Ashes Cricket 2013 General Discussion

[79cricket]

We will not know how much the mistakes they have made will cost them till the game is out and sale figures come in. PS I do wonder where mike has gone, will we see him again soon or not.

 

[dadarocks]

EDIT: In fact, I'd add Lara 2005 to that. That and AC09 were incredible, incredible successes.

Yes, even I agree - Lara 2005 was one of the most balanced,solid title. It had the game modes, the "gripping ODI feel" (to quote one of the reviews I've read), a reasonably good AI, etc. I wonder why we don't have many people modding it, even though we have many doing C07 modding...

 

[Biggs]

you're probably right, that i am maybe ascribing too much influence to PC.net

I'm often more right than wrong... call it a gift.

but then again, i just think this sort of platform is going to be a significant source of review, word of mouth etc.

I don't think PC.net is going to make all that much difference to sales, to be honest. Unless Matt/Barmy come to an arrangement to sell the game somehow via PC.net, perhaps as a digital download or something for folks who can't go into a store to buy it, then I really doubt this forum is going to make all that much of a difference sales-wise. What it DOES provide is your second point; positive word of mouth and with social media being at the forefront of most marketing campaigns these days, we do have a fairly large positive-focussed user base that will spread the word. But it's still a very niche sport in a niche games market. Investment and time at PlanetCricket by Ross, Chief and Mike is totally down to the enjoyment factor they get from interacting with their A-Level fans and the value they place on it.

percentage of sales yeah I agree we're a)negligible and b)even a lot of us will buy the game despite the negativity so it's understandable he doesn't care that much...

I don't know if my choice of words was perfect, "care" seems a bit harsh - but I do think he's got bigger things on his plate than playing to the rabble at the Colosseum, especially with the issues they're facing and the delays, that they've been a bit weirdly open about in his updates. As I said earlier, I'd rather not hear about bug problems and testing and prefer to hear the positives - if you compare Ross/Mike and their interaction with us, it's been predominately positive, they've obviously been having problems and challenges (look at the early test shots til now and compare them - like a different product!) but they've kept mostly quiet about that and when they've had something to share, they've released it into the wild and taken feedback constructively. Whereas, the 505/Trickstar team have always held all their cards VERY close to their chest for either licensing reasons or protection of their product. So it's just two different styles of interaction, neither more valuable to us than the other... But you can't say X is doing it right and Y is doing it wrong, because neither game has hit the shelves yet and we won't know how effective either approach has been until we play the games and decide for themselves if the hype (or lack of it) lives up to our expectations.

my scepticism about the game ever seeing the light of day is mostly driven by the manner/lack of engagement here and lack of attempt to turn around the negativity , so looking at it more your way it's highly likely i'm wrong. i actually hope i am.

Yup, I think the biggest weakness and the one mistake from Chief was not simply to own up about the delay. Had they been upfront with that from the start, since it wasn't really a secret, then the position they find themselves in would be a little more generally positive towards the delay. All it needed was a "guys, the games not perfect... we're delaying it to get it even better for you all" and there wouldn't have been a problem. One project has been shrouded in more mystery than the other - but that's ONLY because one team has made a cricket game before in the past and that's how they've ALWAYS done it. BigAnt have come along and taken a COMPLETELY different approach to the community here and the openness with what their product is...

deep down my hunch is ashes was always designed as a cricket "game", and bradman as a cricket "simulation"... and 505/trickstar have been shocked that there is much more enthusiasm for the simulation, and are struggling to turn that around. they've fallen between two stools and don't know how to extricate themselves. i wouldn't be surprised if we don't see a game this year but see another 505 attempt for 2015 ashes.

I don't know about that. From what we know, the BigAnt product has been in development for YEARS longer than the Ashes product. It's been on the backburner for a while, but with more resources being added to it there's clearly a more adventurous innovative approach that the BigAnt guys have taken on, with a focus on features and personalization/customization... whereas the Ashes guys have put their energy into securing licenses for the title and sponsors to match their previous efforts because that's what they've ALWAYS done. So I don't think either game is going to be "less cricket" than the other - they're just going to be two very different styles of game, visually and aesthetically. What we do know is Ashes is going to be a more traditional style of cricket game and pretty much what we expect it to be, just spruced up for a modern consumer... the BigAnt title is going to be the underdog, with different mechanics and a WHOLE bunch of features implemented in a way we've not seen before.

We're spoiled, really. Whether the engagement is there or not, we're getting two games and they'll both speak for themselves in a few months.

 

[blockerdave]

From what we know, the BigAnt product has been in development for YEARS longer than the Ashes product.

Is it years? I thought from some of the reading around i've done on this forum we're looking at 3 years for ashes, 4 years for bradman? now granted as you point out with the difference in the pics big ant first put out and now, that year has made a huge difference in terms of polishing, but that is set against previous experience in the genre so it should kind of even out.

 

[Biggs]

Is it years? I thought from some of the reading around i've done on this forum we're looking at 3 years for ashes, 4 years for bradman?

Around 2010/11 I believe was when they first announced starting on a Cricket title at BigAnt, things probably moved into full swing end of 2011 so we can say a full 2 years in active development and 4 years overall. Ashes Cricket was announced as in full development end of 2012, but we can assume based on the delay that they weren't nearly as advanced as BigAnt currently is on their product, so lets assume they began work beginning of 2012 and a full year of development puts them at 2 years overall.

The difference in development times is down to BigAnt being predominately footy/league focused and Trickstar/Codemasters drama as well as retaining the core team of guys that have built cricket games in the past so they wern't working "from nothing" as much as the BigAnt guys were. Which shows in the two completely different approaches to the style of games, one being more "traditional" and the other being a top to bottom reinvention.

