Your telling me that in a must win game in a must win series there not playing their full strength side? HAH you make me laugh! South Africa have out played Aus in most of the ODI series hence why they now lead 3-1!
Australia tour of South Africa, 2008/09
- Thread starter Funknath
- Start date
Your telling me that in a must win game in a must win series there not playing their full strength side? HAH you make me laugh! South Africa have out played Aus in most of the ODI series hence why they now lead 3-1!
stefan
International Coach
Well done to the boys. Totally deserved the series win and showed the performance at kingsmead was just a bad day at the office. Welldone to gibbs again as always gets the big knockout just when the knifes were coming out in the press.
Now we can rest some of the guys and give the youngsters a chance.
Now we can rest some of the guys and give the youngsters a chance.
age of the fall
International Cricketer
And the Two series losses to South Africa before that? I know it may be hard for you to believe, and a crazy thing to even imagine, but maybe Australia was just outplayed
Congrats to SA on the series win well deserved. Out batted us and out bowled us. Bracken is having a really bad series probably his worst in ages. Hauritz may have had one good game but hes certainly shouldn't be our ODI spinner as he is far to hittable.
Our top order finally clicks and we still fail, story of our summer though with Ponting and Clarke again getting out in the 50s. Dussey really should be hooked from the Pakistan series he has had yet another poor series getting starts but not going on.
Our top order finally clicks and we still fail, story of our summer though with Ponting and Clarke again getting out in the 50s. Dussey really should be hooked from the Pakistan series he has had yet another poor series getting starts but not going on.
I think the OP is talking about having Lee, Symonds, Watson, Tait, Marsh available for selection. Why not Warne, Gilchrist and McGrath while you're at it champ
Even if all players were here, I'm not sure whether the Aussies would have won the series. For all the Clarke whining going on here at the boards, it was really the middle order that let us down in this series and it's really only Symonds that's missing. Given his form over the summer, we aren't missing much.
But anyway, the middle order have failed to produce a good partnership (apart from Hopes and Ferguson when it was too late) and while Ponting, M.Hussey and Ferguson have scored 50s it's kinda useless if the guy at the other end can't stay in... Game #1 was the perfect example. M.Hussey played well for 83, and as soon as Ferguson and Hopes stuck with him for a bit he added about 50 with Ferguson and about 70 with Hopes. Crucial partnerships that got us the score we needed to win. Just needed some application.
The other issue being that now the world knows about our Achilles heel. We can't score off spinners in the middle. Botha has owned the Aussies all summer and now van der Merwe is cashing in too. New Zealand and Sri Lanka have always relied on spin against us with excellent results. What's the answer for Australia?? Hmmm, I'd like to see Haddin and Mitch Johnson around in those middle overs because they are not afraid to take to spinners. Andrew Symonds as well is very good at intimidating the spinners. Clarke has very good footwork to the spinners and would probably be better suited to the middle order too to disrupt their length by coming down the pitch or quickly rocking back for cuts/pulls.
piriyanth
International Cricketer
Congrats SA a well deserved win.
mrtwisties
Club Cricketer
The other thing we've been missing is bowlers with an economy rate less than 5. In that respect, a fully recovered Lee and Clark would both have been better options than Geeves and Harwood.
mrtwisties added 0 Minutes and 33 Seconds later...
(that said, SA played brilliantly and deserve their win)
You would think Johnson would be perfect against the spinners but in his highest ODI knock he also struggled against Botha and when the quicks were on he did have trouble rotating the strike so I don't know if he is our answer to the spin problem. Clarke will obviously move back into the middle order, Symonds on his day can give them a good whack and Ferguson is good against the spin so we have enough options there.
Fact of the matter is that our middle order doesn't play spin well. Even Clarke looked at sea against Roelef and Ponting couldn't get Botha away. South Africa have a strong spinning duo. I think its a reflection of our domestic tournament that breads pace bowlers while choking out positions for spinners. Its almost like South Africa and Australia have swapped their spin attitude. I think its high time to give North a chance.
By the way congrats South Africa. Even without an Albie Morkel cameo they made an impressive score. Just shows depth and great confidence running through this side.
By the way congrats South Africa. Even without an Albie Morkel cameo they made an impressive score. Just shows depth and great confidence running through this side.
Haha yeah Mitch is hardly a super batsman. But I think he could be used the way Shane Warne was a few times in his career. Quick pinch hit to change the tone of a game and I would have no problem bringing him in against a spinner - Paul Harris preferably
Sure he probably wouldn't make many runs but it might kickstart the innings if it's stalled if he was told to go out and have a slap at the spinner.BTW here are the head to heads of the Aussie batsmen vs Botha in ODIs this summer (both in Aus & SA):
B. Haddin: 39 runs, 48 balls, S/R: 81.3, 3 times dismissed
M.Clarke: 12 runs, 25 balls, S/R: 48.0
R.Ponting: 48 runs, 78 balls, S/R: 61.5, 3 times dismissed
D.Hussey: 66 runs, 99 balls, S/R: 66.7
M.Hussey: 38 runs, 59 balls, S/R: 64.4, 1 time dismissed
C.Ferguson: 46 runs, 66 balls, S/R: 69.7
J.Hopes: 19 runs, 38 balls, S/R: 50.0, 1 time dismissed
M.Johnson: 24 runs, 34 balls, S/R: 70.6, 1 time dismissed
And two guys who haven't played in this current series:
S.Marsh: 45 runs, 42 balls, S/R: 107.1, 1 time dismissed
C.White: 12 runs, 21 balls, S/R: 57.1, 1 time dismissed
Haddin has a good strike rate, but it's been inflated by last night's game. He's had 5 innings where he's faced Botha and in 3 of those 5 his head to head S/R has been below 50. And Botha has dismissed him 3 times. Clarke is the opposite: his average is deflated by one innings he played in ODI #1 in Australia where he stonewalled.
