Australian ODI tour of the United Kingdom and Ireland, June-July 2010
- Thread starter drainpipe32
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Tait is more of a future prospect though.
angryangy
ICC Chairman
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2004
I doubt it would happen, but I'd rather see Ponting drop down to 5. Pokey starts have been a problem and I would think, at the moment, that opening can only exacerbate that issue. However, batting later would give him a better chance of finding those vital first few runs and getting in; batting at the death may even encourage him to play some more bottom-handed shots and start striking that stupid pull more directly.
Indifferent form is one thing, but it's also about a timely changing of the guard. Top orders are important in all forms of the game, but in limited overs, a good top 3 scores half of the runs. There are many younger players in and around the team, but the youngest are almost half Ponting's age. If you ask who could deliver the most runs at no. 3 in the future, even in his best form, it's not Ponting.
Indifferent form is one thing, but it's also about a timely changing of the guard. Top orders are important in all forms of the game, but in limited overs, a good top 3 scores half of the runs. There are many younger players in and around the team, but the youngest are almost half Ponting's age. If you ask who could deliver the most runs at no. 3 in the future, even in his best form, it's not Ponting.
drainpipe32
Chairman of Selectors
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- Sep 24, 2008
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I don't agree with that. His driving early has been pretty good so far in this tour, it's just a combination of good bowling and a poor stroke that has led to his wicket. He's still got to be the most prized wicket in the team, as he's the most dangerous should he get going. Your top 3 are your most likely batsmen to get a ton and Ponting surely is one of them.
Clarke scored 43.04% of the runs in the last 10 overs of the first ODI whereas White scored 58.57% of the runs in the last 10 overs of the second ODI but I agree that the main fault so far lies with Australia's top order. I think the thing that frustrates me a bit is that Clarke showed early in his career how good of an ODI player he can be. I understand that Clarke needed to adjust the way he played so he could get back into the Test team (and become a significantly better Test batsman), but I don't see why he can't seem to adjust his mindset in the limited overs formats. If only he combined his current Test play with his ODI play before he got dropped from the Test team.
In the ODIs Clarke played before he got dropped from the Test team (In the second Test against the West Indies in 2005), Clarke averaged 42.80 at a strike rate of 85.08 over 60 ODIs with 10 sixes (compared to Morgan's 44 ODIs with 31 sixes).
In the ODIs Clarke has played after he got dropped from the Test team (In the second Test against the West Indies in 2005), Clarke averages 42.12 at a strike rate of 74.41 over 116 ODIs.
As you can see, Clarke was a quick scorer early in his career without hitting many sixes at all.
Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com
Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com
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Who bats at 3? A keeper? Aus dont have a opening keeper anymore. They are no good. They can never fill Gilly's shoes, so they will always look bad. Warner can open
. Keeper/White to bat at 3. Geh-slowness at 4. Ponting at 5. Sounds so weird, just by saying that. "Ponting at 5"
Robelinda
International Coach
Must say ive always liked the idea of Punter opening, and the times he has opened he's done good.
drainpipe32
Chairman of Selectors
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Ponting was made for OD cricket and he's definitely got the game for opening. A natural attacking style of play, a strong driver and puller and obviously the cool head. It's just his early jitters and presence at number three that keep him there I suppose.
Alright my wacky Ponting=opener theory has supporters
My ultimate ODI lineup would be
Watson
Ponting
Clarke
Haddin - floating in the middle order somewhere, targetting his favourite bowlers, maybe with the powerplay. I don't really rate him as a finisher, I think he'd be a better middle over pinch hitter.
White
Ferguson
Hussey
That top 7 would be even better if White got his bowling together and played like Andrew Symonds at the end of his career - as your 6th bowler. Otherwise Steve Smith or James Hopes would be needed (instead of Ferguson probably) to give some bowling depth. Dave Hussey on a good day could do it too with he and Clarke being a reserve bowler pairing.
But I can also totally understand your point angry - Ponting's struggling to make the big scores so he doesn't need to bat top 3 and it would be easier to get in at #5.
Well part of it was his batting position too. He never had to shoulder much responsibility or stop many collapses in that early phase of his career - he was batting a lot at 6 & 7. But I do agree generally, his limited over scoring abilities have lessened a little in return for a more reliable Test technique. That just means he can do a better job steadying an innings IMO.
Also, was reading the cricinfo stats article about Eoin Morgan:
Numbers Game: Morgan leads England's ODI resurgence | Regulars | Cricinfo Magazine | Cricinfo.com
And on the list of top ODI batsmen since May 2009 is a certain MJ Clarke, averaging 48.58 (same as Mike Hussey, the only other Aussie on the list). And yes Clarke's strike rate is well below the others
But just wanted to refute the claim that Clarke's been useless in ODI cricket recently.
I think White would be the first guy to criticise his innings - I thought he had a shocker, apart from not getting out And the last couple of overs were decent.
But that brings up a point about comparing Clarke to others, as has been done ad infinitum of late. I think any analysis of Clarke's strike rate doesn't take into account dot balls/partnerships and that is misleading. His whole game is based around giving the other guy the strike and letting him hit the boundaries, yet when the armchair analysts come out and say 'oh strike rate of 70...FAIL' well it doesn't account for the fact that he builds better partnerships than the other higher strike rating players do. So just keep it in mind people, look at some partnership stats if you have the time as well as the individual scores.
