Ideas to overcome online quitters

[Chunnster]

In RLL2 you get a boost in attributes if you are the player making the tackle, if you switch to other players then you will not be as effective.

Sorry Ross... it doesn't work that way. As veteran level auto tackling holds the line better than user tackle, so people cheese and don't tackle and it suits them at least THREE times better than if they were tackling... OR THEY WOULD>

I have had RLL (platinum trophy if hadn't eventually sold without the ridiculous 1000 offload trophy still unearned) and now have RLL2... I love online but have not bothered since everyone cheesed.. I have played about five games.

In Career Mode however I have played 21 seasons... or 400 plus games. Nuff said. You cannot allow auto defence and doing so ruined the game experience and fairness online, as no reward for true all round game ability... but you did eliminate dummy half run cheese which was half the battle... but the other half was lost sorry.

Have to make it more than a 'boost' if veteran level as not noticeable... though superior to most I played, I think I won once (over a Big Ant employee) and he cheesed the worst.. I just pulled off a lucky 12-10 win with great tries.... whereas he ran through my controlled defender as I am not in the AI's mind's eye and will leave the line and/or not keep perfect shape with them... it is part of the game... but the cheesers wouldn't have that. So it was pick-fullback, do nothing, wait for the ball.... yawn! Then they would all out attack with full control and message abuse if won, saying they were the best.... um, no, you and the AI combined in pure mozarella cheese to exploit the game's weakness in online set-up and ruin the online section of the best oval ball spots sim ever made... which was painful for me.

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Simple solution - let the AI/comp take over for the guy who quits/disconnected for whatever reason. It could be a network issue, rage quit or power failure; it doesn't matter as the person still connected shouldn't be penalized.

As for online save and resuming the game at a later date/time, it isn't a feasible option as you may not have the two guys online at the same time at a later date. Let the AI take over for the guy who quits and let him take a loss against his record.

You nailed it bro XD Loss for quitter regardless of reason for leaving... AI takes over and you play on or save your game to return to it....

and MattW I disagree again... you are being too rose-bespectacled... you need a water tight system... and you don't realise that quitters play the MOST... they are not looking for a good game as you quaintly put it, but rather to win or rage quit... that is that. You don't build an online system for a sports game to facilitate the good guys... we will always be good.... you defend against the losers who are vast and the quitters who are prevalent in a longer game like cricket especially if writing on the wall that one is outmatched early on often....

No chances, no warnings.... AI takes over and quitters get a loss... not if pause and quit either, or they will hard quit to preserve stats and deny you yours.... no, if their ps3 turns off or they lose connection they must also get a loss. There can be no mercy in this dojo or it will not work. Like school, it is the good schools that err on the side of over-discipline... the bad ones go all PC and then watch it all unravel. Please be sure you realise any quitting or cheesing susceptibility will be exploited by trolls and online will be ruined. It is an important thing to get right. Hence me explaining why RLL2 had it only slightly wrong but it meant unplayable for me.... also, in this patch thing / update, I only want to buy it if you have extended the replays... so return to play of the ball or similar, yes? Have you Ross? They only show you running in from 10m out on 90m blockbuster tries.

 

[Markkkkk]

Still think mine is the way to go trying to be as objective as possible but still

 

[MattW]

and MattW I disagree again... you are being too rose-bespectacled... you need a water tight system... and you don't realise that quitters play the MOST... they are not looking for a good game as you quaintly put it, but rather to win or rage quit... that is that. You don't build an online system for a sports game to facilitate the good guys... we will always be good.... you defend against the losers who are vast and the quitters who are prevalent in a longer game like cricket especially if writing on the wall that one is outmatched early on often....

But the saving system in place would allow the person who just got quit on to be the one to decide whether they are in a good match, there's no reason to have the game assume a dropped connection = quit.

Sure, let the person who got quit on just press a button and take the win (or take the result of the match simulating to completion) - but legitimate disconnects are a solved technology problem with this game, so they should be dealt with separately from quitters.