Shaun Marsh has the best record against Botha but had the advantage of being able to face him once he was well set.
On the other hand, Ricky Ponting has been pretty bad against Botha. 6 times he's faced Botha in an innings and only once has his head to head strike rate been above 66.7. And Botha's got him 3 times.
But basically ALL the Aussie batsmen have struggled to score at a good rate from him. Ferguson and Mitch Johnson look comparatively good on this list, but even they haven't been real good at around 70 S/R. It's not good enough...
mdoggie
Club Cricketer
How often do you get to say that the spinners won the series for South Africa. Great batting by Gibbs, he always seems to be able to come and pull a magical innings out every few matches and that keeps his place in the side. AB has had an amazing season, and brilliant test series and now 2 half centuries in the ODI's.
Haddin looked like he was going to get the better of Botha but in doing so lost his wicket. Roelof bowled brilliantly, kept it tight and got a few wickets, bowled brilliantly. Steyn bowled nicely early on and as usual rapped up the tail nicely. Parnell didn't have a great game but he still deserve to be in the team. Albie bowled very nicely at the last powerplay.
Both teams looked to lose their way in the powerplay but it was the extra wickets that helped South Africa. Good series for Boucher with the bat, a few crucial innings at the death really helped our total. Can't wait for the Wanderers, going to watch the game live.
Haddin looked like he was going to get the better of Botha but in doing so lost his wicket. Roelof bowled brilliantly, kept it tight and got a few wickets, bowled brilliantly. Steyn bowled nicely early on and as usual rapped up the tail nicely. Parnell didn't have a great game but he still deserve to be in the team. Albie bowled very nicely at the last powerplay.
Both teams looked to lose their way in the powerplay but it was the extra wickets that helped South Africa. Good series for Boucher with the bat, a few crucial innings at the death really helped our total. Can't wait for the Wanderers, going to watch the game live.
angryangy
ICC Chairman
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2004
As Haddin demonstrated, the bigger problem for Australia is being able to do the same courtesy to opposition spinners. Like I said earlier, van der Merwe showed why he averages 20 in limited overs, with a really well disguised ability to slide the ball through a batsman's defences. Botha on the other hand finished with incredibly flattering figures, after conceding 20 off the first two overs.
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Botha's quicker flatter line seems to cause problems for our batters to get on top of him. Apart from the last ODI we have struggled to get him away. But it's not just him it's every spinner we come against. It's pretty easy to understand why though considering each state basically uses a part timer:
Queensland - Simpson
SA - O'Brien
Victoria - White although Holland was used for a few games
NSW - Thornely although Steven Smith was used at times
Tassie - Our best using 2 spinners at times
WA - Heal but his lack of FC matches suggest he ain't the greatest spinner
So until we fix the spinner problem at domestic level it's hard to see our batters dominating spinners.
Queensland - Simpson
SA - O'Brien
Victoria - White although Holland was used for a few games
NSW - Thornely although Steven Smith was used at times
Tassie - Our best using 2 spinners at times
WA - Heal but his lack of FC matches suggest he ain't the greatest spinner
So until we fix the spinner problem at domestic level it's hard to see our batters dominating spinners.
We need Roy! What's Cricket Australia's deal with leaving him out..he went fishing, get over it!
venom2011
Club Cricketer
Yeah I think the spinning conundrum was answered by the SA cricket board having at least 2 of the local franchises in SA make a place for spinners. And now there's a decent specialist spinner or two in every team.
SA also have sportier pitches (spin and seam). Looking at the series in Aus, those pitches are amazingly batsman friendly. Unless another Warne pops up, I don't see any spinner dominating on those tracks.
I don't think the Aussies should panic about facing spin yet. Sure Botha has strangled them a bit, but he's done that against other teams too (WI, ENG etc) and 2 good performances by Roelof should not worry them just yet. The last pitch took some nice turn later on and their biggest downfall was what seemed like a lack of a gameplan.
SA also have sportier pitches (spin and seam). Looking at the series in Aus, those pitches are amazingly batsman friendly. Unless another Warne pops up, I don't see any spinner dominating on those tracks.
I don't think the Aussies should panic about facing spin yet. Sure Botha has strangled them a bit, but he's done that against other teams too (WI, ENG etc) and 2 good performances by Roelof should not worry them just yet. The last pitch took some nice turn later on and their biggest downfall was what seemed like a lack of a gameplan.
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