Education - Just Marks/Grades or Acquiring Real Knowledge?

[Varun]

You see Varun!!

No Job = More Crime Rate due to illiteracy

Less Money = More Crime Rate which includes people going to in favor of betting and all those ████!!

If you study well and get a decent grade with decent money its enough

It's not that one shouldn't get a decent grade, but it's that if we aim at bettering ourselves, we'll automatically get the grades.

Sorry if it seems a little haughty, but I've never given a cricket to grades/marks this entire year, but still I topped my class. I didn't use any shitty guides, didn't go to tuitions (though I went to a coaching center, I really didn't pay much attention to scoring marks there) and didn't use black magic (if anything like that even exists). Apparently, my quality of English has substantially improved, my post quality too, and I am a lot maturer than last year. I don't think I would have been if I had kept on mugging books and bothering myself for grades.

Whatever education you partake in, it should be about developing yourself as a human being and your own unique talents and striving to achieve something should be recognized equally. Why should someone who achieves academically based grades and marks be thought of as being further or better than someone who is musical or socially talented or just damned kind? We need more kind people, not just more people with high grades.....

This.

Your 16 right ? you havent experienced the real world yet. its horrible.
i used to think in the exact same lines as you (still do but have mellowed down).

'big and lucrative job' sounds cliched and cheesy but believe me; most people work all their lives to achieve it.

unfortunately, the situation today is such that even happiness can be bought out by money. when you dont have money, are hungry most of the day, sweating it out in the metros in the jam packed trains and buses.........you soon realize that job satisfaction means ████!

as of 2011, job satisfaction = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!

coming to your point about "marks/grades don't really matter in the real world". again, i would like to reiterate that you havent experienced a job / office / corporate culture and will be utterly disappointed to find out that
marks and grades are ALL THAT MATTER in the real world.

No, it doesn't. Ask a volcanologist, an astrophysicist (Stephen Hawking and others), a photographer. Most of them probably won't be what they are because they got better marks in the classes, or topped an exam; It's just because they pursued what they strove for.

I know that you were unemployed for a large part of the year (I read the interview of yours with Matt). I also acknowledge the fact that I'm way too much inexperienced to know the 'experience' for myself. But hey, imagine the scenario: 4 lakh students attempting the JEE or the CAT. You CERTAINLY cannot expect everyone to qualify through. Even if all of them scored the same marks, or to put it in another way - if all of them TOPPED THEIR CLASSES, surely all of them won't make it through. The competition will finally rip their conscience, their thinking ability apart.

We need coordination, cooperation more than competition.

I know my thoughts are rather impractical (or seem so); I've been chided by my friends for carrying around an impractical attitude, but I've read enough success stories to know that they ARE practical in some way. We consider them impractical, because we haven't even TRIED.

I remember this quote from Michael Jordan - "I've failed again and again in my life, and that's why I succeed."

A job is necessary - of course it is, you cannot remain unemployed - but the attitude that only a lucrative job matters is farcical. And money can buy happiness, that's way more farcical.

 

[jkartik]

havent even TRIED ?

ok....i dropped out of college at 18. i was of the same thinking as you.
" i have read enough success stories to know that when you work hard and strive...you come through..." etc etc....

i wanted to be a film-maker and wasted 3 years of my life living in a dirty neighbourhood in mumbai, in a 2 BHK with 8 people, struggled for work in buses and trains...the typical bollywood struggler story here.....

and since i didnt want to trouble my family financially, did loads of shitty jobs just to survive. i was an assistant director even for stupid and mindless daytime soap opera like "Pavitra Rishta(Zee TV)" and "Sa Re Ga Ma Pa Challenge". we used to have 15 hour shifts. hardly 2 meals a day and not more than 5 hours of sleep. not to mention the constant abuse we use to receive from the director!

i even packed off to chennai for over 6 months achieving my dream inspite of hating that city and in that cricketing climate !!!

in the end, i realized its all about contacts, nepotism and who can kiss ass the most!

now, i cant comment on other fields but this entertainment business is a BITCH! too much politics than parliament itself. i absolutely dont mind all the harships but i just dont feel its worth it in the end!

what am trying to put across in all this is that in india atleast, even TRYING to do something unconventional is almost tantamount to digging your grave. its all about the doctors and engineers in our country!

i am not blaming you....your still very much young, naive and immature....its ok...you'll learn it eventually as your grow older.....

that and even if you want to pursue the dream all your life.....who'll fund you....how will you survive without the money ?
do you think india has a proper part-time job system ? NO!!! you cant even pay rent with the money they offer you for part-time jobs.
and full time jobs are too pressurizing and time-consuming to pursue anything else.

not to mention we are over a billion in INDIA ITSELF!!

JAI HIND ! MERA BHARATH MAHAN!

 

[Varun]

I know this fact, that in India, nobody cares for your talent. Of course, I contemplating to study abroad, most probably in the US. I know that it's too tough to get the admission abroad, but who's giving up?

