Ashes Cricket General Discussion

[blockerdave]

Yes the AI slogging to maintain a run rate, regardless of mentality, of 3.5 is incredibly poor in 2018. I don't know why we need this target per over, except in the latter overs of an ODI..

Was this present in the day one build @blockerdave ? Was it present when you guys were beta testing?

Maybe going forward (although I don't believe BA will touch this game again, let alone actually engage with the beta team), we could have different target run rates for different mentalities. (If we have to have that system)

It was present but much better / less obvious and not as grating. It's one of the clearest and worst deteriorations in the post release builds and what gives me little confidence in the game being fixed.

I'm certain BA didn't introduce it deliberately. But equally I'm certain they don't fully understand their own system and the impact of changes. Assuming they do anything else meaningful with the game the pattern of random improvements/deteriorations will continue.

To take a not totally random example, there are people at BA with a quite important role in this title who don't know how pitches/conditions affect play. It's therefore difficult for that aspect to improve except by accident - there's obviously no clearly defined acceptance criteria for what they should do, so they cannot be properly tested.

 

[blockerdave]

Was it more aggressive from the AI in the second innings or were they just able to cream it to the boundary because their confidence is up? Or did it seem like they were setting a target?

I had a quick bat with a couple of batsmen with strength set at 10 and 15 and it was really good. Once you get to green confidence you can start hitting boundaries with normal shots but before that you have to rely on aggressive or lofted shots.

AI bowling is the biggest problem with this game. I think with a real effort to improve it could be better, but I'm not certain we will see the improvements to this game that are required, more just fixing what is there already.

If the speed gun is to be believed they consistently bowl too slow - like four or five balls of a Fast Medium bowlers over is sub 80mph. Just make it simple - Medium pacers with bowling speed range of 65-74mph (0 skill = 65, 100 skill = 74). Add a Medium-Fast bowling option - have one bowling style come off a short run up and the other two off Fast Medium run ups. It makes no sense to me why medium-fast bowlers aren't an option. Have bowling speed range 75-82. Then Fast Medium 83-88 and Fast bowlers range from 89 to 100.

The mentalities need to be changed completely or at least be more realistic or effective. Perhaps it would be useful to keep the mentality and add a style in the bowling skill section of the academy. Or, if the delivery types are as meaningless as the shot types, then use them differently. Have them be a selection box to determine what deliveries a bowler has in their skill set. So for a seamer you choose:

• 'Stock Ball': you get options for Out Swing, In Swing, Seam. - which will determine the ball they ball four or five times an over. Maybe a higher swing skill also means they are better as swinging it the other way, so some bowlers have no problem bowling in and out swing, other might be weaker when attempting the one that isn't their stock. Also make it that the stock delivery is consistent for left and right handers, not so they can bowl great out swing to both right and left.
• 'Natural length': 'Full, Good, Short' - which will determine the length they most frequently bowl or at least the range they look for
• 'Change up': Slower Ball, Cutter, Bouncer, Yorker (maybe a 'tick box' to determine which they are good at)*
• 'Style': Conservative - a bowler who aims for a consistent line and length. Precise - a bowler who varies line and length a little. Aggressive - a bowler who targets the stumps. Brute - a bowler who targets the batsman - short stuff. Balanced - a bowler who switches mentality depending on the state of the ball or match situation, so they might come in and bowl a good length early in an innings or when the ball is still new but then look to target the stumps or try short stuff later.

For spinners remove the stock ball - assume they will always bowl and off spinner or leg spinner first and foremost. Change that to a style or mentality option. Conservative - a bowler who perhaps bowls 1 variation per over and rarely changes the line and length. Precise - a bowler who uses flight and bounce to vary their stock delivery and throws in one or two variations per over depending on confidence. Aggressive - one who just from the off starts targeting the stumps through variation and changes in flight and bounce but still primarily focuses on the stock delivery. Then just let us choose Variation 1, Variation 2 and Variation 3 or leave them empty.*

Primarily the variation comes from changes in line, length, flight, bounce - not just have off spinners sending down doosras and top spinners all day with an off spin as a variation.

