Don Bradman Cricket 14 General Discussion

[blockerdave]

Must say I'm genuinely excited by the prospect of the sequel being currently in development. hopefully as the patch 3 changes creep out to PC we can see some real progress on the AI especially to make us confident in the sequel being a proper step forward...

for me, the big key is for the patch to get the nuts and bolts of the AI working, and then hopefully under a slightly different/expanded data model the sequel can add variety so different opponents feel different. (i've made some suggestions here and here regarding how i could see this variety being introduced that i don't think would be too difficult to implement since it's just data configuration and modifiers.)

 

[Markkkkk]

The AI would be different if there were more abilites (front foot, back foot, out swing etc.) and they played a bigger role. For now someone can be a superb cover driver but cant play on the back foot (cut and offdrive) to save there life, how would you rate their offside ability? Also make it more like FM (best game ever) where every individual player is different, from injuries to personality to ambitions to salary demands. You cant give two kids a ball and be annoyed that they both kick it around...

 

[blockerdave]

Recently being playing a tour with a mixture of formats - i have until now played (outside career) almost exclusively long-form matches (either first class/test or custom formats that are still multi-innings/multi-day).

[Digression] the tour itself has been fun as i'm officially touring "1970 South Africa" (the team that whooped Australia just before the D'Oliveira affair) but also have included warm-ups/tri-series against other of my custom/historic teams like England Worst XI, 2005 Eng/Aus, 1984 WI, All Time Associates, WSC Cavaliers and, er, Kenya. The level of customisation in the game is mind-blowing and the increase it gives in longevity, interest and fun to a nerd like me is huge.[/Digression]

I've currently only completed the t20 part of the tour (drew the 2 match series with 1970 SA 1-1, as well as beating Kenya and losing to WSC Cavaliers)... Anyhoo, it's certainly clear that it's "easier" to get edges in limited overs than long form. i can't say i felt any real more connection between my performance and the outcome in terms of wickets or types of wickets, but there were definitely more edges and i took more wickets. in fact i was on a hat-trick with Bart King at one point (last ball of one over, first ball of next) and both wickets were edges (both to keeper)...

what i'm sort of slowly driving at is that i hope that the experience of the shorter formats shows that BA might be able to do something about creating more AI edges in longer format. it is something that is desperately in need of sorting out.

also, one other thing i sort of noticed in the T20 games which i'd never actually noticed before was that i saw differences in how AI batsmen batted.

in the first t20 vs 1970 South Africa, they had a long (unbroken) partnership between trevor goddard and graeme pollock - goddard scoring 101* and pollock 85* - and i noticed that goddard scored a vast majority of his runs with cuts behind square/to third man, and pollock scored most of his runs with cover drives. (they're both left handers, and for most of the game - until i noticed the pattern - i had the same fields and didn't consciously bowl any differently to either of them)

when they came together in the 2nd t20, they were doing the same thing... it was the first time i've ever felt it necessary to have different fields and bowl differently to AI batsmen; generally they seem to be batting the same (that is more or less randomly) and the same sort of field brings similar results. well in the 2nd t20, having "blocked" their favoured areas i got them both out cheaply and went on to win the game.

has anyone noticed that kind of AI batsman variation before?

 

[cooks1st100]

has anyone noticed that kind of AI batsman variation before

Now that is interesting and isn't something I have picked up on. There are slight differences in the batsman types in that they will favour particular shots but the difference isn't that noticeable. I'm also pretty sure that the AI goes through stages while batting. It's quite noticeable when all of a sudden it tries to on-drive everything or despite being on a good few runs and scoring easily will suddenly start leaving everything.