 

[Chunnster]

Still think mine is the way to go trying to be as objective as possible but still

Yes, but I played ashes 09 into #1 position (in the world) in ODIs, Tests and Ashes Tests.... so I have literally played (actually literally, lol) the MOST online cricket... so I am imparting my wisdom and judgement on a topic wherein I have experienced and understand nearly EVERY angle and permutation.

I am not really offering an opinion... lol, sorry, I just call a spade a spade... I am singlehandedly trying to ensure this section of the game is locked-up and or rescued from being ruined / exploited so this game rocks all of our worlds.

WE kind of need a benevolent dictatorship on this one issue and a democratic vote on the rest. Some just don't understand how online cricket actually works.... it is not this forum.... it is randoms, thousands of them.... maybe 100s of 1000s of them... and 80% will quit....70% won't care, may have hired the game and will never play again..... they are not honourable guys and gals like us, okay? End of story.....

There will be the 786 crew who quit every game et cetera..... I was a good player and with no quit allowance on ashes cricket 09 as everyone modem quit to avoid even the adjustment to 'stop quitters' so that the game was forgot unless they paused and quit, which no rager does, I got to finish 20% of my games... and most were 5 over odis.... yes, it was never about time.

You cannot self-project when gurading against cheesers and quitters and think honourably... you must think 'scum'... and protect accordingly... as they are the only ones you need to worry about... and they are not the minority either.

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But the saving system in place would allow the person who just got quit on to be the one to decide whether they are in a good match, there's no reason to have the game assume a dropped connection = quit.

Sure, let the person who got quit on just press a button and take the win (or take the result of the match simulating to completion) - but legitimate disconnects are a solved technology problem with this game, so they should be dealt with separately from quitters.

???? What pray tell, with all of our hi-speed connections, is a legitimate disconnect? That happens so often we need to allow for it? HUH??? Are you on dial-up?

ALL disconns are quits.... trust me. And only that / my system works... I am not waiting even 30 secs for someone to 'return' (as 99% never will - have you played cricket online for hundreds of hours?) and if playing a friend it will be a friendly game anyway and not done through online ranking game, I mean, wtf??

It just needs a simple but ruthless system.... If I have a one in a blue moon power cut or someone trips over the power lead, I'll cop it. That is MY fault.

 

[MattW]

???? What pray tell, with all of our hi-speed connections, is a legitimate disconnect? That happens so often we need to allow for it? HUH??? Are you on dial-up?

Well IC2010 for example had online play that would randomly just disconnect, as discussed a lot here at the time. Also, with cricket you're going to have more players from India and other places with less reliable connections compared to a League game.

Assuming Big Ant will have more stable online code, cricket games can last hours or even days - there's no reason why one connection blip should mean the end of that.

As long as the player still connected has the option to just boot someone who drops the connection, if I'm willing to wait 30 seconds or whatever for my opponent to reconnect, I don't see why I shouldn't be able to or what impact it would have on the system.

 

[Chunnster]

Well IC2010 for example had online play that would randomly just disconnect, as discussed a lot here at the time. Also, with cricket you're going to have more players from India and other places with less reliable connections compared to a League game.

Assuming Big Ant will have more stable online code, cricket games can last hours or even days - there's no reason why one connection blip should mean the end of that.

As long as the player still connected has the option to just boot someone who drops the connection, if I'm willing to wait 30 seconds or whatever for my opponent to reconnect, I don't see why I shouldn't be able to or what impact it would have on the system.

IC10 problem is irrelevant and non-applicable here.... move on. And no I won't wait 30 seconds, as I will do it hundreds of times.... life is short.

Stop catering for 1% of the community and ensure you protect against 80% of the community ruining it for the hardcore, multi-game playing 19% and the other 80% when they are not quitting.... It is basic commonsense. In my case, a view accrued from much experience... but not on IC10.... why? Due to quitting factor> I simply didn't even bother.