I really sympathize with what has happened to you. But for my age, I don't think I know how to console you. But I really hope you prove yourself in the end. (you're the developer of a cricket game with better mechanics than any large brand's game).

 

[jkartik]

I know this fact, that in India, nobody cares for your talent. Of course, I contemplating to study abroad, most probably in the US. I know that it's too tough to get the admission abroad, but who's giving up?

I really sympathize with what has happened to you. But for my age, I don't think I know how to console you. But I really hope you prove yourself in the end. (you're the developer of a cricket game with better mechanics than any large brand's game).

the problem with studying in the US is that theres too much $$$$ involved.
if your parents are wealthy and can afford your education, then by all means go ahead! education system in india is ████!
BUT, if you cant, then do a graduation in a good enough college and try for GRE / GMAT etc...

 

[_Nabeel_]

Fully agreeing to JK here.India is a place where people do not see your intelligence but your capability to mug huge chapters.I am a intermediate student and I wanted to pursue my career in the field of animations(probably game dev) but my family is pressurizing me to give a try for IIT(Software engineering).I am not having much problem to give it a try(unless they provide a good coaching institute).

@Varun: The thoughts that you have right now are inspired by the Hindi films,Literature and history.get out of the dreaming world and think once that Will you hand over a job for your company to a person whose school record is below average or the person who is excellent in performance during his whole school life.You will surely give a job the the latter one.

 

[shravi]

Varun, it's the same EVERYWHERE. Marks count for pretty much everything when you have just graduated from university. Sure there are exceptions like the ones you've mentioned but it's just wishful thinking to see yourself following their footsteps. I don't like it, but that's the way it is. Sure, down the road, your work experience counts for more but you still do need a good educational background to help you compete against the hundreds of others vying for the same job as you.

 

[Varun]

Shravi, it seems like you slightly misinterpreted my words. Will post my views later.

 

[King Cricket]

Fully agreeing to JK here.India is a place where people do not see your intelligence but your capability to mug huge chapters.I am a intermediate student and I wanted to pursue my career in the field of animations(probably game dev) but my family is pressurizing me to give a try for IIT(Software engineering).I am not having much problem to give it a try(unless they provide a good coaching institute).

@Varun: The thoughts that you have right now are inspired by the Hindi films,Literature and history.get out of the dreaming world and think once that Will you hand over a job for your company to a person whose school record is below average or the person who is excellent in performance during his whole school life.You will surely give a job the the latter one.

At some point of time in their lives, those who are cramming copiously for the IITs and IIMs, without any true love for the subject, without any ambition of their own, will feel the pangs of regret for not chasing their dreams, for bowing down to social pressure and not curving out their lives the way the wanted to, for not being able to give wings to their emotions and imaginations. A lucrative job can endow you with power, social status, and perennial bragging rights, but it fails to buy happiness, it fails to attach a meaning to the life you are leading. Albert Einstein couldn't clear his entrance exams, he was upbraided as a back-bencher and chided as one of the weakest students of the class. It was him who went on to say that 'the greatest impediment to my learning is my education.'

Joining the rat race without exploring yourself or knowing your aims, mugging up the science subjects like lunatics, and turning a blind eye to creativity, innovation and scholastic aptitude can make you the managing director of a wealthy corporate firm, but it can never make you someone great, someone you want to be, someone you look up to.

Life is not about being crambots, striving for marks, grades, IIT placements and succumbing to a loathsome mundanity, life is about breaking out from the traditional mould and doing something that the world takes notice of. Call me naive, ingenuous, or misinformed, but if you really want to prosper in life, try to think beyond the IITs, IIMs, coaching centers, tutions, rat race, marks and grades, try to add a new dimension to your thoughts. Follow your dream, and start charting out the way from now itself. I want to be a scholar in History when I grow up, and of course I want to study abroad and not in some wretched Indian university where students go only for dabbling in loathsome politics. I don't lose heart when people, so called 'scientists' whose only 'aim' in life is to be an 'IIT' engineer, people who plagiarize essays, people haven't read one iota of literature and apparently can't write/speak a sentence even in their native language (let alone English) without making a thousand grammatical and spelling errors, deride me for making this choice or turn their noses at me, because I know that even if I don't achieve my dream, I'll know that
"the world will be better for this
That one man, scorned and covered with scars
Still strove with his last ounce of courage
To reach the unreachable star"

 

[_Nabeel_]

I am very impressed by your thoughts and ideals but when you want to feed yourself and your family,then you cannot leave them to suffer just to achieve your dream.
In a middle class family your father earns just enough to provide you with food,education,shelter and clothes.Middle class students have not enough scope to follow their own dream to become a burden on their family till the time their aims are not achieved.

the impressive words that you spoke at the age of 15 will be more impressive when you will speak just opposite at the age of 20.

 

[Varun]

I meant just the same KC has written, just that I wasn't able to articulate it better.

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In a middle class family your father earns just enough to provide you with food,education,shelter and clothes.Middle class students have not enough scope to follow their own dream to become a burden on their family till the time their aims are not achieved.

