India in England Jun-Sept 2014

[Skater]

two tests is all our indian test team will last, mentally and physically, it was good in a way SA tour was cut short.

We are basically running out of steam byt the third test and become fodder crop for feed to home teams even sides that were struggling like hell.

The more 5 Test series you play, the better you'll get at the stamina side.

 

[grkrama]

hopefully.......

 

[Benauds appreci]

Poor poor showing from India in this 5th test. Shocking!

 

[bigred]

Fantastic come back from England. I was so depressed after the lord's game but there's new hope that England can get back up somewhere close to the top of the rankings again.

West Indies away won't be easy because the conditions will be so different to those we had in the last three tests, but if we can come away with a series win there and then beat New Zealand back at home, we might just be able to compete with the Aussies next year.

Looking ahead to the winter of test cricket, I'd make a couple of changes to the side. One would be Hales coming in for Robson and the other would be to bring in Kerrigan for one of the seamers. Probably Jordan. Not ideal but I just think the pitches seem to take turn more and more in the Caribbean these days, so we can't afford just to go in with Moeen Ali alone.

If we only pick 3 seamers in the eleven then we'll probably only take 5 in the squad. That would mean 2 of our 7 current quicks wouldn't go. I'd personally leave behind Stokes and Plunkett as I'm a massive Jordan and Finn fan.

Stokes and Plunkett should go on the Lions tour of SA. I'd also like to see Meaker and Lewis Gregory in that squad. Meaker seems to be getting back to his best and Gregory looks like a serious talent to me.

 

[ferg512]

The sad thing for me is having to endure watching these guys play Johnson and co. this summer, will they even make 50?

 

[ferg512]

this may sound harsh to eng fans but be warned you guys have done nothing incredible, this was a pathetic absymal performance by india, if you go on believing you guys are on the right track you will be found wanting in lots of departments soon enough, but it may just be that late to stop it.

Agreed, we can't just forget how abysmal England were playing previously. Sure they've gained some confidence from these wins but in reality they would have faced more of a test against Bangladesh. This Indian team just simply didn't want to be there, and who can blame them really? By the time the world cup and the next IPL rolls around this series (and the Aus one) will be a thing of the past.

 

[War]

Sidharth Monga: Spirit departs sorry India | Cricket News | England v India - Investec Test Series | ESPN Cricinfo

When asked if some of the players, handpicked as India's Test future, could maybe give up the IPL and work on their Test game, Dhoni shot back: "Don't be jealous of the IPL." It says a lot that a man who hardly ever says an emotional thing in press conferences, no matter how dire the circumstance, loses a bit of control of his emotion when a finger is pointed at the IPL. Says a lot, not just about him but the whole Indian cricket system.

Such jealously for the IPL from the outside world sir Dhoni

 

[PokerAce]

Sidharth Monga: Spirit departs sorry India | Cricket News | England v India - Investec Test Series | ESPN Cricinfo
Such jealously for the IPL from the outside world sir Dhoni

You have to put the quote in context.

Ever since the IPL came into existence, the second anything goes wrong with Indian cricket, IPL is among the first things to be blamed ! Till now I was wondering why ppl have not blamed the IPL for this debacle. Thats just the way things are in Ind media. The second something goes wrong, someone will find a way to blame the IPL for it. Take the question for instance, - give up IPL to work on test cricket? IPL lasts a month and half, there is still plenty of time for players to work on test cricket.

Its become the norm, and the truth is just left field connections being drawn with the IPL and poor performances, are quite frankly the norm now and obviously irritating for Dhoni to answer everytime a tour goes wrong, so I can understand his frustration. If an Indian cricket sneezes some nut in the media will find a 'creative' way to blame the IPL for it.

I am not the biggest IPL fan there is, but I am also not a fan of scape goating and the IPL is the media's fav scapegoat for everything. If ppl believe what happened in the past three tests is because of IPL then thats nuts but like I said someone will find a way to blame the IPL. Never mind that well after IPL was formed Ind have had good results (WC, CT and Test #1 were all after IPL had been up and running), then IPL is conveniently forgotten. However the second something goes wrong, IPL is the first thing targeted. After Lord's IPL was no problem, but when things went down, IPL is the reason. IPL is just a month long league, which doesn't decide the fortunes of Ind cricket either in the good or bad. The WC was not due to IPL and this defeat was not due to IPL either.