*Have this information be something that impacts the human player too when using bowlers - allow us to bring up the information on screen in matches to see which ball we should try as a change up and if we choose to bowl a doosra with a bowler that can't bowl one then just have the AI smash it until we learn our lesson. Or if you bowl too frequently outside a bowlers natural length, before they are confident, there is a reduction in accuracy.

It felt like a controlled step up in the rate. For a large portion of the innings they ran at 3.8 to 4 an over, with few aerial shots. Most players scored less in 2nd inns than first (i know I know, regression to the mean).

It felt different to other 2nd inns I've played, but i may be projecting a narrative onto it.

 

[blockerdave]

I think to your pitch point I'd agree the wear mechanics is very slow. I usually start on Uneven and Light Cracks. I also use gameplay modifiers to make gameplay according to the pitch e.g. increasing Pitch Friction and Swing for green tracks. I've had great matches with a different response on different pitches and different grounds.

Also there was a discussion about edges on defensive shots. I personally believe it's well balanced in the game. In real life Batsmen edge while playing defensive shots is because they are stuck on the crease and push at the ball. I am sure if we are using precision shots we'd get those defensive edges. Having said that, I'd like the game to have poor footwork mechanics incorporated in their graphics, in the next iteration

I'd respectfully disagree about defensive shots being well balanced, though I accept (to an extent) the footwork point.

I also refuse to use sliders. BA haven't told us what they mean or what effect they have. So any changes I make (what to change, intensity of change, when to change) is entirely random. They should make pitches with character that change over time or they shouldn't bother with a sport where that is a fundamental part of the outcome.

 

[Punk_Sk8r]

Cricket is such a complex game, I'm not sure there is another game with so many variables that affect play. Throw in to that the sheer array of human interactions and it's no wonder no one has managed to crack a really good digital representation of the sport. The problem is, unlike football, baseball, ice hockey, etc, you can not strip out elements of the game and focus on the basics. I mean you can, but you'll only get half the experience.

In hockey, ice is ice and in football grass is grass. Yes there are some nuances beyond that that effect elements of gameplay, but as a whole, you can still have a reasonable simulation of the sport without modelling in changes to the playing surface. In cricket, the playing surface IS part of the game.

On the other hand, you have golf, where the playing surface has a huge impact on the game, however the ball remains identical throughout. So you model in some more detailed surface conditions, but the ball will always interact with them the same. In cricket, the condition of the ball IS part of the game.

You simply couldn't make an engaging cricket game without different surface conditions and evolving ball conditions. Even in it's simplest form (T20), the pitch will be different game to game, but also over to over. The ball is constantly changing over the course of 20 overs.

This is just 2 basic elements of the game. Factor in wind, humidity, dew point, seem position, bowler height, ball trajectory, ball velocity, batsman stance, batsman mentality, batsman strength, bat size, bat velocity, position of ball on bat, etc. it really is the quantum physics of sports simulation with each element interacting with each other element in a way not a lot of lay people understand.

Yes of course and it was done to some degree in EA games so why not in recent games? In the EA games a grassy wicket would give you random seam movement bowling the stock delivery, a wet pitch would be slow with low bounce and slow outfield, hard pitch would bounce a great deal, dry/dusty would spin with no movement from the ball and normal pitch you would get seam movement a little bit but not as much as grassy. They would have implemented it better but for the time that was good. BA could improve upon this majorly.

Also make it look like you're playing on a different wicket, they all look the same...

 

[wasteyouryouth]

I've noticed while bowling with Peter Kirsten, some of his top spinners span like huge doosras. I think only when used with the fast trigger, or maybe only with ideal input. Not sure - it wasn't every one and I didn't see a definite pattern. This might be part of the issue - maybe the AI isn't selecting a doosra but the top spinner and it's turning wrong.

That's definitely the case, in game top spinners go the other way. Whichever it is there still doesn't need to be three an over.

 

[PotsnPans]

In the EA games a grassy wicket would give you random seam movement bowling the stock delivery, a wet pitch would be slow with low bounce and slow outfield, hard pitch would bounce a great deal, dry/dusty would spin with no movement from the ball and normal pitch you would get seam movement a little bit but not as much as grassy. They would have implemented it better but for the time that was good. BA could improve upon this majorly.

