India in England Jun-Sept 2014

[PokerAce]

This is the classic problem in India. The most typical excuse for an Indian fan. The moment the team begins to lose, the captain and most of all the coach is sleighed. I'm sorry, but the problems runs much deeper in regard to test cricket. I'll give you as honest an opinion as I can and as close to the truth as possible, without any bias.

First of all, India is a limited overs country. Our board's endless lust for money means that the national team is practically playing round the year and majority of it is limited overs cricket. If anyone on this board truly believes that India isn't the best limited overs team in any given conditions then they're lunatics. We've proven this around the globe and it's simply not appreciated enough. Look at England, they're almost always playing test cricket and they're still awful. How many majors have they won since the limited overs version began?

I agree with a lot of the points you have made, but India is not a limited overs country. The fans love test cricket, as much as ODIs. If anything T20 is still the most irrelevant of the three formats. I also don't think India are the best ODI team in any conditions. Sure we are generally much better as an ODI side, than a test side, but defeats in the ODI series in SA, NZ, kinda disagree with that. Yes, I do agree though as an ODI side we can compete anywhere in the world, unlike test cricket.

I agree Dhoni is not central to this crisis, but I do think the coach is. He is responsible for a lot of things that he is not helping. Kohli and Pujara got out to identical dismissal so many times and so little changed between the 1st and the 5th tests tht you do have to wonder if the coach was doing anything. Similarly the reading of the pitch in the 4th test was so atrociously wrong that it defies logic. That Cook would have also batter first after batting is hardly any consolation. Fletcher should have read that pitch right. Its well and good to talk about application, but on that pitch batting first is a poor decision.

Fletcher I am afraid has been rather ineffective.

 

[richowebbo]

I don;t think Ind will win, let alone easily. Their heads are no longer in it. They can't wait to get out of England. The core of the test teams and ODI teams are the same. Also traditionally Ind when they stuggle overseas struggle in both forms. Ind lost ODI series in SA, NZ for instance.

I think tat the Indian guys will be well up for it, and we are not very good at one day cricket. I hope Hales is given his chance.

 

[SaiSrini]

Bhuvneshwar Kumar’s father unhappy over son being gifted champagne bottle for Man of the Series
Bhuvneshwar Kumar’s father unhappy over son being gifted champagne bottle for Man of the Series - Latest Cricket News, Articles & Videos at CricketCountry.com

What do you think friends ?

Ridiculous! He is getting paid to play for India. What else does his father want? He can always give the bottle to his teammates who drink. Bhuvi's dad doesn't sound very mature enough (probably they hail from a poor family?).[DOUBLEPOST=1408478468][/DOUBLEPOST]

If Bangar's IPL stint is what is the criteria, then I think we are going about it the wrong way. We have all the boxes ticked, except away wins, and I don't see how an IPL stint is in anyway a criteria to decide if as a coach the person would deliver away test wins. I have nothing against Bangar, but am merely question the criteria on which Bangar was appointed.

Fleming would be a choice I would be quite open to. He was a fantastic batsman.

Fleming's coaching success is also entirely IPL (he has not coached a national side; probably not even a domestic side unless my info is wrong). So if you can pick Fleming, why not Bangar?

 

[SaiSrini]

Pointless. I remember when Sachin went back to play the '99 WC days after his father's passing, and got MoTM for his century the next match, he too got a Champagne. In the mourning period, in India it would not happen, but no fuss was raised. Bhuvi's dad is being a bit fussy over this. Its a common prize for whoever, they cannot change it, depending on the person's views regarding liqour, much less his dad.

______________

On a side note (as a joke obviously), wht are the views of the rest of the guys on Liquor. Were they deliberately underperforming, thinking, oh dear if we do well, we have to drink liqour

Sachin is a Mumbaikar. Bhuvi hails from Meerut. The difference is, Sachin's family have been city based for a long time. Bhuvi's family hails from a more rural area (when compared to Mumbai). So the narrow mindset comes into play for such kind of people.

 

[SaiSrini]

Well better late than never.

