Australia ODI side named

[hedger_14]

Well Australia are making a big mess once again. What are they planning on doing, playing both Doherty and Hauritz in the next match?

Can't believe Hussey got picked over Hodge though and I think Christian should have got a callup as well. Which day does the WC squad get named? I know it's after the first ODI but before the second.

 

[aussie1st]

Well Australia are making a big mess once again. What are they planning on doing, playing both Doherty and Hauritz in the next match?

Can't believe Hussey got picked over Hodge though and I think Christian should have got a callup as well. Which day does the WC squad get named? I know it's after the first ODI but before the second.

Agree this side is only for the first ODI so they have named 14 players for this match including two spinners. So unless they plan on playing both they should have picked the one they want. That is not to mention the extra pacemen we have as well. Just a total mess and I wouldn't expect anything less. Our 15 man squad has to be named on the 19th.

 

[War]

His form wasn't much better last season either, he averaged 33 far from a guy saying pick me again. The guy has been dropped and all he has done since that time was average 33 and 23, I don't care if you have potential if you aren't performing then you shouldn't be picked again. What does that tell other players looking to be picked? Perform like crap and you will get a gig? Hodge and Christian who have been killing it for the past two seasons are suddenly over looked for a guy that isn't even averaging half of what they are.

Preferably of course you would want to always pick players from your domestic competitions for international cricket based on strong domestic performances.

But many players around the world have been picked on raw ability because a selectors liked what they saw. Maybe AUS during the glory days never really did it, but its not unprecedented.

Dussey IMO is far better than his recent domestic ODI stats show & id back him to do well. So for once i fully support the selectors reasoning behind recalling him. Also i would pick Hodge as well.

I wouldn't be hyping Christian just yet although he may be having a great season. Based on what he showed of his ability in international T20s last year & watching the game ENG played againts the Prime Minister XI the other night. I'm not too impressed with him, i would pick Hastings over him any day.

You have the wrong members, they were the ones defending him. His SR has been a lot better this year, I believe it was 83 which is more than acceptable especially if the guy is averaging 45. If you take him out and put in Dussey who scores 30 and then gets out then you will see more of what happened in the Ashes.

Just ran a random search & these are some of the recent comments i found from some posters about the Clarke ODI problem from the ODI series vs ENG & IND last year.

Robellina:
http://www.planetcricket.org/forums/1864884-post422.html

Australia's number 4 batsmen for the last 20 years have been excellent finishers, except Clarke. He just doesnt have the shots. When Martyn moved to 4 he provided some great late order hitting after coming in early. Clarke really stands out for his lack of big hitting. I would say he's the least aggressive batsmen we have picked since Hayden in 93.

Num: http://www.planetcricket.org/forums/1864929-post424.html

Thing is, I don't see Australia going past 300 if Clarke scores more than 50 and seeing as the 2011 World Cup is going to be held in the subcontinent, we are probably going to bat on a few flat tracks that are going to be great for batting where 300 will be a very chaseable target. For me, Clarke will generally ensure we get between 250 and 300, but on the flat tracks, anything below 300 against South Africa, India, Sri Lanka and Pakistan (on a good day) will be quite tough to defend.

cricketmad09 http://www.planetcricket.org/forums/1972160-post2317.html

The way Clarke has been batting since 2008, I reakon all we're waiting for is some talented young batsmen to come on and he should be dropped from the ODI team. His strike rate since 2008 is 69. That is pathetic. Definately not good enough for a captain or vice captain. He consistently fails when he needs to step up. When Australia have lost his average is 29 and strike rate is in the 60's. Compare that with Mike Hussey who's average and strike rate are only slightly less in defeat compared to success.

sami ullah khan

http://www.planetcricket.org/forums/1972240-post2323.html

What the hell is Clarke doing. Its too bloody slow by international standards. Strike rate of below seventy is not acceptable in modern cricket.

angryangy

http://www.planetcricket.org/forums/1972339-post2342.html

The chase will be interesting. Australia's openers looked about 25 short (at least), but White clearly piled on an utterly inordinate number at the end (all up, 114 from the last 10). There was also a big score from the ever-maligned Clarke in the mix and the eternal question is whether he could have scored faster at some point.

India bring a rather untested batting order, to face Australia's rather experimental bowling attack. There might even be some dew thrown in for good measure. Who knows what is a good target?

Also as i said. I'd more so have Hodge @ # 4 instead of Dussey. In a full strenght AUS ODI XI, Dussey would be part of 15 man WC squad - but not the main XI. The top 6 for me is Watson/Haddin/Ponting/Hodge/White/M Hussey.