The same question could be - Should Indian players give up on playing the somewhat meaningless, ODI and T20 matches that follow to go work on test cricket? Will that question be asked, of course not. The point is because of the high earnings from the IPL (Yuvraj earns more than Hazard for instance), for the media IPL has a target on its back and they cannot not blame the IPL for anything and everything. Ind cricket fans tend to over-react after bad results, are quite famous for it actually, so highlighting IPL and all the riches it brings is a way to feed off that angry reaction and attract readership. Players earn so much and yet this result, is bound to get readers in, so IPL bashing is an easy bait to get in new readers.

So this 'jealousy' comment is more for the Ind media than outside world. The IPL is full of outside world players from all over playing the IPL (except Eng because of competing leagues issue and Pak which is due to the aftermath of 2008 terror atts). The media does though keep looking for opportunities to jump at the IPL whenever possible, which is basically everytime Ind loses a match.

 

[PokerAce]

The sad thing for me is having to endure watching these guys play Johnson and co. this summer, will they even make 50?

Why is it sad? Enjoy the revenge for the 4 -0 Aussie capitulation in Ind last year. All four wins were rather comprehensive, including one by innings and 135 runs and two of the tests didn't even go to 5 days. I am sure all Aus fans will looking forward to a resounding revenge.

 

[namin96]

If the current captain/coach continue, Australia will rout us faster than how England have routed us here. Seems like the captain/coach just rub the rest of the team off in a negative fashion. This "sticking to the process" hogwash could be one of the reasons. What "process" they are following is something the world needs to know. And I am pretty sure no one else will now follow that process (considering the stubborn nature of the captain, he will continue to follow the process). As Leggie said here, he blasted his CSK players by throwing sarcastic remarks on them when they lost the IPL. Care to do that for your own players here?

I dont care if its World Cup Year. Let Dhoni continue as captain for the ODI's. This is what should happen right now (IMMEDIATELY): Sack Dhoni as captain in tests, give the captaincy to Pujara or Kohli (I know both failed this tour; but these two are India's future for sure) in tests. Sack Duncan Fletcher and bring back Lalchand Rajput (our T20 WC winning coach) or Sanjay Bangar as India's manager/coach across all formats. Strip Penney and Dawes from their roles respectively and find someone else for the job. I know doing all this during a WC year is fraught with risk. But with this current setup, we have no hopes even in the ODI format for the WC which is going to be held in Australia. We better start the sweeping changes right now and see if that helps us in salvaging the tour to Australia this year (and the WC next year).

Alright, I do agree with you on sacking Duncan ASAP however I do not agree on sacking dhoni as our test captain. Just please take a look at the three previous test defeats in this series, tell me how much of the fault is the batsmen's instead of Dhoni's. I don't understand why Dhoni gets all the blame after losses in tests. He's our best captain and he was recommended by no other player than sachin tendulkar after ganguly had resigned. Sachin obviously saw great leadership in Dhoni. Not just these three test defeats but let's go back and take a look at the previous england and Australia series whitewashes. Once again please respond to how it's Dhoni's fault when the batsmen barely put up 300 runs in a single innings in those 2011 and 2012 tours. He's leading the best bunch of players available. If everyone is going to blame him then why not just reduce team India to ms dhoni vs 11 opponents! Cricket is a team sport and it isn't fair to put all the blame on the captain himself. Now yes, I don't understand why Duncan is being supported, India needs a home coach like ganguly or Dravid who has great knowledge and experience. The current coach seems stupid and careless because he's getting paid handsomely by bcci. I seriously hope this team learns quick because when johnson, siddle, harris, Pattinson or starc bowl to them in December it's not going to be a pleasant experience am reaching 94 like today might even be too optomistic.

 

[namin96]

Lets cut some slack for both Pujara and Kohli. They are just taking over from the veterans and settling into the test team. For Pujara, he has started off well and down the line, the pressure of "not being able to convert starts to a big one" has further pulled him down to the point where he is now not even getting the starts. And for Kohli, he needed this massive "come back down to earth" moment. These guys are still the players who should serve India long. They have failed in this series, but they need to learn from it and move on. I still say that India's core of its future test batting is going to rest in the hands of Pujara, Kohli and Rahane.