Ironically they spend lakhs of money feeding off these dilapidated cram schools?

 

[P Squared]

Ironically they spend lakhs of money feeding off these dilapidated cram schools?

I don't think they are that expensive.

 

[Varun]

The basic fees at FIITJEE is just about 1.5 lakh rupees. It's expensive considering the fact that even 500 INR are considered expensive by Indian middle-class families.
And guess what? Someone's money is ALWAYS going to get WASTED, no matter how much the student 'works hard'. IIT offers only approximately 7000 seats, compared to the lakhs of students who give the exam. You just cannot expect everyone to make it through, same with the IIMs.

Fully agreeing to JK here.India is a place where people do not see your intelligence but your capability to mug huge chapters.I am a intermediate student and I wanted to pursue my career in the field of animations(probably game dev) but my family is pressurizing me to give a try for IIT(Software engineering).I am not having much problem to give it a try(unless they provide a good coaching institute).

Nabeel, you may blindly leave animation and pursue software engineering from IIT. Remember, even to 'pursue' it at IIT, you'd have to mug up (or prepare, as the majority of people call it) for an exam which doesn't test your software engineering capabilities at all, but only Physics, Chemistry and Maths. All the best.

Varun, it's the same EVERYWHERE. Marks count for pretty much everything when you have just graduated from university. Sure there are exceptions like the ones you've mentioned but it's just wishful thinking to see yourself following their footsteps. I don't like it, but that's the way it is. Sure, down the road, your work experience counts for more but you still do need a good educational background to help you compete against the hundreds of others vying for the same job as you.

Of course, everyone requires a good educational background. But the question is, what a good educational background really is? In India, it's just scoring marks in an exam. And who succeeds? The 'intelligent' students who spend almost two years of their lives in a dilapidated cramming school.
The meaning of 'a good educational background' is not the same in other non-asian countries. It's more than scoring marks. It's about creativity, ingenuity, your communication abilities, your ECs and not just your GPA (you cannot get accepted into MIT, or CalTech, or Standford or any other US or UK uni just on the BASIS OF YOUR GPA). Sureshot mentioned the same in this thread a long time ago.

And things, more or less annoying, are still the way they are, because we're complying to them. Nowadays, we've even fallen into the heinous deed of brainwashing children at a very young age, 12, into the IITs, not to mention we've been doing this for the high schoolers for a long time.

We're undergoing an educational revolution though, the CCE, but it still seems that the things will only change gradually, the Indian mentality is not that easy to mold.

 

[_Nabeel_]

The basic fees at FIITJEE is just about 1.5 lakh rupees. It's expensive considering the fact that even 500 INR are considered expensive by Indian middle-class families.
And guess what? Someone's money is ALWAYS going to get WASTED, no matter how much the student 'works hard'. IIT offers only approximately 7000 seats, compared to the lakhs of students who give the exam. You just cannot expect everyone to make it through, same with the IIMs.

its not necessary for a Middle classstudent to attend FIITJEE coaching.FIITJEE is more of a high standard coaching institute in India,there are many small coaching institutes which are much more capable in providing good preparation for IIT.BTW,I am not talking here only of IIT.What I am trying to say here is that unless you pursue some sort of engineering or Medical,you won't be able to lead a prosperous life along with your family.if we are not selected in IIT,then there are Private college tests and state competition exams also...IIT is just an exam for placements in good colleges.It has no other role in engineering other than this.

Nabeel, you may blindly leave animation and pursue software engineering from IIT. Remember, even to 'pursue' it at IIT, you'd have to mug up (or prepare, as the majority of people call it) for an exam which doesn't test your software engineering capabilities at all, but only Physics, Chemistry and Maths. All the best.

who said I will be leaving animations.This is the reason why I have chosen software engineering so that I can connect myself more with gaming/software industry.
BTW,IIT is an exam which tests your knowledge in Physics,Chemistry and Maths(basic for all engineers).Its upon you whether you mug it up or learn it.I will go with the latter one.When you crack IIT,you choose your field of engineering according to your rank and correspondingly you get the placements.IIT has no other role than this.The other part of engineering is taught in respective colleges and not by iit...

 

[Varun]

What I am trying to say here is that unless you pursue some sort of engineering or Medical,you won't be able to lead a prosperous life along with your family.

Ahaha.

 

[King Cricket]

What I am trying to say here is that unless you pursue some sort of engineering or Medical,you won't be able to lead a prosperous life along with your family

This is a statement I've got inured to as I hear it every day from my mates and relatives. People in the subcontinent need to moult out from their medieval thinking processes and try to embrace modernity. So, you mean to say that a person should inhibit all his ambitions and aspirations, shut himself to the world outside, stop developing his social skills, stop all his other activities and start mugging his science book so that he can clear some entrance exam? Sorry, but that logic has so many loopholes that I won't even bother to point them out. If you think historians, sociologists, writers, and all the people belonging to a plethora of professions other than science can't lead a prosperous life, you're plain wrong.