Ashes Cricket 2013 General Discussion

[Karachi]

I have a mixed opinion on this. Even though the new and (hopefully) revolutionary batting technique is hard, we'll learn the basics in a few weeks, and get used to it.

My fear exactly.

I don't if its possible but if a loggin account (offline of course) is created for the game so it can recognize who is playing & keeps tack of how good that human player is becoming & accordingly readjusts the difficulty while playing matches.

 

[Chief]

First bolded point: you cannot directly control the fielders

Second bolded point: for the first time ever we have total control over the fielders

Please explain (a) how that isn't a contradiction and (b) what you define as total control?

Mike Fegan has boasted about how in this game you can move the fielders to anywhere you want on the ground, and not just to set positions. Yes, that is a good feature of course, but it's hardly anything new. It has been missing from recent games but you could do it way back in World Cup Cricket 99.

It's confusing because whilst I was saying this, we were demonstrating on a screen.
What I was saying was that you play the bowler. Not, as in previous games, where you magically change from being the bowler to suddenly being a fielder after the ball was hit.
Instead, as the bowler, you controlled the fielding unit, placing them where you wanted, to suit your bowling plan.

The second part was then showing the field editor, where you have control over each fielder BEFORE bowling, and can pick up any guy and move him where you want.
Maybe I'm wrong: I couldn't recall another cricket game where you could pick up specific fielders and move them to any position, playing to their particular strengths. We've had editors where you could move a "player", but you couldn't choose a particular individual. As in "I want Tim Bresnan THERE, because he's not the quickest and I know I'm going to bowl into an area where the batsman may make him run for it."

 

[whiteninness]

It's confusing because whilst I was saying this, we were demonstrating on a screen.
What I was saying was that you play the bowler. Not, as in previous games, where you magically change from being the bowler to suddenly being a fielder after the ball was hit.
Instead, as the bowler, you controlled the fielding unit, placing them where you wanted, to suit your bowling plan.

The second part was then showing the field editor, where you have control over each fielder BEFORE bowling, and can pick up any guy and move him where you want.
Maybe I'm wrong: I couldn't recall another cricket game where you could pick up specific fielders and move them to any position, playing to their particular strengths. We've had editors where you could move a "player", but you couldn't choose a particular individual. As in "I want Tim Bresnan THERE, because he's not the quickest and I know I'm going to bowl into an area where the batsman may make him run for it."

It's been a while since I played a cricket game but I'm pretty sure in games gone by, maybe just EA ones, you could place specific fielders in specific places. Are you saying that in your previous games you just had random guys in important positions, like the slips? Cricket 97 you definitely put the fielders you wanted in slips and all other positions. Perhaps a bit more research was needed, but I appreciate this was something you were saying on the go and not a pre-prepared written press release.

Also in terms of putting specific guys in positions, yes speed is one attribute but I'd also take into account height, which helps Watson and Cook be first slips. Since the player bodies in Ashes 2013 are all generic you completely lose this element.

I'm also not sure why you put emphasis on it being BEFORE bowling. Maybe there is a cool effect where the camera is behind the bowler and you are looking at the fielders and move them like the actual bowler would. That would be cool, if that is how you've done it (or maybe another cool way) but practically it doesn't add anything new that you didn't previously have by hitting the menu button and then editing the field within that. It's just sexed up an existing game mechanic.

Also, above all of this, even if you have increased the tactical element of setting the fields, I think that is completely separate to the actual control of the fielders. By not having direct control of the fielders it is better that you've improved the placement of them, and by not having control that does make you feel more like a bowler and a bit helpless, but I still don't think it's a good design decision to completely eliminate fielding. I can't think of any sport game I've played where you just can't play as any of the players. Okay, in hockey the saves are automatic because the puck is so fast (but you can do a manual override) but you still pass the puck and maybe it's the same for catchers in baseball, but I've never played baseball. Even then, we're talking about just one player in a specialised position.

In a cricket game when bowling you're saying you can control only 1 out of 11. That'd be fun in a be a pro mode (although then I'd like to control my guy on the field when not bowling) but for the "team mode" it seems like you are controlling anything but the team.

