India Team Discussion

[LiveLoveABD]

What a load of turd and what mindless arguments.

I wanted to keep my mouth shut because of the tone of discussion that was chosen for but I think the disrespect is getting out of hand and I will have to resort to the same tone.

1) A coach/support staff cannot do horse poo if the players are not in the pomp of their skill delivery, mental fortitude and situational awareness. The Aussie team of the 00 is the greatest cricket team I have seen and Buchanan had very little impact on them. I could have coached that team and they would still get the results they did. Honestly, the sort of pool they had back then, it was a team that coached itself because they took such pride in their own performance and set themselves such amazing standards. India probably has a larger pool minus the consistency in selection.

2) Virat Kohli has done a fair bit for this generation of cricketers but it's very apparent that he lacks consistency and player management skills and it has not improved. He is also not tactically sound and because you get time in test cricket to make up ground for errors, he is able to keep coming back. Self belief has never been scarce in Kohli's DNA. The issues surrounding Kohli are crunch moment decisions which lack balance. Shastri himself is a bombastic baboon and instead of rendering balance to the already volatile Kohli, he adds fuel. If anyone thinks MSD is there in that squad without Kohli's agreement or insistence then they are smoking the finest stuff from the Netherlands.

3) There could be 8 IPL captains in the Indian team but one needs to understand the dynamic between someone like Kohli/Dhoni and Kohli/Rohit. Dhoni is looked at by both as the person who helped them establish their careers and supported them when they were in need for it. Kohli gets a lot of slack but I don't think if Rohit was the white ball captain he would go ask Kohli for help on matters which may seem stupid to the other. They both have no reservations of coming across as that to MSD.

If India win this World Cup, it will be based on the skill and execution of the cricket they play. The support staff is just that. They support the players off the field in whatever capacity they can. If they are missing their families, they can't replace them but can act as some sort of comfort having experienced times when families were not allowed. (Just as an example)

If anyone feels the presence of Dhoni means an automatic increase in the trophy cabinet then they are foolish and if someone feels that he is on a tourist visa who won't have any role to play then they are also foolish.

As for all those fixing allegations- Respect your players. I don't think they are worthy enough to be called heroes because I feel that is only reserved for those on the border but these guys provide us some of the happiest moments in our lifetimes and the least we can do is be mild mannered to them by maintaining a basic level of respect.

 

[icyman]

1) A coach/support staff cannot do horse poo if the players are not in the pomp of their skill delivery, mental fortitude and situational awareness. The Aussie team of the 00 is the greatest cricket team I have seen and Buchanan had very little impact on them. I could have coached that team and they would still get the results they did. Honestly, the sort of pool they had back then, it was a team that coached itself because they took such pride in their own performance and set themselves such amazing standards. India probably has a larger pool minus the consistency in selection

India has a larger pool, minus the consistency in performance, not selection. To your point about a coach not able to do much- I agree. However, at this level, what you need is a person who can talk the team out of tough situation ,strategize and lead them towards victory. That, in essence, is the role of a coach. Batting, Bowling, Fielding coaches will do their biding in trying to improvize the skills of the players.

Now pray tell, what is it that a mentor will do here? Will he do anything different from the coach? If so, spell out what exactly. Plus, MSD has just retired from the game. It isn't like the team is failing so badly that he is required to come and help them.

2) Virat Kohli has done a fair bit for this generation of cricketers but it's very apparent that he lacks consistency and player management skills and it has not improved. He is also not tactically sound and because you get time in test cricket to make up ground for errors, he is able to keep coming back. Self belief has never been scarce in Kohli's DNA. The issues surrounding Kohli are crunch moment decisions which lack balance. Shastri himself is a bombastic baboon and instead of rendering balance to the already volatile Kohli, he adds fuel. If anyone thinks MSD is there in that squad without Kohli's agreement or insistence then they are smoking the finest stuff from the Netherlands

Well noted! Everyone knew that right from the very beginning. Were steps being taken to cull this sort of behaviour? Wasn't Kohli an understudy to MSD? Was MSD able to influence Kohli's behaviour? NO! If he couldn't do it the, there's no guarantee he can do so during the WT20.

