have a habit of using 'lads' and 'chaps.'

So, that's why may be.
 
@IceAgeComing Right now its fair to say Scotland have a fairly solid football team under Gordon Strachan, probably their best since the 1990s.

@PokerAce Key difference I guess with your India comparison is that, at least its all one race of people. I don't know if ECB can really do anything to make the modern black english gravitate to cricket like they do for football in masses or athletics or american basketball or make India/Pakistan immigrants support England in majority.

But i do believe it will help grow the base with the non white race/less privileged whites if cricket (home series) to some extent if shown on free to air TV again.
 
@IceAgeComing Right now its fair to say Scotland have a fairly solid football team under Gordon Strachan, probably their best since the 1990s.

@PokerAce Key difference I guess with your India comparison is that, at least its all one race of people. I don't know if ECB can really do anything to make the modern black english gravitate to cricket like they do for football in masses or athletics or american basketball or make India/Pakistan immigrants support England in majority.

But i do believe it will help grow the base with the non white race/less privileged whites if cricket (home series) to some extent if shown on free to air TV again.

Okay while the point is largely taken, India is so so not one race of ppl. India is made up of atleast 3 distinct races. The Tamils in the south, the ... well ... Indians in the north, and the 'asians' in the North east of India. Still one people as you said. Just thought I would clarify that point.

Coming back to Eng-Scotland ... has there ever been a high profile Eng-Scot clash. By high profile i mean in an ICC event. How did the crowds turn out there.
 
@PokerAce Key difference I guess with your India comparison is that, at least its all one race of people.

OMG.....no wonder you never get much right about subcontinent teams :p


also pokerace above has simplified it for you...the actual count would easily go somewhere above 15 odd easily that's just race apart from that if we go by culture then it will reach a mind boggling number..
 
Key difference I guess with your India comparison is that, at least its all one race of people. I don't know if ECB can really do anything to make the modern black english gravitate to cricket like they do for football in masses or athletics or american basketball
But i do believe it will help grow the base with the non white race/less privileged whites if cricket (home series) to some extent if shown on free to air TV again.

How does grass root club level amateur cricket go, to me while TV certainly grabs your attention and gets you into it, its actually playing it that drives passion in a community for the game. In india its the cricket played in the maidans just for fun that actually make us watch the INTL ones and follow it, kids growing with a passion for the game.

So if the asian community and non white community can have these kind of amateur or rookie level cricket going would it help translate to higher levels of interest plus when you play as a community group its spreads around. Also at school level, in india almost all schools will have cricket atleast twice a month and many regularly.
 
I was saying all of this about Billings before the NZ series. I haven't got an issue with him. I just don't like the balance of the team with him in it. I also think that Bairstow, Croft, Bopara and Vince would all do better than Billings if England are determined to play 7 batsmen.
Like I said though, with Stokes and Ali in the top 6, you can afford to have another specialist batsman to come in at 7. The problem is that most of the time, that player is going to come in, in the last few overs to get as many boundaries as possible. Which is what Billings has been doing for Kent the last couple of years, so he deserves a chance at it for me. Bairstow would be a good alternative admittedly, as he showed in the ODI series earlier this summer.

On the others though, I don't think Bopara has the game for that role and Vince would be wasted down the order. When he's on form, he's a great player, but he's got to bat high up, because it's not really his game to come in and just smoke it. I just think in both T20 and ODIs, that position is very specialist and as we saw with Buttler, it can take a little while for a player to make the step up and come good. For me, I'd rather see that chance being given to a young player who has been performing (like Billings) than a guy like Bopara.
 
@PokerAce @grkrama Oh ok cool, that's interesting and weird. I'm by no means an expert of Indian or Asian cultures - but don't recall ever hearing British Indian i've grown up with define themselves as part of 3 or 15 different race groups, even if they may come from different cultural parts of India. Certainly never heard while watching a cricket game where India was playing and commentators explain it that way.

On England vs Scotland, I believe this years world cup was first time they met in a ICC event. But its not worth talking about since its no comparison to rivalry in football and rugby.

On grassroots cricket, the black generation play football at community grassroots, amateur level. Its a very simple dynamic with the under 30 generation of black brits of caribbean/african/mixed race heritage like myself - the sport is expensive and played in private schools and we did not grow up in a era where the West Indies cricket team was dominant.

My parents and grandparents generation had that luxury of proudly supporting Windies in cricket proudly from the 50s-90s which is why so many british born black players played for England back then. Plus in those times playing football as black man in England had serious racial problems.

If you look at county cricket now, Mark Carberry is the last descendant of that old British born black player playing for England in cricket - since he from that era of Alex Tudor, Mark Alleyne, Devon Malcolm, Dean Headley. Guys like Chris Jordan is essentially from Barbados, Chesney Hughes at Derbyshire from Antigua.

Kent Daniel Bell-Drummond and Keith Barker form Warwickshire are born here, but have very strong windies links - Keith Barker: 'I'd happily play for West Indies' | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo

Tymal Mills is first modern football generation influenced black player who has come close to national selectors radar in recent times.

Asian have large amateur cricket leagues, but as mentioned before that doesn't translate to representing England in cricket. The Mooen Ali's, Ravi Bopara, Vikram Solanki, Kabir Ali, Saj Mahmood, Monty Panesar, Samit Patel, Ajmal Shehzad and other low level asians in county cricket are in the minority of wanting to play cricket for ENG. In a lot of ways they have taken over in modern times as main minority cricket representatives from black people.
 
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has there ever been a high profile Eng-Scot clash. By high profile i mean in an ICC event.

...the last World Cup? Dunno about crowds, but I don't think it was at a big ground (it was at one of those smaller nice New Zealand grounds) but I'm sure that it was reasonably full.

The last time they played here was in 2014 but they decided to play in Aberdeen in early May, it didn't really work. Crowd was apparently reasonably big (for Mannofield, which isn't exactly a huge ground) and rather loud, although that's probably because they only started the game at 4pm because it rained so everyone was already rather drunk. They're meant to be alternating ODIs between Scotland and Ireland but based on next years fixture list, they've decided not to bother next year...
 
Very good ODI series coming up. Expect England to edge the Aussies 3-2.

Aussies for very long have had this absurd strategy of playing 3 quicks, Mitch Marsh, Shane Watson and Glenn Maxwell. I think it's poor selection. Personally speaking, they need to start treating Watto as a pure batsman because his bowling has gone to the dogs, drop a batsman and pick Agar.

England XI

Hales
Roy/Vince (If Vince plays, then Ali opens and Vince at 3)
Ali
Morgan
Billings
Buttler
Stokes
Rashid
Willey
Woakes
Finn

Bairstow should be playing, but he's for some unknown reason not in the team.

Aussie line up

Warner
Watson
Smith
Burns/Bailey (if Bailey is going to play the WC)
Maxwell
Marsh
Wade (poor choice in my view) (Pick Paine or groom Whiteman)
Agar
Cummins
Starc
Coulter-Nile
 
Just when England seem to be getting it right, we get ali in at 8 yet again when will they learn??? He isn't a slugger. Open the damn batting with him or send him at 3/4. How he is below slugger like stokes and buttler will forever be beyond me.
 

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