England's tour of India - 2021

[Aislabie]

I wonder why English fans are not focusing their spotlights on the spinners as much as they should have? I know that us Indian fans have a tendency to be overcritical of our own sides but the one thing we frequently blamed for our SENA failures besides the general haplessness of our batsmen (that tends to happen at home too) was the total ineffectiveness of our pacers on pitches that they were supposed to take advantage of.

Oh yeah, that really does puzzle me tbh.

Like, okay - the pitch is spinning hard from day one, which isn't ideal. Ashwin was able to take five for 43 from 24 overs on day two, and even if he's the second-best spinner in the world those are still some absurd figures for day two of a Test. Of course he was helped by being able to bowl at some English batsmen who aren't all that great against spin, but it still indicates that conditions were very helpful.

So far so good, but then why on day three was Ashwin (a number eight with no centuries against teams not called "West Indies") able to crunch his way to 106? It's definitely not good enough that the English spinners to let that happen, regardless of if Ashwin batted well or not (I assume he did, but I was sleeping at the time).

The trouble is, when I went through all the spinners in English cricket, it became obvious that these are pretty much the best spinners available - especially as Simon Harmer has now officially given up on qualifying for England.

All the spinners in England currently

So I'm going to colour-code these with a key (the key makes no reference to their batting skills):
International-quality spin bowler
Good quality county bowler, could maybe do a job in helpful conditions
Bang average county bowler
Should be released by their county
Too early to say

Derbyshire
Matt Critchley (24, leg-spin) - 82 wickets @ 44.85 (2 5WI, best 6/73)

Durham
Liam Trevaskis (21, left-orthodox) - 7 wickets @ 76.57 (best 2/96)
Scott Borthwick (30, leg-spin) - 208 wickets @ 38.94 (3 5WI, best 6/70)

Essex
Simon Harmer (31, off-spin) - 646 wickets @ 27.10 (37 5WI, best 9/95)
Aron Nijjar (26, left-orthodox) - 19 wickets @ 41.31 (best 2/28)

Glamorgan
Andrew Salter (27, off-spin) - 86 wickets @ 48.02 (best 4/80)
Prem Sisodiya (24, left-orthodox) - 15 wickets @ 24.60 (best 4/79)

Gloucestershire
Graeme van Buuren (30, left-orthodox) - 88 wickets @ 32.63 (best 4/12)
Tom Smith (33, left-orthodox) - 78 wickets @ 49.58 (best 4/35)

Hampshire
Liam Dawson (30, left-orthodox) - 205 wickets @ 35.21 (3 5WI, best 7/51)
Mason Crane (23, leg-spin) - 96 wickets @ 45.16 (2 5WI, best 5/35)

Kent
Hamidullah Qadri (20, off-spin) - 38 wickets @ 38.75 (1 5WI, best 5/60)
Imran Qayyum (27, left-orthodox) - 12 wickets @ 43.66 (best 3/158)

Lancashire
Matt Parkinson (24, leg-spin) - 62 wickets @ 25.22 (3 5WI, best 6/23)
Tom Hartley (22, left-orthodox) - 6 wickets @ 54.00 (best 3/79)
Jack Morley (19, left-orthodox) - 5 wickets @ 14.20 (best 4/62)

Leicestershire
Callum Parkinson (24, left-orthodox) - 54 wickets @ 43.33 (1 5WI, best 8/148)
Arron Lilley (29, off-spin) - 43 wickets @ 33.20 (2 5WI, best 5/23)

Middlesex
Nathan Sowter (28, leg-spin) - 18 wickets @ 44.16 (best 3/42)
Thilan Walallawita (22, left-orthodox) - 6 wickets @ 40.83 (best 3/28)
Luke Hollman (20, leg-spin) - no first-class experience

Northamptonshire
Rob Keogh (29, off-spin) - 89 wickets @ 43.49 (1 5WI, best 9/52)
Saif Zaib (22, left-orthodox) - 17 wickets @ 29.23 (1 5WI, best 6/115)
Simon Kerrigan (31, left-orthodox) - 325 wickets @ 30.56 (13 5WI, best 9/51)

Nottinghamshire
Samit Patel (36, left-orthodox) - 357 wickets @ 38.23 (5 5WI, best 7/68)
Liam Patterson-White (22, left-orthodox) - 20 wickets @ 21.00 (1 5WI, best 5/73)
Matt Carter (24, off-spin) - 50 wickets @ 39.78 (2 5WI, best 7/56)