 

[blockerdave]

Now that is interesting and isn't something I have picked up on. There are slight differences in the batsman types in that they will favour particular shots but the difference isn't that noticeable. I'm also pretty sure that the AI goes through stages while batting. It's quite noticeable when all of a sudden it tries to on-drive everything or despite being on a good few runs and scoring easily will suddenly start leaving everything.

it's the one and only time I have seen it/noticed it; in the first match I took 2 wickets in the first 2 overs then they batted the rest of the innings, so I had plenty of time to see it and there was a huge difference in where they scored their runs; though by the end I was blocking those areas and bowling differently to them I guess by then their confidence was high enough they still hit plenty of shots... in the second game their pattern started even though I had fielders in the appropriate areas, and then ultimately I got Goddard at fly slip and Pollock deep extra cover both under 20

 

[blockerdave]

this is a snapshot of why bowling in the game can be such a ball ache at times and how it should be improved (me bowling to AI).

149-7 to 327 all out, with numbers 8 & 9 top-scoring by a distance. I created every player on these two teams, skills and attributes included and let me tell you Patel and McCague have nothing in their creation to justify that... skills and attributes appear to have zero impact on the AI performance; the game basically decided to have the AI post a competitive score, so you had these two players suddenly playing like Bradman and Ponting... you had fielders jogging to miss easy catches, including the keeper jogging on the spot when he could have made a smaller dive than he usually makes when taking catches in front of 1st/2nd slip.

whether in the patch, or next iteration or whatever, please please make attributes mean something, and please please please remove whatever "balancer" you have that kicks in at times like these that means top-order collapses and tail-end stands are a common feature.

 

[MattW]

Usually while bowling in career mode I will get off to a great start, getting out the top order cheaply before they get set, then I'll be out of the attack until the tail order is set and impossible to remove.



Some random scorecards from screenshots I'd randomly taken - the Ireland v Australia one was me bowling as Aus to the AI on Legend, same deal with the tail dominating. The second was simulation in career mode, just thought I'd include it anyway.

And unlike Dave, I've clearly paid no attention to the teams I have.

 

[cooks1st100]

this is a snapshot of why bowling in the game can be such a ball ache at times and how it should be improved (me bowling to AI).149-7 to 327 all out, with numbers 8 & 9 top-scoring by a distance. I created every player on these two teams, skills and attributes included and let me tell you Patel and McCague have nothing in their creation to justify that... skills and attributes appear to have zero impact on the AI performance; the game basically decided to have the AI post a competitive score, so you had these two players suddenly playing like Bradman and Ponting... you had fielders jogging to miss easy catches, including the keeper jogging on the spot when he could have made a smaller dive than he usually makes when taking catches in front of 1st/2nd slip.

whether in the patch, or next iteration or whatever, please please make attributes mean something, and please please please remove whatever "balancer" you have that kicks in at times like these that means top-order collapses and tail-end stands are a common feature.

What I've recently done is give all bowlers with a batting average below 15, zero for all batting attributes. This has improved this issue and now will regularly bowl out the tail cheaply on pro. Not every time which I think is a good thing but a marked improvement. Even giving a tailender 1 attribute seems to turn them into a half decent batsman.

The batsman seem to play the same way no matter how high/low the attributes are set but higher settings equals less poor shots. That's the way it appears to me anyhow.

 

[blockerdave]

What I've recently done is give all bowlers with a batting average below 15, zero for all batting attributes. This has improved this issue and now will regularly bowl out the tail cheaply on pro. Not every time which I think is a good thing but a marked improvement. Even giving a tailender 1 attribute seems to turn them into a half decent batsman.

The batsman seem to play the same way no matter how high/low the attributes are set but higher settings equals less poor shots. That's the way it appears to me anyhow.

perhaps, but i don't think you should have to do that to get the game to play reasonably - an occasional lower order stand is fine, but let's be honest it's essentially the default in the game rather than a rare occurrence.

i will never understand why Big Ant have refused (by omission) to give proper clear guidance about skills and attribute setting when custom player creation is the essence of the game. i for one was repeatedly asking prior to release and the best we got was a "1 helmet bad, 5 helmet good"...

FWIW, these are the batting stats for McCague and Patel, this would put them as both "1" helmet if they were batters (the 3 and 2 are their bowling helmets) - these stats should be getting them playing like genuine tailenders.

i could take the occasional lower order stand, but what happened here was the sort of "balancer" we have all seen time and again kicking in and deciding to have the AI post a competitive score. it's game ruining, and shouldn't be there.

