Education - Just Marks/Grades or Acquiring Real Knowledge?

[jkartik]

what you need to understand KC is that everyone has their own outlook towards life!
you want to study abroad and be a historian right? some people (especially the oldies) call it a waste of a degree and meant for those who cant get anywhere else. now, is this true? of course not. but its their POV and they are entitled to it.

also, need to realize that not everyone is strong enough to face the harsh criticisms and difficulties of an unconventional career path.

its all about what brings you happiness and satisfaction. its a very individual thing. some people are happy and leading a very satisfied life with the same old 9 to 5 IT jobs while i've seen many of the unconventional people inspite of achieving something different still feeling left out and very unhappy.

and what irritates me that most is that many people nowadays are TRYING to be unconventional when clearly they dont have what it takes nor are they skilled enough for the task. they have no idea what their ambitions are in life but still pick a different career JUST BECAUSE they want to brag about how unconventional and "out of the box" they are!

and your line about "People in the subcontinent need to moult out from their medieval thinking processes and try to embrace modernity" sounds extremely good to read in theory but holds very little value in practicality.

more importantly, who'll fund you (as said in my previous post). if you are from a middle class family where your mom is a housewife while your dad earns just enough to get you by with minor savings, do you really think he can afford to send his kid abroad ? NO! in this scenario, the boy is just thinking of finishing his engineering or science degree and get a good enough job to help out his family and lessen the burden of his dad! all that crap about job satisfaction and creativity and doing something different is pure BS in this case. For all you know, he might be extremely happy and satisfied to stand on his own feet, rent his own house and be a good support to his family. everybody has their own priorities in life!

in a country like india with a billion population, rising inflation, narrow minded attitude with a huge gap between the rich and the poor...is it feasible to venture outside the norm ? unfortunately, NO!

and careers such as writers, artists etc are very risky. you are either a big shot earning lakhs at will or just another struggling guy roaming around the streets looking for work. there is no middle ground.

just because a person has achieved something different doesnt give him the authority or the right to ridicule others and be dismissive.

Life isnt perfect and definitely doesnt play according to the way you want it.
Time to wake up and smell the coffee.............

 

[King Cricket]

just because a person has achieved something different doesnt give him the authority or the right to ridicule others and be dismissive.

Doesn't it work both ways?

Just as people, who are trying to break out from an ossified social order, shouldn't be dismissive about others who don't think along the same line as them (that was not my intention anyway) similarly, people, who want to comply to the convention of rote learning and inhibition of ambitions to be at the top of the hierarchy have no right to denigrate/deprecate the choices of others who might not agree with their misguided views regarding one's approach to education, something that I experience on a daily basis.

Like I've said, I've grown sick and tired of the number of times I've been jeered or made fun of for refusing to follow the herd and declining to genuflect before a system to which your dreams, ambitions, and aspirations have no worth, and, most of the times, the criticism has come from either from people who have succumbed to a mundanity by trying to imprison their actual passions to succeed in the rat race, or from people who live aimless, insecured lives in cloistered surroundings studying (read 'cramming) for thirteen to fourteen hours a day without even trying to explore themselves and find out where their real passions lie. It's as if someone who dares to think different and defy the norm are degraded to second class citizens in this country, where speaking a word against the tradition, that is impoverishing the country intellectually and insidiously retrogading the prestigious educational heritage the country once had, is considered nothing short of a blasphemy. To add to that, if you really ask me, I'd say that it is much better to live the life of a failed poet than quaking with regret, uneasiness and insecurity every moment; a malaise that has engulfed many of the "nine to five IT generation" aside a few, who, as all of us know very well, should be treated as exceptions and not the general trend.