Shastri-Again, wasn;t the BCCI aware of him?

3) There could be 8 IPL captains in the Indian team but one needs to understand the dynamic between someone like Kohli/Dhoni and Kohli/Rohit. Dhoni is looked at by both as the person who helped them establish their careers and supported them when they were in need for it. Kohli gets a lot of slack but I don't think if Rohit was the white ball captain he would go ask Kohli for help on matters which may seem stupid to the other. They both have no reservations of coming across as that to MSD.

Then why not go and get a figure like Dev/Gavaskar? The players would respect them more. MSD has recently retired, is active on the IPL circuit and has been known to favour certain individuals during his captaincy. Hence, I vouch for a cooling period of a few years wherein the existing crop of players he has played with, no longer play.

If India win this World Cup, it will be based on the skill and execution of the cricket they play. The support staff is just that. They support the players off the field in whatever capacity they can. If they are missing their families, they can't replace them but can act as some sort of comfort having experienced times when families were not allowed. (Just as an example)

India needs a SPORTS PSYCOLOGIST to get over the finishing line. We have been saying this for years. Even under MSD"s captaincy we havent been able to do much since the ICC CT 2013.

As for all those fixing allegations- Respect your players.

Read properly. I never said MSD was a fxer. Not my problem if you choose to pick things that suit you and comment thereupon.

I wanted to keep my mouth shut because of the tone of discussion that was chosen for but I think the disrespect is getting out of hand and I will have to resort to the same tone.

There's no disrespect. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. MSD does not deserve to be a mentor in my opinion and I believe I have reiterated my reasons for the same in this forum. If you still feel its disrespect, I cannot help you.

 

[icyman]

Now this makes it interesting. Could be the reason why Kohli called MSD to mentor???

Rohit Sharma could be white-ball skipper after T20 World Cup | Cricket News - Times of India

Cricket News: Virat Kohli, who currently leads the team across all formats and is India’s most successful captain ever, is learned to have taken the call to share l

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

 

[NILAYSHAH60]

Now this makes it interesting. Could be the reason why Kohli called MSD to mentor???

Rohit Sharma could be white-ball skipper after T20 World Cup | Cricket News - Times of India

Cricket News: Virat Kohli, who currently leads the team across all formats and is India’s most successful captain ever, is learned to have taken the call to share l

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

I don't see that happening tbh. These news have surfaced many times only to disappear in the vapour.

 

[NILAYSHAH60]

India has a larger pool, minus the consistency in performance, not selection.

And who is consistently backed in the current squad?

Was MSD able to influence Kohli's behaviour? NO!

There was an influence in on-field decisions at times. Very much happens with Rahane and Rohit as well. But MSD was given a bigger stature by Kohli.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

India has a larger pool, minus the consistency in performance, not selection. To your point about a coach not able to do much- I agree. However, at this level, what you need is a person who can talk the team out of tough situation ,strategize and lead them towards victory. That, in essence, is the role of a coach. Batting, Bowling, Fielding coaches will do their biding in trying to improvize the skills of the players.

Now pray tell, what is it that a mentor will do here? Will he do anything different from the coach? If so, spell out what exactly. Plus, MSD has just retired from the game. It isn't like the team is failing so badly that he is required to come and help them.


Well noted! Everyone knew that right from the very beginning. Were steps being taken to cull this sort of behaviour? Wasn't Kohli an understudy to MSD? Was MSD able to influence Kohli's behaviour? NO! If he couldn't do it the, there's no guarantee he can do so during the WT20.

Shastri-Again, wasn;t the BCCI aware of him?