The real issue is the coach. They need a wise and intellectual coach who knows whay hes doing. Alright well let's hope they have an answer to johnson's bowling in december! Even south Africa found it difficult in their home conditions against johnson.

 

[lion100lion]

 

[Satan666]

You have to put the quote in context.

Ever since the IPL came into existence, the second anything goes wrong with Indian cricket, IPL is among the first things to be blamed ! Till now I was wondering why ppl have not blamed the IPL for this debacle. Thats just the way things are in Ind media. The second something goes wrong, someone will find a way to blame the IPL for it. Take the question for instance, - give up IPL to work on test cricket? IPL lasts a month and half, there is still plenty of time for players to work on test cricket.

Its become the norm, and the truth is just left field connections being drawn with the IPL and poor performances, are quite frankly the norm now and obviously irritating for Dhoni to answer everytime a tour goes wrong, so I can understand his frustration. If an Indian cricket sneezes some nut in the media will find a 'creative' way to blame the IPL for it.

I am not the biggest IPL fan there is, but I am also not a fan of scape goating and the IPL is the media's fav scapegoat for everything. If ppl believe what happened in the past three tests is because of IPL then thats nuts but like I said someone will find a way to blame the IPL. Never mind that well after IPL was formed Ind have had good results (WC, CT and Test #1 were all after IPL had been up and running), then IPL is conveniently forgotten. However the second something goes wrong, IPL is the first thing targeted. After Lord's IPL was no problem, but when things went down, IPL is the reason. IPL is just a month long league, which doesn't decide the fortunes of Ind cricket either in the good or bad. The WC was not due to IPL and this defeat was not due to IPL either.

The same question could be - Should Indian players give up on playing the somewhat meaningless, ODI and T20 matches that follow to go work on test cricket? Will that question be asked, of course not. The point is because of the high earnings from the IPL (Yuvraj earns more than Hazard for instance), for the media IPL has a target on its back and they cannot not blame the IPL for anything and everything. Ind cricket fans tend to over-react after bad results, are quite famous for it actually, so highlighting IPL and all the riches it brings is a way to feed off that angry reaction and attract readership. Players earn so much and yet this result, is bound to get readers in, so IPL bashing is an easy bait to get in new readers.

So this 'jealousy' comment is more for the Ind media than outside world. The IPL is full of outside world players from all over playing the IPL (except Eng because of competing leagues issue and Pak which is due to the aftermath of 2008 terror atts). The media does though keep looking for opportunities to jump at the IPL whenever possible, which is basically everytime Ind loses a match.

Telling any cricketer to give up T20 leagues in order to concentrate on test cricket is considered an insult, even more so if its an Indian or West Indian. T20 leagues are where the cricketer can cash in and become a millionaire, doubt it very much an Indian cricketer is gonna give up on T20 cricket and concentrate on test cricket!

T20 cricket encourages slogging (plain and simple), in test cricket slogging will get you no where soon, this is why people would tend to blame the IPL for India's demise. However I also agree with you that the IPL is not to blame only, example the type of pitches being prepared over the years which tend to be roads. When is the last time the BCCI done anything to boost test cricket? They are to blame also. Lets face it most of India prefer the glitz and glamour of T20 cricket (The Rockstars, like Jadeja is a Sir in T20 arena) and most go by stats ( as Saisrini had mentioned in one of his posts earlier) and revenge series such as you are talking about where justifies India possibly doing bad in AUS since the Aussies were already humiliated on Indian soil by losing four tests.

 

[Satan666]

India's third-worst defeat in Tests | Cricket News | England v India - Investec Test Series | ESPN Cricinfo

36 Number of years since India lost three Test series in a row. Over the past eight months, India have been defeated in South Africa, New Zealand and now England. The last time they lost three consecutive series was between 1976-78, going down to England, Australia and then Pakistan.

These guys gotta be exhausted by now, could it be they're tired hence the poor results, their schedule is certainly overkill!

 

[grkrama]

a good read
Jarrod Kimber on MS Dhoni's Test captaincy | Cricinfo Magazine | ESPN Cricinfo