India news : Pujara granted permission to play in County Championship | Cricket News | England v India - Investec Test Series | ESPN Cricinfo

Happy to hear this. But not surprising for me since I did expect Pujara to be the guy to show this kind of commitment towards test cricket.

 

[Satan666]

Ridiculous! He is getting paid to play for India. What else does his father want? He can always give the bottle to his teammates who drink. Bhuvi's dad doesn't sound very mature enough (probably they hail from a poor family?).[DOUBLEPOST=1408478468][/DOUBLEPOST]

Fleming's coaching success is also entirely IPL (he has not coached a national side; probably not even a domestic side unless my info is wrong). So if you can pick Fleming, why not Bangar?

Very disrespectful, are you insinuating that all poor people are immature, last I check close to a third of the Indian population lives below the poverty line and overall the number of people living in the world are poor, so all these people are immature? No they're not but rather have good values and traditions which money cant buy. His dad has the right to be upset and the right to express same. We do not know the exact reason but it can also be that they are a religious family or maybe his father or Bhuvy himself have had a previous issue with alcohol consumption.[DOUBLEPOST=1408479174][/DOUBLEPOST]

Happy to hear this. But not surprising for me since I did expect Pujara to be the guy to show this kind of commitment towards test cricket.

Thats great news he has the right temperament for the game of test cricket. County cricket is not as competitive as it used to be but still the standard is pretty high and playing in those conditions will help him immensely.

 

[SaiSrini]

If a captain should not be blamed, why have a role of "captain" in a team? For the toss, you can send out any designated player (a player for each game). For field placings, each player stands wherever they want to in the field. After all, its the players only right?

All this is nonsense. The captain is like the head of the ship. He will be blamed (and rightly so) if the ship is sinking. He uses his management and leadership skills to keep the ship afloat. The role of the captain across all nations is the same. If people like the player who is captaining, they will obviously defend saying "A captain is as good as his team". Well, the captain also makes his team, so if the team is not good, the captain should take blame for it.[DOUBLEPOST=1408479340][/DOUBLEPOST]

Very disrespectful, are you insinuating that all poor people are immature, last I check close to a third of the Indian population lives below the poverty line and overall the number of people living in the world are poor, so all these people are immature? No they're not but rather have good values and traditions which money cant buy. His dad has the right to be upset and the right to express same. We do not know the exact reason but it can also be that they are a religious family or maybe his father or Bhuvy himself have had a previous issue with alcohol consumption.[DOUBLEPOST=1408479174][/DOUBLEPOST]

Thats great news he has the right temperament for the game of test cricket. County cricket is not as competitive as it used to be but still the standard is pretty high and playing in those conditions will help him immensely.

What I meant to say (about him hailing from a poor family), Indian members here will better understand. I never tried to insinuate that all poor people are immature.

 

[Satan666]

What I meant to say (about him hailing from a poor family), Indian members here will better understand. I never tried to insinuate that all poor people are immature.

Sorry for replying in such an emotional way. Truth is I have had my issues with substance abuse in the past. Also I reported your posts, should have discussed it with you via pm but acted immatrure, guess that means I am poor also, lolz. All good man I sure you meant well. MAybe I should be reprimanded for abusing the report system, sorry again.

 

[PokerAce]

Ridiculous! He is getting paid to play for India. What else does his father want? He can always give the bottle to his teammates who drink. Bhuvi's dad doesn't sound very mature enough (probably they hail from a poor family?).[DOUBLEPOST=1408478468][/DOUBLEPOST]

Fleming's coaching success is also entirely IPL (he has not coached a national side; probably not even a domestic side unless my info is wrong). So if you can pick Fleming, why not Bangar?

No I mean Fleming has a vast deal of Int'l experience and was one of the most tactically sound captains I remember. I know he had a poor team to captain, but within that he was super. Also he has scored runs all over and so knows what it takes. Will be a great addition as a coach even if had had no coaching experience at all. All those are above the fact that he coaches an IPL side with success.

For Bangar I am afraid you cannot say that. So If Bangar is being appointed, then his IPL coachin stint is one of the key criterias, where as for Fleming it would be an addon sort of a factor.