Sure, a good design decision would have been to change the previous system but not to just drop it. To be honest, and I know you won't agree with this, I think fielding was dropped because it was too difficult and there was not enough time. It's quite clear that the game was always rushed for an England Ashes release date, as proven by the delay, and fielding was likely cut early in the piece because it was too tricky to make fun and interesting.

I don't even know how it can be fun and interesting, to be honest. We know a few things about Bradman 14 but no one has played it and knows if the fielding is good.

 

[Chief]

I found it a more interesting way to play. Yes, you sometimes feel helpless as a bowler: but that's just like real life. It created better drama. Better stories. Which was one of our key areas of interest.
It all came from watching real matches and seeing bowler's faces as their field dropped catches. It made for better gameplay than the mini-game where you'd magically become a fielder having bowled the ball and played a mini game.

Fair enough if the "individual control" thing was in a much older game. It was something new to me, and I'd forgotten if it was in there way back: certainly it hadn't been the more recent games: you could usually place "a fielder", but not pick a specific guy to play there.

 

[Ajh1977]

Personally I think ac13 and db14 havin different gameplay is a good thing. If ac13 is similar to previous cricket games then a lot of people are gonna enjoy jumping straight in and playin it. The auto v manual fielding debate doesn't really bother me as apparently you can turn it off in db14 anyway and I didn't enjoy manual fielding in previous games. Db14 seems to have much more complicated controls which some people will struggle with( I'm all thumbs) but once you get the hang of it will prolly be far more satisfying gameplay wise!! Hope both games are fairly different, as I've said before if they're gonna be too similar both companies could have made the game together! I'm looking forward to both, but if db14 comes out 1st and people get to grips with the controls before AC is released I can envisage people snubbing AC anyway. That's if it comes out at all.

 

[whiteninness]

I found it a more interesting way to play. Yes, you sometimes feel helpless as a bowler: but that's just like real life. It created better drama. Better stories. Which was one of our key areas of interest.
It all came from watching real matches and seeing bowler's faces as their field dropped catches. It made for better gameplay than the mini-game where you'd magically become a fielder having bowled the ball and played a mini game.

In terms of comparing what you've done to the mini games of the past, I wouldn't necessarily agree with you but I'd accept that it's a valid argument.

I don't think it's the relevant argument to be having at a design level though. Regardless of the tactical elements you seem to have improved, when it comes to actually controlling the fielding it seems that you have considered two options:

1) Keep the old mini-games,
2) Remove them and make it all automatic.

I think that you have missed out on the most important one:

3) Keep manually fielding but change it to make it fun and engaging.

 

[Lee1981]

but not pick a specific guy to play there.

Wow, you've just convinced me to buy this game now, this new revolutionary idea was the icing in the cake.



Seriously is this supposed to be something that separates you from DB14, yeah good luck with that

 

[blockerdave]

That's if it comes out at all.

it won't

 

[79cricket]

it won't

BDave I must say yesterday when I read you think the game will not release at all or not in November I almost sent a email back to you to defend the game.

I did not because you have a point mate, with there track record nothing would surprise me anymore. PS Still I still hope to see and try the game, good or bad just like Duke/Alien colonial marines in the past. Both these games were bad but I still played and payed money for them after reading so many bad review because I still wanted to try it myself.

Still Mike F it's Monday so hoping for some good news this week.

 

[Chief]

Wow, you've just convinced me to buy this game now, this new revolutionary idea was the icing in the cake.



Seriously is this supposed to be something that separates you from DB14, yeah good luck with that

I'm not trying to convince you dude. Neither am I trying to get you to do revolutionary things like put icing IN your cake as opposed to on top of it.

I'm just explaining the design ideas that were in play when those things were said. And no, it wasn't a design idea to separate the game: those decisions were made way before, when DB14 was still BA10 or BA11. It was an idea to improve fielding from the IC10 game which we'd been toying with for a long while.

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I don't think it's the relevant argument to be having at a design level though. Regardless of the tactical elements you seem to have improved, when it comes to actually controlling the fielding it seems that you have considered two options:

1) Keep the old mini-games,
2) Remove them and make it all automatic.