Then why not go and get a figure like Dev/Gavaskar? The players would respect them more. MSD has recently retired, is active on the IPL circuit and has been known to favour certain individuals during his captaincy. Hence, I vouch for a cooling period of a few years wherein the existing crop of players he has played with, no longer play.


India needs a SPORTS PSYCOLOGIST to get over the finishing line. We have been saying this for years. Even under MSD"s captaincy we havent been able to do much since the ICC CT 2013.


Read properly. I never said MSD was a fxer. Not my problem if you choose to pick things that suit you and comment thereupon.


There's no disrespect. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. MSD does not deserve to be a mentor in my opinion and I believe I have reiterated my reasons for the same in this forum. If you still feel its disrespect, I cannot help you.

The inconsistency in performance stems from the inconsistency in selection as a lot of posters here would also denote. What happened prior to the WC of 2019 was shambolic and I am the last person to go watch Rayudu bat but anyone who earns an India cap deserves a lot of respect and the way he was treated was mind numbing. Who is to tell where Karun Nair would end up as a cricketer if he wasn't treated how he was. Hell, the current World Cup squad has players who could have been terminally destroyed if not for their mental fortitude ie Pant, Rahul, Ashwin etc.

Dhoni is there to simply control impetuous and juvenile decisions which has been a clear cut DNA of our team in big ticket tournaments. He knows how to look at problems not in a cluster but to isolate each one and solve them one by one without getting impatient and rush things. I have never believed in 'god' like statures for sportsman but if I am to compare MS to some character then it would be the character Damon plays in the movie 'the martian.' He identifies major issues and creates plans to simplify them and he does them one by one without losing his patience to get to the end goal.

Kohli's behaviour is a double edged sword and the one thing I love about our cricket board is that they allow cricketers to be themselves. I have no issue with that not just in cricket but in life. The mistake the BCCI has made is just giving him a completely free hand. He's just taken that too far and I for one am fed up of his dismissive nature of the umpires and the media who honestly are nowhere near as expressive as they were back in the day and they still get under his skin. But this same stubborn attitude of just never accepting his mistake is definitely a contributing factor in triumphs which nobody gave India a chance for.

You might feel a cooling period is needed, I don't. Shastri, Dev and Gavaskar played at a time with 5% of the scrutiny in the world today and MSD is everything a modern day guide must have in simply knowing how to deal with not just failure but also success. He has an innate ability to take emotions out of highly charged situations and just looking at the facts and basing decisions based on the facts than the emotions. Shastri would probably drown himself in alcohol if we have a dismal/triumphant day. He's the kind of person who would do wonders when you are down and out but I don't think he has the personality for a situation that is suited to a team on a high or stagnated and this white ball side has stagnated.

I know who I am choosing for cricket advise when it comes to psychology. I have not seen a cricket mind like MS since Imran Khan in terms of being the complete package. Shane Warne might be the greatest tactical genius when it comes to on field decisions, but does he or did he have the personality to man manage cricketers and humans and at the same time be a tactical genius? As a package, the two names I have mentioned are just that, geniuses. You cannot quantify their output or quality or value. THAT is their genius.

The direction in which this discussion was heading very much insinuated malpractice at your end and I will call a spade a spade. Just like it's not your problem if I dissected the discussion as that, it isn't mine if you feel you didn't because the articles very much suggest so. You can choose the passive aggressive line if you like, but it would be much more appreciated if you are direct. It gets more respect on a forum. And I am not trying to ride the holy grail here with a halo on my head. It doesn't make you come across as disrespectful or personal to me, I am just saying we can be civil with our cricketers. That's all.

 

[wasteyouryouth]

I think Dhoni's mentor role is probably some kind of BCCI no-show job. He'll probably contribute between nothing and very little.

 

[Till Valhalla]

If given chance some posters will **** MSD

 

[icyman]

And who is consistently backed in the current squad?

Ravindra Jadeja

There was an influence in on-field decisions at times. Very much happens with Rahane and Rohit as well. But MSD was given a bigger stature by Kohli.