 

[aussie1st]

With regards to his ODI form as i said before during 2009 the selectors messed him up by not giving him a settled position in ODIs vs SA, NZ, PAK. That was period when alot of the main players where out injured & Dussey was being roated between # 4-6 every game. So by recalling him now, they need to let him bat in one position & give him a set role.

First off being moved around the batting order is the norm for new batsmen. If you aren't good enough to take your opportunity then tough luck. Clarke, Ferguson, Mike Hussey all had the same treatment, unlike Dussey they did something to cement themselves into the side. Also he was given 7 straight matches at 4 to cement himself (4 against NZ in Aus, 3 against SA in SA). That is more than enough time to do something, he had one good score in that time the rest were below par for a number 4.

As for Clarke I'm not despiting his poor finishing that is one side he could improve on. But there is no way he deserves to be dropped. He had the best average of the Australian batsmen last year at 55, the next closest was Mike Hussey at 45. His strike rate was 79 which is more than acceptable compared to what he was doing in previous years where it was in the low 70s. I will also point out he had a better strike rate than Dhoni who was at 78. He was in the top 10 run scores for last season and played less games than some of the guys above him.

 

[6ry4nj]

But many players around the world have been picked on raw ability because a selectors liked what they saw. Maybe AUS during the glory days never really did it, but its not unprecedented.

As long as when their 'courageous' selections fail, they face the ensuing firing squad without a blindfold.

I agree that some of the best selection decisions - of good selectors - are based on gut instinct. But making decisions you can't back up with evidence ought to be a do-or-die moment for a selector. Anyone can make a mistake, but that's why most people cover their a***s with stats.

Otherwise any insane selection (including the recent Doherty, Smith and Beer) can be justified.

 

[War]

First off being moved around the batting order is the norm for new batsmen. If you aren't good enough to take your opportunity then tough luck. Clarke, Ferguson, Mike Hussey all had the same treatment, unlike Dussey they did something to cement themselves into the side. Also he was given 7 straight matches at 4 to cement himself (4 against NZ in Aus, 3 against SA in SA). That is more than enough time to do something, he had one good score in that time the rest were below par for a number 4.

Nah man thats a very harsh way to look @ it. Again with Australia during the glory years with competition always so tight, you basically had to take your chances in the test & ODI sides because if took too long to adapt another player would slot right in.

But with other nations players aren't held at such as high standard. Players start & struggle - then get recalled & perform all the time & the examples are endless.

So with Dussey for me & the selectors its a situation of backing his clear natural ODI ability to come good, since if it does it will be devastating. I also dont think # 4 is his best role in the ODI set-up if he where to play in the main XI. I would have him batting @ # 6.

As for Clarke I'm not despiting his poor finishing that is one side he could improve on. But there is no way he deserves to be dropped. He had the best average of the Australian batsmen last year at 55, the next closest was Mike Hussey at 45. His strike rate was 79 which is more than acceptable compared to what he was doing in previous years where it was in the low 70s. I will also point out he had a better strike rate than Dhoni who was at 78. He was in the top 10 run scores for last season and played less games than some of the guys above him.

Yea & despite that flaw i have before defended his position:

http://www.planetcricket.org/forums/1864677-post420.html

Yea, thats the only problem with him slightly. In a perfect scenario Clarke would score his runs(a 50) in the middle overs & get out in before the last 10 overs begins. Which usually has been the case since his game has changed since 2007.

Its just in this series when he has ended up batting in the last 10 overs. He isn't batting with a hitter like White, Hussey. His lacking big-hitting ability which makes him a joke T20 player gets exposed.

Its a minor flaw that i think we could tolerate from him. Since 90-95% its not going to cost Australia.

All im saying now is that regardless of how brilliant pup as been @ # 4. In Hodge AUS potentially have a more complete # 4, who wouldn't have that achilles heel that Pup has.

----------

As long as when their 'courageous' selections fail, they face the ensuing firing squad without a blindfold.

I agree that some of the best selection decisions - of good selectors - are based on gut instinct. But making decisions you can't back up with evidence ought to be a do-or-die moment for a selector. Anyone can make a mistake, but that's why most people cover their a***s with stats.

Otherwise any insane selection (including the recent Doherty, Smith and Beer) can be justified.