Besides, do you really think that pursuing engineering and medical professions by sacrificing your real wishes is going to guarantee one and one's family happiness and prosperity? Let's not try to titillate sentiments by evoking pictures of a lower middle class family where the mother is a housewife and the father earning just enough to feed the numerous mouths. I'm willing to argue that the families who shell out lakhs on the ridiculous system of after-school tutions, and cram schools do not constitute the lower income group you are talking about (for Nabeel's information, let me tell him that even the less known coaching centers charge at least Rs 60,000-1 lakh for IIT cramming, or 'coaching' per student apart from a few extremely obscure ones which should again be quite rightly considered as exceptions) I'm also willing to argue that those who add to the number of 'crambots' in the society are either people who have been indoctrinated into and fed with a misguided, perverted approach from the very beginning or made to succumb to a repulsive materialism that actuates them to give up their dreams and chase lucrative jobs (preferably in the IT sector) and high pays that they believe will give them entree into the higher echelons of the society and endow them with power, prestige and social status. 'Helping families' is pretty much and outdated and anachronistic concept for those who are at the top of the pyramid in the modern age, at least that is what I've gathered from seeing such 'toppers' and 'entrance exam givers' around me whose only 'desire' in life is to 'ayesh' in the United States or warm up to a 'IT job' by sitting on top of a mountain of dollars after they manage to get into an institution to get a degree in science by hook or by crook. If you want to hear the story of the real middle class, then you have to press your ears closer to the ground and shift your eyes to the bottom of the pyramid which comprises the chunk of the society.

Those who do want to get a good job and 'help his dad' are precisely those who are stomped on the face by the system. We all know that 10 lakh students appear for the various engineering entrance examinations each year. Of them, a few thousand get selected in prestigious universities and the remaining 9 lakh are flung into darkness. It's these 9 lakh who form the bulk of the Indian middle class. It's these 9 lakh who, after being denied admission in the universities for the reason that thousand other crambots fared better than them in exams that demand you to regrugiate 'best quality' study materials, 'suggestions' and crammed notes of 'best quality' coaching schools who charge not a penny less than 1 lakh each year, and after imploding to depression, join the lesser known colleges in the country, colleges which are overrun by unions and loathsome, barbaric politics, colleges which are worse than hell itself. To cut a long story short, even after sweating it out in Kota for four years, even after ruthlessly suppressing your unsuppressable ambitions, even after locking yourself up in a room and mugging for IITs, and IITs, even after being oblivious to your surroundings and ripping your real passion apart with a knife and pursuing science, you end up as a loser in the 'Mahan' India, as a person who has fallen into a black hole and has no way but to give in to mediocrity and the humble job of a government employee or perhaps a small-time officer of a private firm, thus causing the vicious cycle to recur with your child too. That's the real picture of the Indian middle class. Let's shift our eyes to another figure. In my state Bengal, roughly 11-12 lakh people sit for the Class X board exams each year; by the time they reach Class XII, the figure halves; when they join universities, the figure becomes one-sixth; and, in post-graduate courses, it's only a few hundred. You may want to object saying that the benefit of pursuing science lies in the fact that it offers a middle ground, and the person who is pursuing a degree in science may earn at least some living in India unlike a dejected artist or writer. Well, in my opinion, an average middle class, who has settled for mediocrity, leads a failed life, goes about in a nine-to-five job and is haunted by depression and regret for not being able to achieve anything big is as doleful as a failed artist or writer who will take consolation from the fact that at least they had the guts to cling on to their passions.


The wild love for medical and engineering professions which stems from the false belief that they ensure prosperity reminds me of a very famous quote by Hellen Keller:
"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing."