Somerset
Jack Leach (29, left-orthodox) - 293 wickets @ 25.74 (20 5WI, best 8/85)
Max Waller (32, leg-spin) - 10 wickets @ 49.30 (best 3/33)

Surrey
Gareth Batty (43, off-spin) - 682 wickets @ 32.78 (27 5WI, best 8/64)
Amar Virdi (22, off-spin) - 91 wickets @ 28.08 (4 5WI, best 8/61)
Dan Moriarty (21, left-orthodox) - 17 wickets @ 20.11 (3 5WI, best 6/70)

Sussex
Will Beer (32, leg-spin) - 40 wickets @ 37.00 (2 5WI, best 6/29)
Jack Carson (20, off-spin) - 15 wickets @ 22.66 (1 5WI, best 5/93)

Warwickshire
Danny Briggs (29, left-orthodox) - 270 wickets @ 34.77 (8 5WI, best 6/45)
Alex Thomson (27, off-spin) - 20 wickets @ 38.55 (1 5WI, best 6/138)

Worcestershire
Moeen Ali (33, off-spin) - 368 wickets @ 37.94 (12 5WI, best 6/29)
Brett D'Oliveira (28, leg-spin) - 57 wickets @ 49.98 (2 5WI, best 7/92)

Yorkshire
Dom Bess (23, off-spin) - 129 wickets @ 30.23 (9 5WI, best 7/117)
Adil Rashid (32, leg-spin) - 512 wickets @ 35.05 (20 5WI, best 7/107)
Josh Poysden (29, leg-spin) - 33 wickets @ 32.84 (2 5WI, best 5/29)
Jack Shutt (23, off-spin) - 2 wickets @ 52.00 (best 2/14)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Statistically Sensible Suggestions

To be considered a "sensible" selection, a player must have:

• EITHER 100 or more wickets at an average of under 40
• OR 50 or more wickets at an average of under 30
• AND be under the age of 36 (this rules out guys like Gareth Batty)

The sensible selections are:

• Moeen Ali (Worcestershire)
• Dom Bess (Yorkshire)
• Scott Borthwick (Durham) - Has for the last few years been a specialist batsman and part-time leggie)
• Danny Briggs (Warwickshire)
• Liam Dawson (Hampshire)
• Simon Harmer (Essex) - Has announced he's not planning to qualify for England
• Simon Kerrigan (Northamptonshire) - Literally needed years away from the professional game after his last Test match
• Jack Leach (Somerset)
• Matt Parkinson (Yorkshire)
• Adil Rashid (Yorkshire) - Has made himself unavailable for Test cricket
• Amar Virdi (Surrey)

However there's one more name I'd like to add to the list:

• Dan Moriarty (Surrey)

The literal only vaguely sensible spinning options available to England are:

• Moeen Ali
• Dom Bess
• Danny Briggs
• Liam Dawson
• Jack Leach
• Matt Parkinson
• Amar Virdi

Also Dan Moriarty if you want to gamble on youth.

How many of those spinners would even make a Ranji side? I don't feel like I'm being unreasonable by saying that Jack Leach is the best spinner available to England at the moment, nor that they've probably picked their best spinners for this Test series. And that should be concerning to all involved.

The best thing the ECB could do would be to work out a deal with Sri Lanka Cricket whereby once the pandemic has eased, about a dozen English spinners get sent over to play in the Premier League Tournament every year. The standard isn't great but it'll be a fantastic education on how to bowl on turning pitches, and there are plenty of wiley, experienced spinners to pick the brains of. Guys like Dinuka Hettiarachchi

 

[Ed Smith]

Everyone yesterday: "English fans need to pipe down and just accept that they're not very good on spinning pitches. All this complaining is ridiculous"

Everyone today: "OHMYGOD THAT ROOT LBW WAS 100% OUT EVEN THOUGH THE IMPACT WAS UMPIRE'S CALL, THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS!!!!1!"

Can't imagine why the reaction is so...

 

[Aislabie]

Can't imagine why the reaction is so...

I am baffled

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Oh yeah, that really does puzzle me tbh.

Like, okay - the pitch is spinning hard from day one, which isn't ideal. Ashwin was able to take five for 43 from 24 overs on day two, and even if he's the second-best spinner in the world those are still some absurd figures for day two of a Test. Of course he was helped by being able to bowl at some English batsmen who aren't all that great against spin, but it still indicates that conditions were very helpful.