 

[PokerAce]

Very disrespectful, are you insinuating that all poor people are immature, last I check close to a third of the Indian population lives below the poverty line and overall the number of people living in the world are poor, so all these people are immature? No they're not but rather have good values and traditions which money cant buy. His dad has the right to be upset and the right to express same. We do not know the exact reason but it can also be that they are a religious family or maybe his father or Bhuvy himself have had a previous issue with alcohol consumption.

I don't think he means poor family means immature at all. The thing is there are two very distinct India's, the India of the cities and the India of not the big cities. Those who live in the cities, are more exposed to western culture and are okay with the idea of drinking and other things, and are generally a more open society. In rural India, or well largely in India not of the big cities, there are still families with very close mindsets, and consider things like drinking a vice and don't welcome it. Bhuvi comes from a small town so what he was saying was that since Bhuvi comes from a small town his family may have issues with alchohol. You need a deeper understanding of the way Indian society to understand this.

Even so, his dad must realise that the prize cannot be changed depending on the person's views on Alchohol. Even Pakistan players who are for the most part very deeply religious muslims and who consider Alchohol a no no, go to England and accpet the Champagne.

 

[SaiSrini]

No I mean Fleming has a vast deal of Int'l experience and was one of the most tactically sound captains I remember. I know he had a poor team to captain, but within that he was super. Also he has scored runs all over and so knows what it takes. Will be a great addition as a coach even if had had no coaching experience at all. All those are above the fact that he coaches an IPL side with success.

For Bangar I am afraid you cannot say that. So If Bangar is being appointed, then his IPL coachin stint is one of the key criterias, where as for Fleming it would be an addon sort of a factor.

Yes, Bangar is not as big a player as Fleming. But I have heard that Bangar is specializing himself in cricket coaching. Heard that he has taken courses to master himself in coaching. And obviously his stint with Punjab in the IPL has boosted his resume. Fleming would be the better choice, but there is also this idea that an Indian coach would be able to better communicate with the Indian players. There, Bangar scores.

 

[PokerAce]

Yes, Bangar is not as big a player as Fleming. But I have heard that Bangar is specializing himself in cricket coaching. Heard that he has taken courses to master himself in coaching. And obviously his stint with Punjab in the IPL has boosted his resume. Fleming would be the better choice, but there is also this idea that an Indian coach would be able to better communicate with the Indian players. There, Bangar scores.

There are coaching courses to improve you as a coach !! I had heard of such courses in Football, but not in cricket. Someone pls point Fletcher in that direction. Also personally I think in sport no amount of coaching can compensate for lack of practical know how. Fleming has a vast amount of tactical know how to draw on. For Banger 1 IPL season is too small a sample in not the hardest format of cricket.

As far as the compatibility thing goes, from the 4 foreign coaches Ind have had in recent years, I think Fleming fits the bill. There are two types of approaches one is to put your arm around the player and talk to him, while some coaches prefer the kick up the backside approach. Ind players wor better with coaches who are in the former category - both John Wright and Gary Kirsten are in that category. The one closest to the later category was Greg Chappel whose stint was a disaster. It is one thing to have poor results, but a coach who divides and disrupts the dressing room is even worse.

The Template that both Wright and Kirsten had, was that they were happy to stay in the background and work quietly. Fleming I will be more in that mold, and also an arm around the shoulder guy. I would really like that appointment if it happened, but we are just speculating. I still think bring back Kirsten, failing that Fleming is definitely worth trying out.

Also while we are speculating, in the era of specialist coaches, Ind really needs a slip catching coach.

 

[Satan666]

Having an IPL oriented coach for a test team makes no sense.

 

[PokerAce]

Having an IPL oriented coach for a test team makes no sense.

Ah the exact word I was looking for - IPL oriented coach. Agree entirely.

 

[SaiSrini]

Finding test oriented coaches, ODI oriented coaches is next to impossible to find. I dont think a coach needs to be classified like that. A successful coach is one who ensures that the players stick to their basics, keeps encouraging them to perform up to potential and lifts them whey they are down, among other things. Test based skills don't necessarily come into play here. Its mostly resource management and motivational skills at play.