India in Australia

[sohum]

How can you say that after Symonds destroyed you in the last ODI series? Jaques has also had allot more success so far in his career and averages about 6-7 more runs in FC cricket to Jaffer.

I'm not sure if you noticed but this is Test cricket. And if you're going to bring FC cricket into it, Jaffer scored a triple century in his second first class match. I don't think Jaques did that.

Anyone can block though especially on low & dead subcontient wickets.

Oh right. So how come it took the mighty Aussies so many years to conquer the final frontier if it is so simple?

Jaques averages in the mid-high 60's while Jaffer averages in high 30's? I don't think it's a contest that Jaques is better?

... Ganguly averaged over a 100 after his first game. You really have to let him play more test cricket--for example as many games as Jaffer has played. So it definitely is a contest even if you cannot comprehend it.

 

[aditya123]

On another note, we need some counterattacking effort with the bat and seeing the way Tendulkar operates in tests these days, it is least likely to come from him.
Maybe, VVS will do it.

 

[Cricketman]

I say drop Dravid down the order, and open with Laxman. I remember it working once against Pakistan (on a flat deck, although).
Or, we could drop Yuvraj and go back with Karthik or Sehwag- THE MORE VIABLE OPTION

 

[sohum]

Sorry. I'm cool now. Just can't get over how horrible Rahul Dravid is.

You won't be able to achieve too much in life if you fuss over something that doesn't exist.

I amazed at how out of touch Dravid looks. Granted, he's not had many opportunites to score, but when he has he hasn't got near putting it away.

I blame it on our poor team selection. Although I'll harp on this after I read over all the silly posts that have been made during the first session.

Do the indian batsmen even want to win tests or do all they care about is trying to slowly make runs an hope for a draw.

Have you even watched India bat before this test or are you always going to be drawing conclusions from one instance?

And this guy (Dravid) is supposedly better then Hayden (the man who made a century in the 1st innings)?

That was a mindblowing 5 runs off 66 balls!

Clark is class. Always gets the breakthrough no matter the batsman.

Okay so you will judge Dravid by one innings but will cry all over the forums when anyone tries to do the same thing with Ponting or Hussey?

 

[aditya123]

With how big the MCG outfield is, they should be getting 3's when it's going out nearly as far as the boundary. The Australian's were running 4's against England last year!

That`ll be a major problem with most Indian batsmen with the exception of Yuvraj,Dhoni or Sachin.
However, with the power those batsmen generate, they may not be needed to run that much !:happy

 

[sohum]

Okay--now time to harp on the team selections. Harbhajan has already shown how useless he is and I only hope that a crumbling pitch will help his cause--though I wouldn't count on it. And now not having an opener who would provide momentum has killed the start of our innings.

Dravid said he was confident opening the innings but he clearly did not demonstrate this today. Which shows that we need two openers. We need Karthik or Sehwag--we just cannot stuff up our whole batting order to fit in Yuvraj Singh. To validate Yuvi's selection, I think he will have to score at least as many runs as his and Dravid's average combined because we basically sacrificed Dravid to the Aussies.

That said, the Aussies bowled well. Though we don't know how well because there was no real attempt to score runs until Laxman arrived at the crease. It was pathetic to watch and my disappointment was compounded by the fact that I woke up at 5.15 in the morning to watch it.

Hogg looks dangerous, actually, and I'm sure he will snare a couple of big wickets such as Sachin and Laxman. He's getting very quick turn and bounce.

I think if Australia snare Tendulkar early, India will be wrapped up for less than 250.

 

[aditya123]

Okay so you will judge Dravid by one innings but will cry all over the forums when anyone tries to do the same thing with Ponting or Hussey?

I was itching to make that comment but refrained from doing so because I wanted to wait for Dravid to get back to some sort of touch and score some runs before I did that.

 

[sohum]

I was itching to make that comment but refrained from doing so because I wanted to wait for Dravid to get back to some sort of touch and score some runs before I did that.

Umm.... I have seen Dravid score and score big enough in the past to realize his class. That said, I'm sure Ben's comment was made in the intensity of the moment.

 

[aussie_ben91]

Wait till Dravid gets back to form and see how we Indians on this forum pounce upon you.
He`ll have his days on this tour, don`t you worry.

Im not saying his a bad batsman, his still not as prolific as Hayden is. That's for sure.