Haha ye. Key point here actually with the selectors tending to covering themselves with stats for players who clearly when they come on the international stage dont look anywhere as good as their domestic stats suggest i.e Smith

Thats why given the gulf in quality between domestic & international cricket worldwide. Selectors at times need to actually watch a player who is killing it in domestic cricket & ask themselves "does this guy really have the skillset, that other proven international players have shown that you need to have to be successful in test/odi/t20s"?.

I dont think too much selectors ask themselves that question worldwide.

 

[aussie1st]

So with Dussey for me & the selectors its a situation of backing his clear natural ODI ability to come good, since if it does it will be devastating. I also dont think # 4 is his best role in the ODI set-up if he where to play in the main XI. I would have him batting @ # 6.

This is a rubbish way to select a player. At least if you are going to pick someone to live up to their potential, pick a player in form. The selectors have been made to look stupid once again by dumping a player and then picking him with no form. I don't think any other country has this policy because it is that stupid. And if Dussey can't bat 4 then there is no point having him in the squad. Also Mike Hussey already bats 6 and Ferguson is a much better replacement than Dussey, not to mention actually performed when he was picked.

All im saying now is that regardless of how brilliant pup as been @ # 4. In Hodge AUS potentially have a more complete # 4, who wouldn't have that achilles heel that Pup has.

6th ODI: India v Australia at Nagpur, Oct 14, 2007 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
7th ODI: India v Australia at Mumbai, Oct 17, 2007 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

Yep a very complete number 4, Hodge didn't even get to the death overs.

 

[6ry4nj]

Haha ye. Key point here actually with the selectors tending to covering themselves with stats for players who clearly when they come on the international stage dont look anywhere as good as their domestic stats suggest i.e Smith

Thats why given the gulf in quality between domestic & international cricket worldwide. Selectors at times need to actually watch a player who is killing it in domestic cricket & ask themselves "does this guy really have the skillset, that other proven international players have shown that you need to have to be successful in test/odi/t20s"?.

I dont think too much selectors ask themselves that question worldwide.

Do you seriously think there were stats to back Smith's (Test) selection? I'm talking about over a career or at least a full season, not just his last two games.

 

[War]

This is a rubbish way to select a player. At least if you are going to pick someone to live up to their potential, pick a player in form. The selectors have been made to look stupid once again by dumping a player and then picking him with no form. I don't think any other country has this policy because it is that stupid. And if Dussey can't bat 4 then there is no point having him in the squad. Also Mike Hussey already bats 6 and Ferguson is a much better replacement than Dussey, not to mention actually performed when he was picked.

Well following Dussey in the this year in Ryobi cup, do interpret by watching him bat that his lack of big runs in that format is due him being technically exposed in OD cricket. Or is it a situation of him getting starts but getting out?.

Since if it was a case of the former & his OD batting was such a worry why would Nottinghamshire every year waste money behind to play in the pro 40 competition over here, even if his stats in AUS Domestic OD cricket may be below par then?.

Fact is they like me & selectors see a player with all the basic skills needed to be a top ODI player. Its very unusual for a player to be so excellent in T20s but not translate that ability in ODIs.

His selection for the ODIs over Ferguson also doesn't mean that Ferguson isn't rated anymore. Dussey is being put on trail again, if he clicks in this ODI series his all-round package is more valuable in the sub-continent that Ferguson & Hodge thats obvious. But if he struggles to adjust, Ferguson or Hodge can come right back into the WC squad.

In the best AUS ODI for the WC as i said before Dussey wont start & nor would Ferguson. The top 7 is going to be Watson/Haddin/Punter/Pup/Bear/M Hussey/Smith.

So Dussey is going as the back-up batsman instead of Ferguson/Hodge & his best position will be to bat @ # 6. Since M Hussey & White are versatile enough to suffle if needed.

6th ODI: India v Australia at Nagpur, Oct 14, 2007 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo[/url]
7th ODI: India v Australia at Mumbai, Oct 17, 2007 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

Yep a very complete number 4, Hodge didn't even get to the death overs.

Ha. You not going to seriously tell me you are righting off Hodges ability to be a complete ODI # 4 based on two dead rubber innings??.

You are the one who is placing extreme emphasis on players being placed on form. All the runs Hodge has scored in Ryobi cup this year has come from him batting @ # 3/4, so i dont see your point.