I think that you have missed out on the most important one:

3) Keep manually fielding but change it to make it fun and engaging.

Lol. You think 3) was never considered? We just never found anything that was as compelling as the route we took.

 

[whiteninness]

I'm not trying to convince you dude. Neither am I trying to get you to do revolutionary things like put icing IN your cake as opposed to on top of it.

I'm just explaining the design ideas that were in play when those things were said. And no, it wasn't a design idea to separate the game: those decisions were made way before, when DB14 was still BA10 or BA11. It was an idea to improve fielding from the IC10 game which we'd been toying with for a long while.

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Lol. You think 3) was never considered? We just never found anything that was as compelling as the route we took.

Well considered perhaps but you have to admit that not doing fielding at all amounts to giving up. There is no way that there is no way to make fielding interesting. Trickstar just happened to not find one.

 

[blockerdave]

79C to be honest i take no pleasure in my prediction. As a cricket fan i would love to have two strong games to play. and i appreciate we arent talking about a faceless entity but people with families, bills to pay and their livelihoods are on the line... but i must say i am very sceptical about this game ever seeing the light of day.

I know MikeF isn't a marketing guy, but i strongly feel if they were going to be releasing this game his behaviour over the last few weeks would have been different. He's basically copy/pasted a "bug-fixing, polishing" spiel, added a mention of marketing assets the last two weeks, hinted at a WIP this week then gone completely silent. It's not the behaviour of someone serious about re-engaging the community and getting positivity back here. (or, if he is serious about that, he is doing an awful job.)

As someone pretty new to this forum i took the time this weekend in both Ashes and Bradman to go back to the beginning, and I have read a lot of posts going back to Sept/Oct of last year in both forums. It's astonishing how 505/Trickstar squandered the goodwill and support they had in this forum, first by ignoring most suggestions of features, then by the release date fiasco.

My reading of the situation is 505 or the licensors are not happy with the quality of what's gone on here, and discussions are goign on behind the scenes of how best to extricate everyone, and get news out the best way. This is not based in insider knowledge, or even industry experience, it's very much an uniformed hunch I'll admit, but it's a hunch.

I hope to be proven wrong, I can honestly say that. I only really have time and money for one of the two games right now, and it will probably be bradman for the career feature if nothing else because i love the idea of be a pro, but equally a few months down the line if AC was out and the feedback was good i would probably buy it too. I have no axe to grind, just calling it as i see it.

P.s you're welcome to email me any time

 

[Chief]

Well considered perhaps but you have to admit that not doing fielding at all amounts to giving up. There is no way that there is no way to make fielding interesting. Trickstar just happened to not find one.

Oh there are ways to make it interesting I'm sure. But none that improved the overall experience of the game more than the route we took.

 

[79cricket]

Well considered perhaps but you have to admit that not doing fielding at all amounts to giving up. There is no way that there is no way to make fielding interesting. Trickstar just happened to not find one.

This problem is not that big for me, never enjoyed the fielding in cricket or cricket games. If bigant nail it great then let's go from there but at the moment I feel there is many more problems with this game.

They need to get the trust back fast, this is not lock-ness monster it's a game and hiding it is only doing them harm.

PS I am not saying show the game today, just give a date and start the ball rolling. Win for them if the game looks good and win for us also as then bigant will open up more than they have.

I have always said, release dates are not as important as getting the fans to see the game but not all of it. The hype machine.

Just look at GTA(sorry MattW) they have not shown much of the game, few trailers and lots of screens and it's out in a weeks times. PS This post was also for BDave as I wrote them together.

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Oh there are ways to make it interesting I'm sure. But none that improved the overall experience of the game more than the route we took.

A lot of eyes will be on bigant in the fielding/bowling/batting chief, if they nail it even close then trickstar will look well simple.

 

[Chief]

Just look at GTA(sorry MattW) they have not shown much of the game, few trailers and lots of screens and it's out in a weeks times.

IS IT? Maybe it doesn't even exist? I challenge Rockstar to release 20mins of gameplay. Otherwise I don't think it really exists.