Basically, my moot point is that in the present climate of education, where one student commits suicide each hour unable to bear the stress, and where you either have to comply to the system and be a despicable mechanical robot or break free, if you have the passion, it's better to do the latter as you you're just as vulnerable to being shredded into pieces by pursuing medical and engineering as you are by trying to break free from the system. Just that the system fools and beguiles you into thinking that it is not the case. I know not all people can be lucky enough to escape the country and flee to United States, but even then, they should at least try to follow their dreams. We still have a few decent arts colleges in India where a creative ambience may help their talent to bloom. If they don't, there is every chance of them sliding down the ladder and turning out to be one of the 9 lakh students whose dreams are mercilessly crushed each year by the system. If they do, they still may fail but they'll know that they had the guts to 'run where the brave dare not go.' It sounds odd, but that's where the country stands at this moment. Basically, due to a loathsome education system we are all, irrespective of our interests, on the edge of a cliff from which we either go up to the stratosphere or down to hell, the so called "engineering and medical" students with thick glasses, who wear a supercilious look in their faces, think they form the cream of the crop and refuse to look beyond their narrow worlds, more so. It is upon them to wake up and smell the coffee.

 

[jkartik]

FYI, majority of my friends and colleagues DO NOT want to do the 9-5 stuff.
but they simply cant pursue their goals because Mera Bharath Mahan doesnt allow a person to "break free".

It all boils down to the system. you either change the system, break free from the system or be a part of it!

Why do You want to pursue your education abroad ? i am sure there are good enough Arts and Literature Colleges in india. why cant you stay in india itself and finish your Graduation / Post-Graduation ?

We both know the answer to this. if you want to study in india, you better not choose anything else except engineering / medicine.
what happens due to his ? you either have to go abroad which only the upper middle class or the elite can afford or just suck it up and play along.

Ultimately, everything these days revolves around $$$.

oh...i forgot...your just 16 right ??
though i admire your views(i was on the same boat as you 4 years ago. )
i am interested in knowing how much of a practical life experience you've had rather than watching and observing things around you and gathering statistics. THEN, i'll be able to have a much better debate with you.

 

[Varun]

and your line about "People in the subcontinent need to moult out from their medieval thinking processes and try to embrace modernity" sounds extremely good to read in theory but holds very little value in practicality

Really? So what is practical? Relinquishing almost all your enjoyment of the work to pursue an IIT degree? Making your best efforts to retrograde the country by spawn a plethora of scams and degrade the image of India in the face of the whole world? Or just lead a moribund and bland life, without any ambitions?

just because a person has achieved something different doesnt give him the authority or the right to ridicule others and be dismissive.

What disturbs me the most is that the people consider that 'following their IIT ambitions' doesn't really affect anyone in any way. Really? Thousands of genuine science enthusiasts, computer enthusiasts (Kshitiz_Indian, for instance) are left behind, suffering from the derogatory remarks and humiliation of the society, just because these crambots grab the top positions everytime. Don't give me the excuse that IIT aspirants (except a few) are immensely knowledgeable, I'm darn sure not one would know what a VELCRO is, let alone it's working.

Why do You want to pursue your education abroad ? i am sure there are good enough Arts and Literature Colleges in india. why cant you stay in india itself and finish your Graduation / Post-Graduation ?

Don't know about KC, but I'm in for a US uni because of the quality of education provided here - bound within our traditions and stereotypes. Plus the development in space sciences is diminutive here, (which is obvious because of the attitude here, remember, research doesn't pays off much in the monetary aspect), with even the ISRO blighted with scams.

Let's not try to titillate sentiments by evoking pictures of a lower middle class family where the mother is a housewife and the father earning just enough to feed the numerous mouths. I'm willing to argue that the families who shell out lakhs on the ridiculous system of after-school tutions, and cram schools do not constitute the lower income group you are talking about (for Nabeel's information, let me tell him that even the less known coaching centers charge at least Rs 60,000-1 lakh for IIT cramming, or 'coaching' per student apart from a few extremely obscure ones which should again be quite rightly considered as exceptions) I'm also willing to argue that those who add to the number of 'crambots' in the society are either people who have been indoctrinated into and fed with a misguided, perverted approach from the very beginning or made to succumb to a repulsive materialism that actuates them to give up their dreams and chase lucrative jobs (preferably in the IT sector) and high pays that they believe will give them entree into the higher echelons of the society and endow them with power, prestige and social status.