 

[MattW]

And no I won't wait 30 seconds, as I will do it hundreds of times.... life is short.

That's fine, you shouldn't be forced to wait - but why shouldn't I be able to choose to wait?

 

[Chunnster]

That's fine, you shouldn't be forced to wait - but why shouldn't I be able to choose to wait?

Because it isn't about you or me... it is about numbers / percentages.... and importance of problem.... not accounting for every last frikking thing including your niche desires, and in doing so, stuff up what is simple cuisine when there aren't too many chefs in the kitchen fu**ing up the menu's design and purpose..... streamline, streamline, and prioritise.... that is what is needed.... not for me, not for you - for EVERYONE. That only some of us know what all of us need is not elitism, or if it is, it is life. And it is for the best. I make no apologies for that and do not believe everyone's opinion is valid. LOL... sorry.

You don't get to wait because your solution has no problem. I don't need to wait because, to deal with all quitters and discourage them permanently, even an 'accidental' disconnection is a quit... so I have nothing to 'wait' for.... and like I said, if it is your friend you are not playing a ranked game unless you are boosting... so, as said, move on XD

 

[MattW]

You don't get to wait because your solution has no problem.

I ask because I'm fairly sure that it is how it is going to be implemented. Ross hasn't been specific on the exact implementation, but here's a few posts

We are Beta testing the save/resume system and seeing how we can deal with games that are not to be resumed (either side can deny resumption).

Yes, as long as both machines haven't actually crashed then the recovery and continuation is possible, at that time or some time in the future upon mutual agreement of the players.

There is a huge difference between quits and disconnects - "quits" or forfeits cannot be resumed.

Currently it is nearly impossible to work out on a console who has quit unless they do it via a menu as there is an intermediate connection to PSN/XBLA it is not a strict peer-to-peer connection. If someone pulls the plug then we don't have a 100% idea of who is at fault.

Games do not have to be resumed, it is a choice. It is then your choice whether you play someone again too.

 

[isrararrafi]

When you have online saving like this game will, there's no need to worry about intention - someone with good intentions should be able to resume once their console resets or their internet comes back online, within reason.

Being able to just pick up where you dropped a connection (or near to it) should resolve most of the unintended quitting problem. Obviously they could track behaviour so that someone whose connection drops out at wickets so they can go back to the last save point would be noticed, but otherwise, I think it will be very clear who is quitting and who dropped out simply by the ability of those who are wanting a good game to just get back in there once they can.

Ross did say the game automatically saves whenever a wicket falls. So disconnecting and reconnecting is not going to give you your wicket back.

 

[BigAntStudios]

I ask because I'm fairly sure that it is how it is going to be implemented. Ross hasn't been specific on the exact implementation, but here's a few posts

I'd like to be harsh on quitters, however we have to remember this (as above), I don't want to punish non-quitters:

Currently it is nearly impossible to work out on a console who has quit unless they do it via a menu as there is an intermediate connection to PSN/XBLA it is not a strict peer-to-peer connection. If someone pulls the plug then we don't have a 100% idea of who is at fault.

 

[Dutch]

Probaly been mentioned before but I think incentives for not quitting is a way of rewarding honest players who win fairly or take a knock on the chin when losing. Extra points or something.......

 

[BigAntStudios]

Probaly been mentioned before but I think incentives for not quitting is a way of rewarding honest players who win fairly or take a knock on the chin when losing. Extra points or something.......

This is generally how we have tried to do it, positive reinforcement where possible, points for playing through, not just the win.

 

[mattk]

I liked how it worked in AFL Live but obviously Cricket is an entirely different game. I'm backing Big Ant to come up with a suitable system

 

[Biggs]

Not that I'll be playing much online, but couldn't you restrict it to a few match-types that would be guaranteed to be completed? Maybe a maximum 20 over type online competition. That way you'll get a higher turn over of players finishing a match... rather than 50+ over games that get quit when you're so far behind? How much demand is there really to play a 5 day test online? Not being facetious, just curious...