Love ya Clarkey :laugh
My ultimate ODI lineup would be
Watson
Ponting
Clarke
Haddin - floating in the middle order somewhere, targetting his favourite bowlers, maybe with the powerplay. I don't really rate him as a finisher, I think he'd be a better middle over pinch hitter.
White
Ferguson
Hussey
That top 7 would be even better if White got his bowling together and played like Andrew Symonds at the end of his career - as your 6th bowler. Otherwise Steve Smith or James Hopes would be needed (instead of Ferguson probably) to give some bowling depth. Dave Hussey on a good day could do it too with he and Clarke being a reserve bowler pairing.
But I can also totally understand your point angry - Ponting's struggling to make the big scores so he doesn't need to bat top 3 and it would be easier to get in at #5.
Well part of it was his batting position too. He never had to shoulder much responsibility or stop many collapses in that early phase of his career - he was batting a lot at 6 & 7. But I do agree generally, his limited over scoring abilities have lessened a little in return for a more reliable Test technique. That just means he can do a better job steadying an innings IMO.
Also, was reading the cricinfo stats article about Eoin Morgan:
Numbers Game: Morgan leads England's ODI resurgence | Regulars | Cricinfo Magazine | Cricinfo.com
And on the list of top ODI batsmen since May 2009 is a certain MJ Clarke, averaging 48.58 (same as Mike Hussey, the only other Aussie on the list). And yes Clarke's strike rate is well below the others
But just wanted to refute the claim that Clarke's been useless in ODI cricket recently.I think White would be the first guy to criticise his innings - I thought he had a shocker, apart from not getting out
And the last couple of overs were decent. But that brings up a point about comparing Clarke to others, as has been done ad infinitum of late. I think any analysis of Clarke's strike rate doesn't take into account dot balls/partnerships and that is misleading. His whole game is based around giving the other guy the strike and letting him hit the boundaries, yet when the armchair analysts come out and say 'oh strike rate of 70...FAIL' well it doesn't account for the fact that he builds better partnerships than the other higher strike rating players do. So just keep it in mind people, look at some partnership stats if you have the time as well as the individual scores.
Love ya Clarkey :laugh
Alright my wacky Ponting=opener theory has supporters
My ultimate ODI lineup would be
Watson
Ponting
Clarke
Haddin - floating in the middle order somewhere, targetting his favourite bowlers, maybe with the powerplay. I don't really rate him as a finisher, I think he'd be a better middle over pinch hitter.
White
Ferguson
Hussey
That top 7 would be even better if White got his bowling together and played like Andrew Symonds at the end of his career - as your 6th bowler. Otherwise Steve Smith or James Hopes would be needed (instead of Ferguson probably) to give some bowling depth. Dave Hussey on a good day could do it too with he and Clarke being a reserve bowler pairing.
But I can also totally understand your point angry - Ponting's struggling to make the big scores so he doesn't need to bat top 3 and it would be easier to get in at #5.
Well part of it was his batting position too. He never had to shoulder much responsibility or stop many collapses in that early phase of his career - he was batting a lot at 6 & 7. But I do agree generally, his limited over scoring abilities have lessened a little in return for a more reliable Test technique. That just means he can do a better job steadying an innings IMO.
Also, was reading the cricinfo stats article about Eoin Morgan:
Numbers Game: Morgan leads England's ODI resurgence | Regulars | Cricinfo Magazine | Cricinfo.com
And on the list of top ODI batsmen since May 2009 is a certain MJ Clarke, averaging 48.58 (same as Mike Hussey, the only other Aussie on the list). And yes Clarke's strike rate is well below the others
I think White would be the first guy to criticise his innings - I thought he had a shocker, apart from not getting out
But that brings up a point about comparing Clarke to others, as has been done ad infinitum of late. I think any analysis of Clarke's strike rate doesn't take into account dot balls/partnerships and that is misleading. His whole game is based around giving the other guy the strike and letting him hit the boundaries, yet when the armchair analysts come out and say 'oh strike rate of 70...FAIL' well it doesn't account for the fact that he builds better partnerships than the other higher strike rating players do. So just keep it in mind people, look at some partnership stats if you have the time as well as the individual scores.
Love ya Clarkey :laugh
Admittedly Clarke has batted well in the second innings of ODIs, but when setting totals (which is when his strike rate issue comes to the fore), since 1 May 2009, Clarke has averaged 31.73.
In 2009, Clarke had the lowest strike rate (69.77) of batsmen who had scored at least 700 runs.
You also raise the issue of dot balls, well, in addition to the above, Clarke had the second highest dot ball percentage, despite the fact he is touted to be a batsman who operates in singles and turns the strike over consistently. You've also got to consider the fact that this dot ball percentage statistic includes opening batsmen who bat in tight field settings at the start of an innings whereas Clarke generally gets to come in during the middle overs when the field is spread and singles are easier to take.
I think this shows that the perception that Clarke faces less dot balls than other batsmen and turns the strike over consistently is flawed.
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Australian ODI tour of the United Kingdom and Ireland, June-July 2010 - Page 10 - PlanetCricket Forums (previous post that I used for this post, but I updated and adjusted the first statistic to 1 May 2009)
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mattfb
Chairman of Selectors
Tim Paine really needs to go on and get a score today. He's been disappointing so far.
mattfb
Chairman of Selectors
cricinfo said:
Not the first time Paines done that and missed
TumTum
International Cricketer
Really hard watching this.
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