India in England Jun-Sept 2014

[Satan666]

Have you followed Ind cricket for long? When have Ind ever won Test series overseas with any great consistency. Its always been the one odd series every 4 or 5 years. Sure there was phase around 2007-2011 when things were different, but short of that, Ind have never been great travelers. Also why are u dumping the previous generations defeats on this lot. That 8-0 happened with a different team entirely.

This is a totally new side on its first tour to England. Apart from MSD and Ishant, its a first test tour to England,for everyone else. How fair is it to expect such an inexperienced side to win a series in England at the very start. MSD and Ishant (along with Bhuvi) are the only guys to do well, that shows how much experience counts. You cannot expect such inexperienced sides to win overseas series, and you have to give them time. India cannot win everything everywhere.

Similarly in Australia, where no one wins, this side will go with expectations to perform and win. That is ridiculous. When have Ind ever won in Aus? This same Eng side which won here had a torrid run in Aus. Yet the expectations will be for a win, and if that does't come ppl will ask for the captain's head. Australia are too good, you can't expect Ind to go and win there. Unreasonable expectations.

Preach it brother.

 

[PokerAce]

Preach it brother.

Didnt understand,

Also you changed your national team to India I remember it use to be England

 

[grkrama]

India Cricket News: 'People would have accepted 3-1 if there was a little more fight' | ESPN Cricinfo
ravi shastri interview.

 

[Satan666]

Didnt understand,

Also you changed your national team to India I remember it use to be England

I approved of most of the points you raise.

Never replaced India as National Team with any other, nor will I ever. Sachin Tendulkar remains my favourite player also. Go figure.

 

[PokerAce]

I approved of most of the points you raise.

Never replaced India as National Team with any other, nor will I ever. Sachin Tendulkar remains my favourite player also. Go figure.

I distinctly remember your National Team used to show England till a few days back ... odd. Also, SRT your fav player ... Really! [DOUBLEPOST=1408552671][/DOUBLEPOST]

India Cricket News: 'People would have accepted 3-1 if there was a little more fight' | ESPN Cricinfo
ravi shastri interview.

Yeah I agree that the surrender in the last test is what is hurting more than the actual result. Once that emotion passes and ppl look back on this tour dispassionately, they will find it was a not as bad as the 2011 tour.

 

[Satan666]

I distinctly remember your National Team used to show England till a few days back ... odd. Also, SRT your fav player ... Really! [DOUBLEPOST=1408552671][/DOUBLEPOST]

Yeah I agree that the surrender in the last test is what is hurting more than the actual result. Once that emotion passes and ppl look back on this tour dispassionately, they will find it was a not as bad as the 2011 tour.

Mistaken were you then.

 

[PokerAce]

Mistaken were you then.

About wht? OH u ean the National team bit, since its showing India now and u say u didn't change it, thn I guess I remember it wrong

 

[SpitfiresKent]

Calling sixes 'DLF Maximums' makes me want to kill.

I once briefly tuned into the Big Bash and they must have used the phrase ''Bunnings warehouse replay'' about 10 times.

 

[Aalay]

Have you followed Ind cricket for long? When have Ind ever won Test series overseas with any great consistency. Its always been the one odd series every 4 or 5 years. Sure there was phase around 2007-2011 when things were different, but short of that, Ind have never been great travelers. Also why are u dumping the previous generations defeats on this lot. That 8-0 happened with a different team entirely.

This is a totally new side on its first tour to England. Apart from MSD and Ishant, its a first test tour to England,for everyone else. How fair is it to expect such an inexperienced side to win a series in England at the very start. MSD and Ishant (along with Bhuvi) are the only guys to do well, that shows how much experience counts. You cannot expect such inexperienced sides to win overseas series, and you have to give them time. India cannot win everything everywhere.

