England in India
- Thread starter m_vaughan
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tsyrmas
Club Cricketer
Sureshot said:
umm why? we have Symonds from England... and no one else... lets see who england have. Shah, Strauss, Pietersen, Geriiant and Simon Jones, looks like you win!
gaurav_indian
International Coach
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I think u forgot Panesar,Solanki,Kabir Ali?
andrew_nixon
Chairman of Selectors
Simon Jones was born in Wales, and the England team is a combined England and Wales team so no problem.
As for Australia picking overseas players, here's a list.
Kepler Wessels (South Africa)
Dav Whatmore (Sri Lanka)
Andrew Symonds
G Alexander (England)
Charles Bannerman (England)
H Carter (England)
WH Cooper (England)
AR Dell (England)
JR Hodges (England)
TK Kendall (England)
PS McDonnell (England)
WE Midwinter (England)
HA Musgrove (England)
BB Cooper (Bangladesh)
RHD Sellers (India)
CV Grimmett (New Zealand)
TU Groube (New Zealand)
Brendon Julian (New Zealand)
TJD Kelly (Ireland)
And at Under 19 Level:
Craig White (England)
Alan Mullally (England)
Neil Maxwell (Fiji)
Usman Khawaja (Pakistan)
William Sheridan (England)
Moises Henriques (Portugal)
Those last three all played in the recent Under19 World Cup, so your future is also represented by players born overseas.
Why have a go at England? All those players you mentioned had to fulfil a 4-year residential requirement, even though all but Shah had at least one English parent, which would have enabled them to play for England in any other sport without any residential qualification! It's not as if they can just turn up in England and start playing. Cricket has the strictest qualification requirements of any sport. It's not like in Athletics where Sonia O'Sullivan can represent Ireland and then just a few months later turn up in Australia and run for them in the Commonwealth Games!
Panesar and Kabir Ali were both born in England. As was Sajid Mahmood before you bring him up.
As for Australia picking overseas players, here's a list.
Kepler Wessels (South Africa)
Dav Whatmore (Sri Lanka)
Andrew Symonds
G Alexander (England)
Charles Bannerman (England)
H Carter (England)
WH Cooper (England)
AR Dell (England)
JR Hodges (England)
TK Kendall (England)
PS McDonnell (England)
WE Midwinter (England)
HA Musgrove (England)
BB Cooper (Bangladesh)
RHD Sellers (India)
CV Grimmett (New Zealand)
TU Groube (New Zealand)
Brendon Julian (New Zealand)
TJD Kelly (Ireland)
And at Under 19 Level:
Craig White (England)
Alan Mullally (England)
Neil Maxwell (Fiji)
Usman Khawaja (Pakistan)
William Sheridan (England)
Moises Henriques (Portugal)
Those last three all played in the recent Under19 World Cup, so your future is also represented by players born overseas.
Why have a go at England? All those players you mentioned had to fulfil a 4-year residential requirement, even though all but Shah had at least one English parent, which would have enabled them to play for England in any other sport without any residential qualification! It's not as if they can just turn up in England and start playing. Cricket has the strictest qualification requirements of any sport. It's not like in Athletics where Sonia O'Sullivan can represent Ireland and then just a few months later turn up in Australia and run for them in the Commonwealth Games!
gaurav_indian said:
Panesar and Kabir Ali were both born in England. As was Sajid Mahmood before you bring him up.
tsyrmas said:
Your getting quite pedantic, so here's some pedantry just for you:
Kasprowicz = Eastern European background
Ponting = English background
Hayden = Scottish Background
Langer = German Background
McGrath = Scottish Background
Warne = English background probably
Gilchrist = English background
Clarke + Clark = English backgrounds.
All the Jones that have played for Australia = Welsh backgrounds
Need I go on?
You're fighting an argument you can't win.
Stephen Bailey
Executive member
tsyrmas said:
English parents so I don't quite know what your gripe here is...
Why on earth does it matter so much anyway? As Andrew said, they all have the necessary requirements to play for their respective countries.
aditya123
National Board President
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Iam no Ganguly hater but this post really does`nt sound right to me.iceman_waugh said:I think his time has come and should retire peacefully.If you are going by Tendulkar's past laurels,then sorry,I'd bring in Ganguly in the team.Maybe he'll bat better.I don't remeber Sourav being given so many chances.
We Indians refuse to accept any bad thing on Sachin and the posters put up in the ground reflect that the player is still bigger than the game.
About Ganguly, he has been given far more chances than Tendulkar has even though he is not that great a test player and does not even have the past laurels in test cricket except a few innings.
Ganguly`s last test century came in
December 2003 ,a good two and a half years ago, and he was persisted with as recently as March 2006 inspite of all his failures in the past 2 years and inspite of not having a great test record (Avg of 40 with just 11 hundreds in 85 test matches) .
Tendulkar is a far better test cricketer any day and he has just been out of form in the past 6 matches though he has been getting the starts (many 20s in the last 10 innings).
Also Tendulkar`s last Test hundred did not come ages ago like Ganguly`s but just a series ago in December 2005.
In fact he scored a hundred in the first series he came back after the tennis elbow.
His test scores in 2005 have been 94,53,54,43,21 (Against Pakistan) and 22,109,22,19,23(Against SRL) .
Not bad at all and that gives you an average of 46.8 .
It is just the last 5 test matches that he has failed .