Hodge also clearly doesn't have the problem Clarke has in which he struggles to shift gears & clear the boundaries. If he did have that glearing dificiency, Victoria would have him in their T20 team today, nor would he have still been an IPL regular for KKR

 

[aussie1st]

His selection for the ODIs over Ferguson also doesn't mean that Ferguson isn't rated anymore. Dussey is being put on trail again, if he clicks in this ODI series his all-round package is more valuable in the sub-continent that Ferguson & Hodge thats obvious. But if he struggles to adjust, Ferguson or Hodge can come right back into the WC squad.

You do know he will only get one game to push for a WC spot? As if his selection wasn't crazy enough they are giving him one game to push for a spot. The selectors have had all season to figure out who is in their WC squad, if they are seriously using one match to decide a players position then they are even more crazy then I thought. And once again there is no reason why Dussey should be in over Ferguson or Hodge. He is in there to bat first and so far it is no where near what Ferguson, Hodge and Christian have done.

You are the one who is placing extreme emphasis on players being placed on form. All the runs Hodge has scored in Ryobi cup this year has come from him batting @ # 3/4, so i dont see your point.

First off I never said don't pick Hodge, he should be there over Dussey and should be batting 3 for this match. What I'm pointing out is you don't drop your best batsmen to trial another guy who hasn't proven himself at this level. Hodge deserves to be in the squad but he ain't in the best 11 certainly not over Clarke.

 

[War]

Do you seriously think there were stats to back Smith's (Test) selection? I'm talking about over a career or at least a full season, not just his last two games.

He was averging 40 odd in his short FC career plus had laready taken a coupe 5 wicket hauls. So stats wise, it looked like he was AUS version of Vettori/Sakib potentially.

But myself & i'm sure many others (like yourself i presume) after seeing him in international cricket in 2010 before the Ashes, clearly saw he was not as good as his FC stats where showing to play test cricket. His performances in the Ashes proved that & hopefully the selectors dont pick him in tests again.

 

[angryangy]

Although Dussey strength is indeed his off-side game. In all the T20s for AUS, in domestic cricket in ENG i have never seen any real quick bowler tie him down by starving him that room. Definitely seem him play strong leg-side shots.

As I said, it's not for a lack of shots, but simply how he plays. Consider how he got out in the last game, backing away to hit a yorker through the offside. It's no coincidence that he produced no offside boundaries in an innings that lacked impetus.

 

[War]

You do know he will only get one game to push for a WC spot? As if his selection wasn't crazy enough they are giving him one game to push for a spot. The selectors have had all season to figure out who is in their WC squad, if they are seriously using one match to decide a players position then they are even more crazy then I thought. And once again there is no reason why Dussey should be in over Ferguson or Hodge. He is in there to bat first and so far it is no where near what Ferguson, Hodge and Christian have done.

I'm pretty sure the selectors probably have been thinking about what their best 15 for the WC, could be probably since the ODIs vs IND & SRI. Especially considering the ridiculous ultimatum the ICC has given international sides that for the first time in history they have to name their WC sides so early.

I highly doubt they would have just woke up the after the Ashes defeat & just decided to pick him wildly. They had to have been studying combination & team balance for the world cup.

Admittedly although i'm am a Hussey backer & supporter it is a tricky situation for sure.

Plus no Christian is not a better batsman than Dussey. Lets not over-exaggerate.

First off I never said don't pick Hodge, he should be there over Dussey and should be batting 3 for this match. What I'm pointing out is you don't drop your best batsmen to trial another guy who hasn't proven himself at this level. Hodge deserves to be in the squad but he ain't in the best 11 certainly not over Clarke.

I think their is case that both Hodge & Dussey could have been in the 14 man squad. What is Siddle doing in the squad?. They got to have Hastings/Christian their since we need a #1 seam bowling all-rounder batting @ 7 to back-up Watson.

Plus although i see the logic of test trying both Hauritz & Doherty since only 1 should go the world cup. I'd already pick Hauritz since his ODI form has been solid enough for the last 2 years & with his batting getting better, his all-round package is better than Doherty.

 

[aussie1st]

I'm pretty sure the selectors probably have been thinking about what their best 15 for the WC, could be probably since the ODIs vs IND & SRI. Especially considering the ridiculous ultimatum the ICC has given international sides that for the first time in history they have to name their WC sides so early.

Then why not pick him for the tour of India or even the pointless SL series? If you are going to pick bolters who haven't played in the past few series then they should at least have some form. You can't deny that this is another of the crazy selections.

Plus no Christian is not a better batsman than Dussey. Lets not over-exaggerate.

For this particular format I feel he is.

 

[formula1man]

I just realised what a boring team this is going to be

Watson and haddin are good but Clarke, White, Husseys Smith, how very boring.