Similarly in Australia, where no one wins, this side will go with expectations to perform and win. That is ridiculous. When have Ind ever won in Aus? This same Eng side which won here had a torrid run in Aus. Yet the expectations will be for a win, and if that does't come ppl will ask for the captain's head. Australia are too good, you can't expect Ind to go and win there. Unreasonable expectations.

You clearly have not read what I wrote. I said only the 2008- early 2011 period because during that period, we did not lose any test series overseas. We either won them or drew them. I am also not dumping previous team's win or loss with current team but they were also team India, not India A.

Just before us, Sri Lanka came and beat the same England side with an inexperience team. They only had Sanga, Mahela and Herath who had played tests in England before. So don't give me this experience crap. I even said in that Sri Lanka vs England thread that I expect Sri Lanka to win the series and India to lose the series. However, after the second test, I thought we might actually turn it around but we absolutely surrendered in the last 3 tests.

Who said we have to win in Australia? I have never said that we have to win everywhere. When we started touring overseas last year with South Africa tour, I said that I don't expect us to win everywhere but what I do want to see is the team to fight. They showed in South Africa and New Zeland that they can fight. However, this England tour became pretty disaster after that special Lord' win because we did not see any fight in the last 3 tests. I never expected us to beat Australia especially since I saw how well they played in last Ashes and than South Africa tour but now I am afraid that we might see another whitewash if we don't improve quickly.

 

[abhi_jacko]

... but now I am afraid that we might see another whitewash if we don't improve quickly.

And to add to this, I am even more worried that our showing in Australia is going to kill whatever chances we might have had at the World Cup. Might end up doing us more harm than good. I dont think I will be able to bear it, if we lose to Pakistan for the first time in World Cup :|

 

[PokerAce]

You clearly have not read what I wrote. I said only the 2008- early 2011 period because during that period, we did not lose any test series overseas. We either won them or drew them. I am also not dumping previous team's win or loss with current team but they were also team India, not India A.

Just before us, Sri Lanka came and beat the same England side with an inexperience team. They only had Sanga, Mahela and Herath who had played tests in England before. So don't give me this experience crap. I even said in that Sri Lanka vs England thread that I expect Sri Lanka to win the series and India to lose the series. However, after the second test, I thought we might actually turn it around but we absolutely surrendered in the last 3 tests.

Who said we have to win in Australia? I have never said that we have to win everywhere. When we started touring overseas last year with South Africa tour, I said that I don't expect us to win everywhere but what I do want to see is the team to fight. They showed in South Africa and New Zeland that they can fight. However, this England tour became pretty disaster after that special Lord' win because we did not see any fight in the last 3 tests. I never expected us to beat Australia especially since I saw how well they played in last Ashes and than South Africa tour but now I am afraid that we might see another whitewash if we don't improve quickly.

First of all don't give me this 2 test series = Win crap. If Ind had gone home upon the completion of the second test even they would have won the series. 2 test series wins are nonsense. Also SL almost lost the 1st test and got a flash in the pan win, Had Ind come back after the Lord's win in a two test series, would it make them a great side?

Not to mention that SL have two of the most experienced batsmen playing in the world, as the centre pillars of their batting. Who have India got, thats right, 2 guys on their first tour to Eng. Don't even try and tell me that doesn't make a difference.

Also get your facts right. What do you mean that only Sanga, Mahela and Herath had played in SL before. I remember, Prasanna Jayawardene, Thirimanne and Kulasekara at various points in the past playing in Eng test matches. So thats 6 players on at least a second tour to England, for a 2 test series, and compare this with India, 2 players on a second tour to England for a 5 match series !

If the gulf in the experience between the two sides doesn't become clear to you know then it never will. So pls don't give me this crap that SL had the same experience as Ind !

To sum up -

SL had many players in that team who were coming to England for the first time. SL's batting revolved around two of the most experienced players in world cricket today. SL were playing a blink and you miss it two match tour.

India had just 2 players with previous playing experience in England, Ind's batting revolved around two players who were playing test cricket in Eng for the first time, and Ind were here for a 5 match series which is as tough as it gets.

