India in England Jun-Sept 2014

[War]

Leeds 2002, I meant. Perth might not have been a green seamer but Australia played 4 pacers on that track.

Yea we know the story of Perth 08, although Perth during that period had flattened out (SA breaking the world record 4th innings chase later that year) - it was still a big achievement for IND to win in such a venue.

Perth back to its historical real self in 2011 when AUS played 4 quicks, we saw the difference however.

Overall i'm just cautioning the statement of 'Do not dish out green wickets to India!' - cause its not like since IND started playing normally overseas since 2002, after decades of being terrible tourist outside of Asia, that IND have won majority of series away in AUS/SA/ENG/NZ. Thus causing a paradigm shift.

Winning a handful of test in 12 years, just shows they are no longer pushovers away from home.

If ENG can get the remaining 3 tests wickets like this lord's pitch, that will remain their best way to win this series. Theoretically ENG have the better quicks, they just have to sort out their well documented issues & play better cricket.

Failure to do so, IND might very well & have their most famous overseas series win.

 

[grkrama]

Most satisfying victory for india after all those recent overseas test were they have come close to finishing it and then drifted away, full on team effort, rahane, vijay, pujara, jadeja with the bat, buvi ishant and jadeja with the ball and bat.

What really bodes well for india at this point is kohli or pujara havnt fired yet, kohli especially would be itching to get a hundred now, msd himself is due one counter attacking innings after the jadeja show, im sure he will go for it in one of the games and also like someone said before its a ten man team now with binny so getting in ashwin or rohit or aaron for next test, india will be on full strength to take it on.

 

[blockerdave]

Another question arising out of this, how in the hell is David Saker still in a job?

He has utterly ruined Steven Finn, who looked like being an excellent strike bowler for us.

Now we've seen our attack out-bowled in England by Sri Lanka and India. Broad and Anderson are experienced enough to take major responsibility for that, but seriously his position is entirely untenable.

 

[War]

I am a huge KP fan and I think he was treated disgracefully. That being said, i'm unconvinced about his captaincy. I would also like to see him playing in the county championship saying - sod T20, i want to play more tests and i am going to continue playing FC cricket. Aside from wanting to shove it in Giles Clarke's face, does he really have the appetitie to rebuild England?

I am wondering if Bell has it mentally, to be a senior player in a failing side. Last summer was really the only time he has been "the man", making the runs to hold the side together. Rather than being something he kicked on from, it seems conversely to have taken a lot out of him.

KP was on BT sport this morning speaking about his passion to play, so i think he would be. I recall even before the Ashes debacle he had hinted how longer he wanted to play for - Kevin Pietersen: 'I want to play ODIs through to the World Cup, and then Tests' | Cricinfo Magazine | ESPN Cricinfo

On Bell yea, i sort of question what kind of leadership role influence he has right now in the team. All the influence & power seems centered around the quintet of G Clarke/Flower/Moores/Cook/Prior.

 

[shravi]

Time to throw out some feel good ironies -

"India win their first World Cup in 1983. Three years later, they win their first test victory at Lord's in 1986.

India win their second World Cup in 2011 (28 years later since their last WC win). Three years later, they win their second test victory at Lord's in 2014 (again, 28 years later since their last Lord's win).

Nice irony!

i don't think you understand what irony is

 

[cricket_icon]

Hales, Robson, Ballance, Bell (C), Root, Butler, Ali, Stokes, Plunkett, Jordan, Anderson would be my 11. If Bell doesn;t perform, bring in Morgan as captain by all means.

----------



point 1) Yep. I'd open with Hales for this reason.

point 2) Yep.

point 3) Yep.

What i can;t understand is, this summer we have only been able to put together one good session, and then the next one we are awful. What is being said by Moores etc.?

Interesting team, I like Hales, hits a long ball and can be aggressive but not just yet, Cook shouldn't be dropped, give him another game and Robson has done ok so I can't imagine him being dropped. Jordan pretty much picks himself considering there really is a dirth of quality bowling in England atm.

And no idea what Moores is doing, I hate the fact that he is back in, he just isn't a good manager, I thought that would have been obvious to the ECB half a decade ago

 

[SaiSrini]

i don't think you understand what irony is

Its OK, shravi. I probably used the wrong word. Co-incidence, maybe?

Was just so excited at that point of time.

 

[blockerdave]

Interesting team, I like Hales, hits a long ball and can be aggressive but not just yet, Cook shouldn't be dropped, give him another game and Robson has done ok so I can't imagine him being dropped. Jordan pretty much picks himself considering there really is a dirth of quality bowling in England atm.