I'm not sure if you noticed but this is Test cricket. And if you're going to bring FC cricket into it, Jaffer scored a triple century in his second first class match. I don't think Jaques did that.

There is a massive difference. Jaques is still more prolific.

Oh right. So how come it took the mighty Aussies so many years to conquer the final frontier if it is so simple?

Go watch Hayden's 1st tour of India.

... Ganguly averaged over a 100 after his first game. You really have to let him play more test cricket--for example as many games as Jaffer has played. So it definitely is a contest even if you cannot comprehend it.

To me it's pretty obvious that Jaques is the better batsman so much that I don't think a comparison needs to be drawn. I remember seeing him destroy Dale Steyn in his ODI debut, hit him for like 5 boundaries in succession.

 

[sohum]

Im not saying his a bad batsman, his still not as prolific as Hayden is. That's for sure.

Agreed. But he is not the type of batsman whose job is to dominate so you cannot hold that against him. For example, that would be similar to me bagging Hayden because he cannot drop anchor as well as Dravid.

Go watch Hayden's 1st tour of India.

What happened to everyone else in that tour? Especially one Mr. Ponting?

To me it's pretty obvious that Jaques is the better batsman so much that I don't think a comparison needs to be drawn. I remember seeing him destroy Dale Steyn in his ODI debut, hit him for like 5 boundaries in succession.

Fair enough. I think it's risky to judge someone so early on in their career especially when we see the farce that was the career of Andrew Strauss and what may become the career of Stephen Harmison. Might as well add Sehwag to that list as well, since everyone involved with our team seem to want him out.

 

[aussie_ben91]

Agreed. But he is not the type of batsman whose job is to dominate so you cannot hold that against him. For example, that would be similar to me bagging Hayden because he cannot drop anchor as well as Dravid.

I suppose. I've seen Hayden build slower innings' though.

What happened to everyone else in that tour? Especially one Mr. Ponting?

I thought we were comparing Hayden/Dravid?

Fair enough. I think it's risky to judge someone so early on in their career especially when we see the farce that was the career of Andrew Strauss and what may become the career of Stephen Harmison. Might as well add Sehwag to that list as well, since everyone involved with our team seem to want him out.

Jaques isn't world-class yet but Jaques has had a similar start to his career the same way the likes of Hayden, Hussey and allot of other Australian bat have had in their Test Career once they hit the age of their late 20's. I can see him being in the same mold as Hayden albeit probably not as successful.

I'd still say Strauss, Sehwag and Graeme Smith are still allot better batsman then Jaffer aswell.

 

[pal]

What happened to everyone else in that tour? Especially one Mr. Ponting?

Well, on the "low & dead subcontient wickets" that "anyone can block", I would guess he averaged more than 3.4 runs?

 

[aditya123]

Im not saying his a bad batsman, his still not as prolific as Hayden is. That's for sure.

With Respect to Jaques
There is a massive difference. Jaques is still more prolific.

So you compare a batsman who is out of touch to one who is in the form of his life and make a judgement as to who is better.
This is the point that I`ll make about most comparisions that you make.
Tendulkar and Dravid have both made their runs over a prolonged time perion which means that they`ve been doing it consistently for sometime.
Whereas Hayden and Ponting have both scored enormous amount of runs in a short space of time (may not be the same as very few tests as Australia play a lot more test cricket than India).

Would it have been fair to compare Tendulkar with Hayden in 1995 ? Would it have been fair to compare Tendulkar and Ponting in 1998 ?
No, because one was in the form of his life and the other was`nt.

Having said all that I have it is still difficult to conclude as to who is the better player ? I`ll leave that to an individual`s opinion.

Comparing 2 players involves various parameters and not just the number of runs scored. The dynamics just change with every nation.

 

[sohum]

I thought we were comparing Hayden/Dravid?

Nope, we were arguing your comment that anyone can block on a slow and low subcontinent wicket, something you used to put down Dravid's performances.

 

[aussie_ben91]

Well, on the "low & dead subcontient wickets" that "anyone can block", I would guess he averaged more than 3.4 runs?

I guess batting at a strike-rate of under 20 and being dropped & being caught off of no-ball both on 0 is suppose to set the world alight especially when our bowling attack is supposedly significantly weaker then it has been in the past?