We do not know what would have happened had SL played a full 5 match series like Ind. Maybe SL too would have lost 3-1 maybe SL would have won 4-0, but we do know that
even with all this gulf in experience, had Ind been playing a two match series, they too would have won the series like SL!


Also you are contradicting yourself about expectations on the AUs tour. First you say Ind should fight, then you say - "I am afraid that we might see another whitewash". WHat does that mean. Which is it?

India can fight and it can still be a whitewash. Ind can lose 4 close test matches, and it would still be a whitewash. So you need to decide what your expectations are.

Going to Eng and winning a match, and probably India's greatest ever overseas win on the biased pitch at Lord's, is a much more concrete show of advancement. I am not saying the pitch should have been different for a second, its Eng home series and they have every right to prepare whatever pitch they want. But to then win with this side, and where they were then in terms of experience, tells me all I need to know that this team has tremendous potential.

For Aus, personally I give whatever team that goes to Aus a free clean slate. Forget the pressure, forget undoing a previous horror run, just go and play. No sword hanging over anyone's head, just pick a team that you think is India's future and send them with a free run. Once the tour ends we will evaluate. Even if its a white wash, there can be positives from it.

 

[PokerAce]

And to add to this, I am even more worried that our showing in Australia is going to kill whatever chances we might have had at the World Cup. Might end up doing us more harm than good. I dont think I will be able to bear it, if we lose to Pakistan for the first time in World Cup :|

Ye of little faith. Lose to Pakistan, what are you talking about.

 

[abhi_jacko]

The last thing we need to do is go in with the attitude that 'even if its a whitewash, we can get positives out of this'. That's the minnow mentality, and I daresay we have not reached such bad times yet

The guys will have to go into the series with self-belief and be willing to fight and win. Each batsmen needs to figure out a way to deal with short pitched deliveries because we are going to get a truckload of those. The bowlers need to know that even with the bounce on offer, the bouncer will have to be used as a surprise weapon and they will have to stick to their "plans" for majority of the series. Dhoni and the coaching staff will have to work on this aspect.

Ofcourse, it is all easier said than done. The pressure will be enormous as always because it is the Indian cricket team

PS: If you lose 4 close test matches, then that would point to temperament issues :P

 

[PokerAce]

The last thing we need to do is go in with the attitude that 'even if its a whitewash, we can get positives out of this'. That's the minnow mentality, and I daresay we have not reached such bad times yet

The guys will have to go into the series with self-belief and be willing to fight and win. Each batsmen needs to figure out a way to deal with short pitched deliveries because we are going to get a truckload of those. The bowlers need to know that even with the bounce on offer, the bouncer will have to be used as a surprise weapon and they will have to stick to their "plans" for majority of the series. Dhoni and the coaching staff will have to work on this aspect.

Ofcourse, it is all easier said than done. The pressure will be enormous as always because it is the Indian cricket team

PS: If you lose 4 close test matches, then that would point to temperament issues :P

Against Australia given our recent run of results, and given how good a side they are, I think it would be unwise to expect too much from this team. No point putting them under pressure and hang swords over their heads. Once the team is selected, they need our full backing.

Especially with the WC next, we need to be rational in our reaction. Even if its a 4-0 and even if by some miracle Ind win 4-0 ( that is not happening surely not)

BEst not to hav any expectations ... just sit back and watch 4 tests

At this early stage what would be you touring party to AUs

 

[abhi_jacko]

I misread, sorry. You are talking about fan expectations. I was actually talking about the players' expectations going into the series

I am not fully sure about the squad, but I would like the following people to NOT be in the squad: Gambhir, Rohit, Binny.
And I would like the following to make it: Mishra, Yadav. Even if it means replacing Sir. I would rather have specialists than "all-rounders".
If we want an all-rounder-type-fellow for flexibility, bring in Rishi Dhawan who actually has performed at domestic level.