 

[cooks1st100]

i will never understand why Big Ant have refused (by omission) to give proper clear guidance about skills and attribute setting when custom player creation is the essence of the game. i for one was repeatedly asking prior to release and the best we got was a "1 helmet bad, 5 helmet good"...

I know, the consistency attribute for example, is it batting consistency or bowling consistency, does it affect both? It would be handy to know. Anyway man as I say just zero the tailenders it's makes a difference, whether we should or shouldn't have to, it's a case of have to for the time being.

 

[Wealey]

BA might be able to do something about creating more AI edges in longer format.

Totally agree with this.

However yesterday bowled WI out for 282 on vet with South Africa. 5 of the wickets caught behind the stumps. 2 to 2nd slip 2 the keeper and 1 to the keeper off a spinner.

so they are definitely there in longer format. But I suppose what im saying is would we then see too many? How do they balance the issue?

 

[Dutch]

For every time I bang my controller against the dog in frustration* there are also so many gasp moments in the game; going along nicely, pop one up to gully that hurried me a little.......could only think: yep, got me! Batting is extremely well done, human batting that is: the late cut over the slips should be completely banned....happens way to often and should be resulting in edges flying all over the place..........



* the dog subsequently biting my leg in frustration....

 

[cooks1st100]

: the late cut over the slips should be completely banned....happens way to often and should be resulting in edges flying all over the place..........

A pet hate of mine, the AI plays it far too easily and to balls it shouldn't (pitched full on middle for example) and flies off the bat at a ridiculous pace

I'll probably get flak for this but I think the timing window for flat bat shots should be decreased as they seem far too easy to play. I had a go on veteran last week, I'm not good at batting at all yet I could pull and cut with no problem. I don't think I have ever played and missed with these shots let alone edged a ball. If this is the case that the timing window is a bit too big then it's no surprise that the AI plays them easily also.

 

[blockerdave]

Totally agree with this.

However yesterday bowled WI out for 282 on vet with South Africa. 5 of the wickets caught behind the stumps. 2 to 2nd slip 2 the keeper and 1 to the keeper off a spinner.

so they are definitely there in longer format. But I suppose what im saying is would we then see too many? How do they balance the issue?

Everyone can point to a time where they got a lot of edges in one game/ innings; the problem is how many times did that happen compared to you getting few/none? How many times did the number of edges have any connection to the conditions? How many times did you get realistic edges?

It is not close to balanced now. Nobody wants to run through the AI every time we just want a realistic balance of dismissal types.

Other ones: have you ever bowled the AI through the gate? Ever genuinely beaten them with swing/seam to have them LBW/bowled rather than them randomly play a line 3 stumps away from the ball?

It's not about edges purely but the whole way the AI bats and the balance of dismissal types and impact of conditions.

 

[cooks1st100]

Totally agree with this.

However yesterday bowled WI out for 282 on vet with South Africa. 5 of the wickets caught behind the stumps. 2 to 2nd slip 2 the keeper and 1 to the keeper off a spinner.

so they are definitely there in longer format. But I suppose what im saying is would we then see too many? How do they balance the issue?

The way to balance the issue seems simple to me. The way the game is atm far too many wickets are from catches in the mid-on/mid -off region due to aerial shots and grounded shots that also go in the air.
Now a big issue with the game is not just that the AI plays far too many aerial shots, it's that even the grounded shots go through the air as opposed to along the ground as they should.

This is the issue that needs to be addressed first. Reducing aerial shots and making grounded shots not go through the air will obviously reduce the number of catches.

Then the edges can be increased and the increase in wickets as a result will make up for the decrease in mid-on/mid/off catches. Now the important thing is not all edges should result in wicket, currently they don't so I expect that would remain the same.

Ideally the game would be coded so that the edges were increased for say the first 20 overs of a new ball and then revert to how it is currently as the ball ages. Then taking the new ball would actually be an important part of the game.