 

[blockerdave]

i thought in both cases it was longer for some reason.

i do thing i am right about the game/simulation aspect though, and i think the fielding illustrates this.

Ashes: "who enjoys fielding? nobody. these are guys with controllers not jonty rhodes. let's let em worry about batting and bowling"

DBC: "fielding is an important part of the game. let's try and make it realistic but fun."

 

[Biggs]

Ashes: "who enjoys fielding? nobody. these are guys with controllers not jonty rhodes. let's let em worry about batting and bowling"

I think it was more "what can we realistically achieve in the time and budget that we have been given" and the reality is fielding IS boring to "play" because no-one has ever figured out a way to make it exciting and inviting...

DBC: "fielding is an important part of the game. let's try and make it realistic but fun."

I think it was more "we haven't shoehorned ourselves into contractual arrangements to deliver a game, so lets explore every possible element we can right through to the end and see what works and what doesn't". They've given themselves plenty of time with no pressure from licenses or other parties to deliver a half-baked game and have instead invested time (and money) into every element of the game including how to do justice to the experience of fielding. Have they got it right? Who knows... we haven't seen much from that part of the game, but the fact it EXISTS as an option is a step in the right direction.

_______________

Awesome discussion btw... there's positives to a dead area of a forum is you actually get to discuss interesting stuff without the rabble...

 

[blockerdave]

Awesome discussion btw... there's positives to a dead area of a forum is you actually get to discuss interesting stuff without the rabble...

MikeF will be very happy when he checks in and sees how "alive" the forum has become.

Might wear off when he starts reading them though...

 

[Bevab]

Can't believe that people joke about bankruptcy and wish it on a company.

 

[blockerdave]

Can't believe that people joke about bankruptcy and wish it on a company.

absolutely - truly out of order.

 

[Biggs]

MikeF will be very happy when he checks in and sees how "alive" the forum has become.

Might wear off when he starts reading them though...

See here's the thing; I think despite his apathy towards the forum, he wouldn't be here if he didn't see SOME sort of value in it. I think most normal folks would encourage healthy debate and constructive criticism of their product, especially in a forum environment where you can hear from, I suppose, 'experts' of the cricket gaming world. By no means am I suggesting I'm an EXPERT (I'm not) but I do have a sense of what makes a good game, or what might make a good game and that's ultimately why we're all here...

...and ultimately why Mike being a part of that discussion would be valuable.

Now, that being said... every time someone compares the game to Ashes09 in a negative light* or blabs on about how the graphics look like a Nintendo64** THAT isn't constructive and therefore, Mike is well within his right to not want to be a part of that. It's all how we handle ourselves in our interaction. Be vocal, be critical and hell, have a bit of FUN doing it... but be smart. There's no need to kick a guy while he's down, we all know they're struggling and calling a spade a spade is fine, as long as it's reasonably factual based. Saying ---- like "I hope they go bankrupt" is not what this place is for, neither the impression we want to give to developers who we WANT to take part in open discussions about their product.




*It's a great game and I expect those making that comparison have never played it

**Usually morons.

 

[MattW]

I really reject that idea that it's strange for you to switch from the bowler to the fielder as part of play.

The only time it makes sense that you are only one player is if you are exclusively one player by virtue of a career mode that means you choose one and stick with it - being the 'bowler' at both ends is no more realistic than catching and bowling on the same ball.

If I am playing a cricket simulation game, I expect to be able to control all players on the field - just like you control all footballers on a pitch and all basketball players on a court. Every representation of team sports involves accepting the idea that you are 'god' controlling a team, not one player - especially not one player that changes from over to over.

By the description thus far, I still see absolutely no reason why you shouldn't be able to include all of that, plus a genuine fielding mechanic. No game has done better than IC2010 at a fielding mechanic.

A thought process that tried to come up with a better fielding system and came up with a player management approach as their solution is one that didn't come up with an answer to the problem of fielding mechanics - so go with the best you've achieved to date.

If some people didn't like IC2010's fielding, give them an option to turn it off - but replacing it with no option at all to control what happens with the ball after it leaves the bowlers hand is throwing away half of the game while bowling.

If I wanted to captain a team and have no interaction, I would play Cricket Coach.

 

[Chief]

I really reject that idea that it's strange for you to switch from the bowler to the fielder as part of play.

The only time it makes sense that you are only one player is if you are exclusively one player by virtue of a career mode that means you choose one and stick with it - being the 'bowler' at both ends is no more realistic than catching and bowling on the same ball.

If I am playing a cricket simulation game, I expect to be able to control all players on the field - just like you control all footballers on a pitch and all basketball players on a court. Every representation of team sports involves accepting the idea that you are 'god' controlling a team, not one player - especially not one player that changes from over to over.

By the description thus far, I still see absolutely no reason why you shouldn't be able to include all of that, plus a genuine fielding mechanic. No game has done better than IC2010 at a fielding mechanic.

A thought process that tried to come up with a better fielding system and came up with a player management approach as their solution is one that didn't come up with an answer to the problem of fielding mechanics - so go with the best you've achieved to date.

If some people didn't like IC2010's fielding, give them an option to turn it off - but replacing it with no option at all to control what happens with the ball after it leaves the bowlers hand is throwing away half of the game while bowling.

If I wanted to captain a team and have no interaction, I would play Cricket Coach.

All valid, interesting, well thought-out points, offered as personal opinion rather than "the right answer".

And THAT's what developers come here for.

 

[Dutch]

Trickstar has been shutdown?? Company has gone bankrupt??

The only bankrupt thing going on here is your sense of tact and taste. Might look good in the swamps that are the Ashes 2013 Facebook page but we try to get past the stage of dribbling on our own clothes here.....

 

[sounak_patra]

Where is the weekly update ? Can anyone please give me the link. Thanks