God I remember that. So many times on those wet pitches I'd tried to play a back foot defensive shot and the ball would bounce underneath the bat and I'd get clean bowled. Some of the bat-pad dismissals on those EA games with the spinners were exceptional though.

 

[Dean johnes]

Please I beg for an patch update news.

 

[Punk_Sk8r]

God I remember that. So many times on those wet pitches I'd tried to play a back foot defensive shot and the ball would bounce underneath the bat and I'd get clean bowled. Some of the bat-pad dismissals on those EA games with the spinners were exceptional though.

I never saw a bat pad in an EA game I don't think, but then again I always avoided playing on wet/damp pitches because I thought they looked ugly

 

[silentuk]

Is there a way to change the teams in the English County Cup? Was planning to play the County Championship but would rather not have the divisions sorted alphabetically. That seems a rather strange design choice to me. I can't see a way to edit the teams in each division though.

If not is there a way to create a 2 division first class league? I'm probably missing something obvious but can't see how to do it. I know I can create an 8 team league and a 10 team league but would be nice to feel the whole thing was being played out together.

 

[Mrakh]

I wish they could make the non-striker move of the way of the ball, the amount of times that I hit a perfect straight drive only for it to hit my teammates leg and result in a dot ball is ridiculous.

 

[Langeveldt]

It was present but much better / less obvious and not as grating. It's one of the clearest and worst deteriorations in the post release builds and what gives me little confidence in the game being fixed.

I'm certain BA didn't introduce it deliberately. But equally I'm certain they don't fully understand their own system and the impact of changes. Assuming they do anything else meaningful with the game the pattern of random improvements/deteriorations will continue.

To take a not totally random example, there are people at BA with a quite important role in this title who don't know how pitches/conditions affect play. It's therefore difficult for that aspect to improve except by accident - there's obviously no clearly defined acceptance criteria for what they should do, so they cannot be properly tested.

I'm really sick that I've paid £50 for a good cricket game that has been patched into a bad cricket game and there is nothing that can be done about it.

I am going to delete the patches and go to the dodgy release build and see if I can create two teams whose lineups stick ...

EDIT - I seem to be able to get lineups to stick if I create a new team and only change the default lineup. This is massive and might mean I can stay on the "Ben Stokes build" with my own teams.

 

[blockerdave]

I'm really sick that I've paid £50 for a good cricket game that has been patched into a bad cricket game and there is nothing that can be done about it.

I am going to delete the patches and go to the dodgy release build and see if I can create two teams whose lineups stick ...

EDIT - I seem to be able to get lineups to stick if I create a new team and only change the default lineup. This is massive and might mean I can stay on the "Ben Stokes build" with my own teams.

i'm pretty sure the on-disc build was worse than we have now. but the day-one was much better.

 

[Langeveldt]

i'm pretty sure the on-disc build was worse than we have now. but the day-one was much better.

I'm bowling at aggressive Cook 46 (51) and he has brought out two reverse sweeps. So it appears the 3.5 run to the over bug (and it is a bug), isn't present. I'm sure there will be loads of stuff wrong (pitch settings dont stick and no deep singles to fielders), but it's fun just seeing someone bat according to their mentality

 

[blockerdave]

I'm bowling at aggressive Cook 46 (51) and he has brought out two reverse sweeps. So it appears the 3.5 run to the over bug (and it is a bug), isn't present. I'm sure there will be loads of stuff wrong (pitch settings dont stick and no deep singles to fielders), but it's fun just seeing someone bat according to their mentality

you've always had a touching belief in the law of small numbers.

 

[Langeveldt]

you've always had a touching belief in the law of small numbers.

Yeah agreed, I'll wait until some conservative guys start smashing it around.

I can prove with some bigger numbers that none of the sliders meant anything in DBC14, and that's why I'll always view whatever BA do with a hefty dose of cynicism.

However, I remember a few months ago saying "hang on, mentalities seem to have disappeared" and everyone was like "nooo they are there." Try getting a first innings of over 4 or around 2 an over in a test match on the last build. I've been watching cricket for 20 years and working in it for 10, so can sniff when something is up.