So far so good, but then why on day three was Ashwin (a number eight with no centuries against teams not called "West Indies") able to crunch his way to 106? It's definitely not good enough that the English spinners to let that happen, regardless of if Ashwin batted well or not (I assume he did, but I was sleeping at the time).

The trouble is, when I went through all the spinners in English cricket, it became obvious that these are pretty much the best spinners available - especially as Simon Harmer has now officially given up on qualifying for England.


The literal only vaguely sensible spinning options available to England are:

• Moeen Ali
• Dom Bess
• Danny Briggs
• Liam Dawson
• Jack Leach
• Matt Parkinson
• Amar Virdi

Also Dan Moriarty if you want to gamble on youth.

How many of those spinners would even make a Ranji side? I don't feel like I'm being unreasonable by saying that Jack Leach is the best spinner available to England at the moment, nor that they've probably picked their best spinners for this Test series. And that should be concerning to all involved.

The best thing the ECB could do would be to work out a deal with Sri Lanka Cricket whereby once the pandemic has eased, about a dozen English spinners get sent over to play in the Premier League Tournament every year. The standard isn't great but it'll be a fantastic education on how to bowl on turning pitches, and there are plenty of wiley, experienced spinners to pick the brains of. Guys like Dinuka Hettiarachchi

Why do England not have a spinners academy like India has a pacers academy in NCA where special training is given to pacers

 

[Ed Smith]

Why do England not have a spinners academy like India has a pacers academy in NCA where special training is given to pacers

Sounds like it would require spending money and forward thinking. Hardly things the ECB are renowned for

 

[wasteyouryouth]

Sounds like it would require spending money and forward thinking. Hardly things the ECB are renowned for

They're basically having a spinners' camp at the moment. There's four or five out there and working with Jeetan Patel and being in and around the first team.

 

[Aislabie]

Sounds like it would require spending money and forward thinking. Hardly things the ECB are renowned for

That's a little harsh - they're more than willing to spend money on Loughborough and on Hundred consultancy fees

 

[SaiSrini]

Possibly one of the best 'feel good knocks' in recent times - TAKE A BOW ASH!! What the previous Australia tour has done for him is HERE TO BE SEEN!! Nobody can now question him for his overseas returns and nobody can now call him a 'home bully'. And as many in social media are pointing out, that fighting knock that he played at Sydney to help India draw a crucial test match has sorta revitalized his test batting, which was worryingly on the wane in recent times. The camaraderie that he enjoys within the team was exemplified by Siraj's animated celebration when Ash reached century.

Seriously happy to see Ash perform like this!

On this pitch, its a shut case now. Actually, it is now time to reward the curator of this test match pretty handsomely for preparing a pitch that kept both batsman and bowlers interested from Day 1. And have the same thing over in Motera where hopefully it should spin more (if the recent SMAT final is taken into account).

 

[Ed Smith]

On this pitch, its a shut case now. Actually, it is now time to reward the curator of this test match pretty handsomely for preparing a pitch that kept both batsman and bowlers interested from Day 1. And have the same thing over in Motera where hopefully it should spin more (if the recent SMAT final is taken into account).

Obvious wind up is obvious

 

[wasteyouryouth]

Just read that Moeen is apparently flying home to England after this match for a break.

Virat will be happy to hear that.

 

[Ed Smith]

Just read that Moeen is apparently flying home to England after this match for a break.

Virat will be happy to hear that.

A break from not playing?

 

[wasteyouryouth]

A break from not playing?

Yes and then back for the limited overs leg and then the IPL. I guess this was the plan before he got Covid and before he was released by RCB.

 

[Ed Smith]

Yes and then back for the limited overs leg and then the IPL. I guess this was the plan before he got Covid and before he was released by RCB.

Howlingly stupid to have dropped Bess then. Like why bother to piss him off for the sake of one match to play an out of form Mo? Should have just gone home once he got over COVID

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Howlingly stupid to have dropped Bess then. Like why bother to piss him off for the sake of one match to play an out of form Mo? Should have just gone home once he got over COVID

@wasteyouryouth
Don't look at the tag. Just the words.

 

[Dutch]

Sounds like it would require spending money and forward thinking. Hardly things the ECB are renowned for

I say old chap, steady on aye, don't want to ruffle the feathers and all that. Another Gin and T?