You don`t drop a player with close to 11,000 test runs, 74 Intl. hundreds just because he has failed in 5 test matches.
The Indian public have got so used to Tendulkar scoring hundreds game after game that they just cannot tolerate any lean patch of his.
WOULD AUSTRALIA DROP PONTING IF HE FAILS FOR 5 MATCHES ???
Stephen Bailey
Executive member
aditya123 said:
No, because he's the captain.
There is no doubting Sachin's greatness and he still is a top quality batsman, but there are signs that he isn't the force that India need him to be. Injuries take their toll on players and the fact that he's averaged 34.70 in his last 12 tests says alot. Dare I say it, he seems to becoming abit predictable in that he doesn't appear confortable when trying to bat for long periods of time. He has prooved far more effective in the one-day game since his comeback from injury, where he knows what he has to do. Further proof of this is the 28* off very few balls he got in the 2nd innings at Nagpur, he knew he had to score quickly.
aditya123 said:
This year in pakistan-
Lahore -DNB
Faisalabad 14
Karachi 23 & 26
As i have mentioned ,please do not go by any players past laurels.
I don't also mean to say that tendulkar has not done anything for India of late,but then he is blocking the place of others.
Also please do not take this as if i'm biased towards him.
Alongside tendulkar i feel that sehwag must also be rested.and harbhajan
You say that tendulakr has scored 11,000 test runs,agreed and i'm not taking away any credit from him.The Indian public have got so used to Tendulkar scoring hundreds game after game that they just cannot tolerate any lean patch of his.?
When has he scored hundred after hundred in the last 3 years ?
Please provide statistics for this.
I say once more that we still belive him to be greater than the game,which is wrong.
And the answer to you last question.
YES they would drop any player regardless of that players past performance.
This is because they need performances.Ponting would be dropped if he ever has a lean patch.You have the classic example of Stve Waugh.
Look what happened after the Ashes.Good players,especially D Martyn,who was very much effective in winning the test series against India was dropped.
aditya123
National Board President
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1.) Steve Waugh was 39 when he was finally asked to retire because they felt that he was too old to continueand I would hav recommended the same if Tendulkar was 39.iceman_waugh said:
Sadly (for some) ,Tendulkar is just 33.
2.) Can you tell me, who are the players whose places a small
cricketer like Sachin is `blocking`?
3.) Agreed, Martyn and Clarke were dropped after the Ashes but now the Aussie selectors have realized that they made a big mistake by doing that and now the two are in the side again .
Also Clarke and Martyn are in no way comparable to legends like Lara and Tendulkar.
4.) Tendulkar may not have scored centuries as consistently last year and the 5 games he has played this year. The fact is that due to the injury , he has never been able to continuously play for the whole year.
As I said , he has had a decent tim in the 8 tests he played in 2005 .
He has only played 5 matches this season.
Neither Sachin not his fans feel that Sachin is greater than the game.
Would you say the same thing if Dravid fails for 10 or 15 innings ?
These players have proved themselves time and again at the highest level and suddenly blooding in a team of youngsters ahead of a player like Tendulkar will not be the most sensible thing to do.
The theory of `blooding in youngsters` looks good on paper and has been very good in ODIs of late which has prompted some people to make drastic changes in the test side.
Test cricket is very ruthless and its not easy for youngsters to turn up and perform .
The fact that Yuvraj, a player who has had 6 years Intl. experience is still finding it difficult to cement himself proves it.
Yuvraj still seems to be struggling in test cricket.
We already have a lineup which has players who are not comfortable in test cricket and blooding in a youngster in place of Sachin will leave us with only Dravid to rely upon.
But you can always change the captain if he is not performing.stevie said:
That is a balanced opinion but I hate one thing with sportslovers in India.
They love to give our heroes a big fall from greatness one day to absolute position of ridicule the other day. They start ridiculing their heroes far too quickly.
m_vaughan
Chairman of Selectors
I think Sachin will always remain one of the best players the game has seen. But even great player's career does end some day. I dont think his past laurels should be considered too much, and if it is found that he is not performing to what is expected, should be dropped.
guyofcricket
Club Cricketer
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No doubt the little master is a genius but............
the form he is in the moment shows that he struggles at fast bowling as of Flintoff even Akhtar trouble him when India toured Pakistan.
I think he had this injury which was troubling him but i think age is getting on to him.
Why not try youngsters like KAIF,GAMBHIR. Not only that , Kaif and Gambhir are excellent fielders which could have helped them. India needed to go against the final 3rd test match against England with players who were iin form but rather opt with experience.
I know experience is the key but i think they should not have taken chances because it just cost them a draw series.
Just my views
the form he is in the moment shows that he struggles at fast bowling as of Flintoff even Akhtar trouble him when India toured Pakistan.
I think he had this injury which was troubling him but i think age is getting on to him.
Why not try youngsters like KAIF,GAMBHIR. Not only that , Kaif and Gambhir are excellent fielders which could have helped them. India needed to go against the final 3rd test match against England with players who were iin form but rather opt with experience.
I know experience is the key but i think they should not have taken chances because it just cost them a draw series.
Just my views
The test was lost when Dravid sent England in, the pitch appeared to be as flat as can be. Pathan isn't great on those type of pitches and the fact he has 2 good spinners that would have loved to use the pitch in the 4th inns. All of this shows how stupid of a move it was.