And no idea what Moores is doing, I hate the fact that he is back in, he just isn't a good manager, I thought that would have been obvious to the ECB half a decade ago

Moores is in, and Cook will stay, because they won't challenge Flower/Clarke and they sign up to no KP.

Any captain or coach would ask for the best players, and right now that would include KP but he won't be picked so right away you're limited to captain or coach that agree with that policy. I expect some of the coaching candidates either declined an interview, or fell down at some point over that issue, and having Flower so powerful behind the scenes.

When Hussain was made captain, the first thing he said was he wanted Caddick and Tufnell, both of whom were previously discarded for being "difficult". Nobody can do the same now with KP.

 

[aditya123]

Yea we know the story of Perth 08, although Perth during that period had flattened out (SA breaking the world record 4th innings chase later that year) - it was still a big achievement for IND to win in such a venue.

Perth back to its historical real self in 2011 when AUS played 4 quicks, we saw the difference however.

Overall i'm just cautioning the statement of 'Do not dish out green wickets to India!' - cause its not like since IND started playing normally overseas since 2002, after decades of being terrible tourist outside of Asia, that IND have won majority of series away in AUS/SA/ENG/NZ. Thus causing a paradigm shift.

Winning a handful of test in 12 years, just shows they are no longer pushovers away from home.

If ENG can get the remaining 3 tests wickets like this lord's pitch, that will remain their best way to win this series. Theoretically ENG have the better quicks, they just have to sort out their well documented issues & play better cricket.

Failure to do so, IND might very well & have their most famous overseas series win.

When did I ever say that we won every series outside of home? I just pointed out a trend there which suggests that most of India`s famous wins overseas have come in helpful conditions except the one at Adelaide in 2003. All the other venues had help for the bowlers and the Indian attack became a potent force. The Indian batting during the period (2002-2011) and now had enough quality to fight it out and stay in the game. Even at Rawalpindi in 2004 when we won that famous series in Pakistan, the home side had prepared a green seamer which India capitalized on.

We may not win every game on a green wicket but are more likely to battle it out on an even keel when there is help for our bowlers. Its simple. Our bowlers do not have express pace or mystery and thus need help from the pitches.

Coming back to this series, England should be worried on three fronts. India have underutilized the Binny slot. Secondly, Pujara and Kohli are yet to start firing big here. Shami, in that second innings looked to be getting back in rhythm and Ishant was yet again in one of his outstanding spells. His problem has never been with his peaks but his performances following the peak. I would still like Dhoni to play Ashwin in place of Binny. Ashwin is as good a batsman as Binny and a far better bowler. It would help us have enough insurance for both scenarios (batting first or second).

 

[asprin]

Speaking of green tops backfiring on the home teams, I too do not believe in that theory. India, at best, is an above average bowling unit. Bhuvi seems to be the only threat but his window of opportunity is too small. If that passes, he will need to wait for the new ball again.

Even if we manage to match the opposition in bowling, the batting tends to be significantly less effective than the opposition's. So it may be that the bowlers will do well, but that will be nullified by our inability to put up decent scores and put pressure on the opposition.

 

[grkrama]

^I think you can give it a day before switching on aditya123_Mode

 

[asprin]

I can't help it. I'm one of the team's harshest critic

 

[richowebbo]

Interesting team, I like Hales, hits a long ball and can be aggressive but not just yet, Cook shouldn't be dropped, give him another game and Robson has done ok so I can't imagine him being dropped. Jordan pretty much picks himself considering there really is a dirth of quality bowling in England atm.

And no idea what Moores is doing, I hate the fact that he is back in, he just isn't a good manager, I thought that would have been obvious to the ECB half a decade ago

Yeah I like Hales a lot. He could be our Warner. Cook has had too long not scoring runs. He needs to take some time off, go back to county cricket for the summer, score lots of runs and come back as an opener. Hales would be flexible, so could come in at 3 or 4 if Cook opens again.

I was shocked when Moores was given the job. He was crap first time, and will be again now!

 

[shravi]

great post-match interview by cook. he said all the right things. he's a very likeable guy. for his sake, i hope he can turn it around, preferably after this series. but unfortunately, i don't think he'll last beyond this series if he doesn't turn it around.

like stinky, i think his batting has come under too much scrutiny. he is a good player going through a rough patch. i think he'll start scoring runs soon enough. his captaincy is another issue.

agree with all the posts calling for KP's re-selection. it looked silly at the time, and even more mind-boggling now.

 

[angryangy]

The thing about a green wicket is just that if the pitch is tough for batsmen, you minimise the chances of a draw, which means both teams are more likely to win.