Well said, KC. This reminds of the saddening fact that people aspire to join the Civil Services just to gain prestige, same with the ones your mentioned. (Even I had one of my uncles advising me to aim for the I.S., that moment was exasperating.)

oh...i forgot...your just 16 right ??
though i admire your views(i was on the same boat as you 4 years ago. )
i am interested in knowing how much of a practical life experience you've had rather than watching and observing things around you and gathering statistics. THEN, i'll be able to have a much better debate with you.

People in India really believe that 16 yr. old kids CAN'T SEE what's wrong and what's not.
Talk about my experiences, and I've my sister and other cousins literally wasting their lives for the sake of a lucrative career. My sister is a brilliant artist, and one of my cousins has a dancing prowess. Still she is wasting her life in mechanical engineering, not to mention that my real sister is getting wasted in computer science honours, for she isn't at all interested in computers. And one of my brother failing in exams, despite having a great knowledge of science, just because he is slightly poor in diagrams and articulating his thoughts into words.

jkartik, one doesn't need to experience things for himself/herself to know whether they are fallacious or correct. The whole Indian society (again except a few) manifests this trend, and it isn't really difficult to any person actually 'observing' things around him/her to get these 'theories' corroborated.

 

[WubbaLubbaDubDub]

Stop scribbing. You want a practical oriented life then live it but face the truth if you stay in India and if you don't have money then you could be one shitting on railway tracks.. I am sorry to be blunt but with Indian system you have to get good grades.. The company here in india look for grades and you have to work to achieve that.

Go to abroad and live you life

 

[Varun]

See KC, that proves my pessimism that our country's in a kind of vicious circle and things will hardly change, no matter how much effort you put up. :/

 

[WubbaLubbaDubDub]

I have taken nothing negatively dude.. That's the life style of Indian Student

 

[Varun]

Not that. Just that in a debate the KC wrote to me, he suggested that people's mentality of education etc. are gradually changing, while I believed the aforementioned by me.
Seems like my pessimistic views have been corroborated.

 

[jkartik]

Not that. Just that in a debate the KC wrote to me, he suggested that people's mentality of education etc. are gradually changing, while I believed the aforementioned by me.
Seems like my pessimistic views have been corroborated.

Its still pretty much the same. may be they are a bit more tolerant to other fields but engineering and medical etc is still the preferred choice and will continue to be in the foreseeable future.

you talk about the success stories right ? if your so sure and passionate about your goals....why cant you do it in india itself ?? why are you being a coward and running away to the US whilst bitching about the indian system? isnt that kind of being a hypocrite ??

why dont you study aerospace engineering in india itself and be the next Abdul kalam ? goes perfectly well with your ideologies and who knows...people might quote your life and your words the same way you did of Michael Jordon.

 

[Varun]

why dont you study aerospace engineering in india itself and be the next Abdul kalam ? goes perfectly well with your ideologies and who knows...people might quote your life and your words the same way you did of Michael Jordon.

Because I don't want to be an aerospace engineer.....

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And there isn't ANY SCOPE for astrophysical research in India, just like there isn't any for seismology and volcanology. If I can't muster resources here, (they aren't available, the ISRO guys are busy with scams) how can I build my career? Also the fact that US unis are flexible in their education, thus I can study subjects like History and Political Science with astrophysics.

 

[Varun]

And also that if I am intent on studying in USA, that doesn't mean I'll never return back to India.

 

[MaD]

Do whatever you want, it's your choice, nothing is ideal.

 

[Varun]

Do whatever you want, it's your choice, nothing is ideal.

Well that's the point. In India, one can't do what he/she wants, rather they have to tread on the career path which leads them to prestige, and status.

 

[MaD]

Well that's what they wanna do then

 

[Varun]

Well, they're coerced to do it (mostly, apart from the no-life people), that doesn't mean they wanna do it.

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But I think there is no use bothering myself about it now, I have heard enough brilliant opinions.