England in India

[andrew_nixon]

Would you care to quote Chris Read's Test match batting average? I'll tell you what, I'll have a go. It's 15, or maybe it's 15.3, I'll tell you what, I'll give him 15.5 round it up a bit. Hardly impressive is it?

By the way, 'Choke' referred to big games, such as Test matches, not county matches.

Agreed, Read's test average is poor.

Nevertheless you said he wasn't a good batsman. If a first class average of nearly 50 is a poor batsman, what do you expect from a good batsman?

 

[varunvgiri]

A few very good underused Indian spinners:
Rahul Sanghvi
Murali Kartik
Ramesh Powar
Ananthapadmanabhan
Kanwaljit Singh
Amit Mishra
Sairaj Bahutule
Sarandeep Singh
Vijay Bharadwaj

And all these spinners could easily make it into the English team. So, I agree with Najot Singh Sidhu when he says spinners like Panesar are a dime a dozen in India.

This argument is quite silly. One test match is hardly enough to evaluate him. He may or may not turn out to be a good bowler. After a few tests, he may prove to be an equivalent of Sanghvi or Bahutule. Or he may turn out to be the next Vettori. Who knows?? I dont see the point of saying how good he is just after a single test. Give the guy some time to prove himself..

 

[ZoraxDoom]

I don't get why Sachin Tendulkar is rated as a good player of Spin. In his last two tests against England, he's been out to Monty Panesar for his first Test wicket and bowled my Michael Vaughan!.

He is rated a good player of spin as he destroyed Warne and Murali. And a certain Blackwell went for 16 off an over recently...
@ Vaughan - They have had barely enough chance to show what they can do, dont make assumptions that early
@ Jamesy - Same reason he isn't performing now, bad form.

 

[varunvgiri]

I don't get why Sachin Tendulkar is rated as a good player of Spin. In his last two tests against England, he's been out to Monty Panesar for his first Test wicket and bowled my Michael Vaughan!
.

An average of 57 and over 10000 runs in Test cricket proves that he is a good enough player of all types of bowling. Anyways, getting Bradman out once doesnt prove that you are the best ever bowler. To prove his true worth Panesar will have to play consistently for a long time.

 

[ZoraxDoom]

This argument is quite silly. One test match is hardly enough to evaluate him. He may or may not turn out to be a good bowler. After a few tests, he may prove to be an equivalent of Sanghvi or Bahutule. Or he may turn out to be the next Vettori. Who knows?? I dont see the point of saying how good he is just after a single test. Give the guy some time to prove himself..

He was selected on Domestic performance. All these performed about the same domestically, so I was just pointing out to M.Vaughan that there are good spinners in India apart from Kumble and Bhajji. These could have made the England side based on domestic performace, as did Panesar...

 

[varunvgiri]

He was selected on Domestic performance. All these performed about the same domestically, so I was just pointing out to M.Vaughan that there are good spinners in India apart from Kumble and Bhajji. These could have made the England side based on domestic performace, as did Panesar...

Any spinner who made it to the Indian side can make it to the English team. But I doubt all those players that you mentioned earlier were test caliber though. Also, some of them werent given a fair shot at test cricket

 

[MUFC1987]

Agreed, Read's test average is poor.

Nevertheless you said he wasn't a good batsman. If a first class average of nearly 50 is a poor batsman, what do you expect from a good batsman?

I said that his Test batting is poor, which is due to him choking on big occasions. I'm sure you'll agree that facing Pollock and Murali is a different ball game compared to facing Min Patel & Tim Murtagh.

An average of 57 and over 10000 runs in Test cricket proves that he is a good enough player of all types of bowling. Anyways, getting Bradman out once doesnt prove that you are the best ever bowler. To prove his true worth Panesar will have to play consistently for a long time.

I didn't say that Panesar was a good bowler. I made the point that Tendulkar has got out to two very average bowlers (at the moment anyway in Monty's case.)

Can't we get a Multiquote button on here?

 

[ZoraxDoom]

So? Ponting has gotten out to Baisya about 3 times. Sachin has removed Inzy 7 times. A lot of batters have fallen to substandard players, its nothing new.

 

[Kratz]

I said that his Test batting is poor, which is due to him choking on big occasions. I'm sure you'll agree that facing Pollock and Murali is a different ball game compared to facing Min Patel & Tim Murtagh.


I didn't say that Panesar was a good bowler. I made the point that Tendulkar has got out to two very average bowlers (at the moment anyway in Monty's case.)

Can't we get a Multiquote button on here?

Just becuase you get out to two shabby bowlers once in your test career does'ent mean your a crap player of spin.

So? Ponting has gotten out to Baisya about 3 times. Sachin has removed Inzy 7 times. A lot of batters have fallen to substandard players, its nothing new.

Exactly, not a good post by MUFC1987, Kumble and Bhajjji would break into the english test team easily, no english spinner at present can match those two.

 

[newzolt]

I don't get why Sachin Tendulkar is rated as a good player of Spin. In his last two tests against England, he's been out to Monty Panesar for his first Test wicket and bowled my Michael Vaughan!

See the whole thing in the context of the game.In the first innings the team was in such a position that he just couldn't attack so he did not go after Pansar.In the second innings he was aggressive as his team was having a go at the mighty England total!I hope Sachin vs Warne is history and Panesar
is definitely not in Warne's class.

 

[MUFC1987]

In his last five innings against England he's been our four times, including once to Panesar and once to Vaughan. FACT.

This is what I was basing it on.

 

[Kratz]

In his last five innings against England he's been our four times, including once to Panesar and once to Vaughan. FACT.

This is what I was basing it on.

And...................?

But still Sachin is one of the best ever player of spin.

 

[MUFC1987]

And...................?

But still Sachin is one of the best ever player of spin.

It was tongue in cheek. Capiche? I'm not exactly going to come out here saying 'Tendulkar is rubbish' when he's not am I?

 

[andrew_nixon]

I said that his Test batting is poor, which is due to him choking on big occasions. I'm sure you'll agree that facing Pollock and Murali is a different ball game compared to facing Min Patel & Tim Murtagh.

Fair enough.

Let's look at an area where we can compare them then.

As I said earlier, Chris Read's first class batting average in the two years since he was dropped is just under 50.

The equivalent area of Gerraint Jones' career would be the two years prior to his test debut. In those two years he averaged 44.

Everyone accepts that Chris Read is much better than Jones behind the stumps. At the moment he is a better batsman than Jones was when he made his test debut. So why not give him a go?

 

[barmyarmy]

Bit of suprise seeing the Indian XII. After wondering whether they were going to drop Kaif or Laxman they dropped both!
Patel will play instead of Sreesanth and the final place will be between RP Singh and Piyush Chawla depending on which strip they use. Everyone seems to think the seaming one but Jonathan Agnew's column says he believes they'll opt for the dusty one. Either way the groundsman claims that both are result pitches.

Squad Rahul Dravid (capt), Virender Sehwag, Wasim Jaffer, Sachin Tendulkar, Yuvraj Singh, Mahendra Dhoni (wk), Irfan Pathan, Munaf Patel, Harbhajan Singh, Anil Kumble, Rudra Pratap Singh, Piyush Chawla