Yes, but MSD has moved on from the game. If Virat cannot manage the on-field decisions in MS' abscence, he is perhaps better off giving up the captaincy.

Dhoni is there to simply control impetuous and juvenile decisions which has been a clear cut DNA of our team in big ticket tournaments. He knows how to look at problems not in a cluster but to isolate each one and solve them one by one without getting impatient and rush things.

It was Dhoni's DNA, not the DNA of the current or any of the other captains. Ganguly, Dravid, Azhar had different views and the way the way they managed the team was admirable. Since CWC 2015, I have not seen Dhoni being capable of solving many problems within the team. Rather, point to be noted here is that he, himself was the problem/ root of all evil for India.

You may be a Dhoni fan, you may defend him all you want, but the bottom line is that he will be a major influence when it comes to selection and that will be detrimental to the team.

 

[NILAYSHAH60]

Ravindra Jadeja

Name Jadeja's obvious replacement then we would talk about it.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

Name Jadeja's obvious replacement then we would talk about it.

And Jadeja was not a mainstay until his 2019 WC heroics. He was dropped for good from the white ball leg after the CT as was Ashwin.

You simply cannot replace Jadeja and Pandya (when bowling). We have tried our hand with the likes of Krunal, Axar and Shankar at the international level and we have seen the gap in terms of quality. It's like saying you can replace Stokes with a Sam Curran and Sam Curran has much more pedigree than Vijay Shankar.

Post automatically merged: Sep 14, 2021

Ravindra Jadeja


Yes, but MSD has moved on from the game. If Virat cannot manage the on-field decisions in MS' abscence, he is perhaps better off giving up the captaincy.


It was Dhoni's DNA, not the DNA of the current or any of the other captains. Ganguly, Dravid, Azhar had different views and the way the way they managed the team was admirable. Since CWC 2015, I have not seen Dhoni being capable of solving many problems within the team. Rather, point to be noted here is that he, himself was the problem/ root of all evil for India.

You may be a Dhoni fan, you may defend him all you want, but the bottom line is that he will be a major influence when it comes to selection and that will be detrimental to the team.

Long may it last. I am a Dhoni fan and you are not. We will see now how the situation unfolds.

 

[NILAYSHAH60]

And Jadeja was not a mainstay until his 2019 WC heroics. He was dropped for good from the white ball leg after the CT as was Ashwin.

You simply cannot replace Jadeja and Pandya (when bowling). We have tried our hand with the likes of Krunal, Axar and Shankar at the international level and we have seen the gap in terms of quality. It's like saying you can replace Stokes with a Sam Curran and Sam Curran has much more pedigree than Vijay Shankar.

And that is what is the case with us. We are over expecting from Jadeja the batsman. He has done a great job playing his role for the side. I mean it's not his problem if our skipper wants him over Ashwin. We don't have a better all-rounder than Jadeja. Washington is more like-for-like for Ashwin than Jadeja. I don't get the criticism for having him in the side. I can clearly vouch for that Ashwin is a better bowler and he must play over Jadeja if we only need to have one spinner. But I disagree with the fact that there are better players than Jadeja for the role he is playing in the side.

This is a beautiful write-up from Australian writer Jarrod Kimber. If there is anyone who wants to be critical of his role in this India side then do have a read here-

Sir Ravi J: The quality No. 7 memelords never thought he could be

The allrounder has evolved into a consistent scorer of Test runs, a run-out specialist, and is possibly the second-best spinner in the format

www.espncricinfo.com

 

[Targaryen]

Was going through some of the posts here and decided to dive into the discussion about MSD.

Firstly, MSD is picked by BCCI and I'm absolutely not sure if Kohli & Shastri were consulted. By 'consulted', I mean Kohli & Shastri were never informed about this plan. It was just management decision. What makes this thing more believable is the reaction from Shastri after the announcement. His use of words were completely genuine and he seemed clueless and happy at the same time. This is not the way one would react if they knew about something beforehand.

Secondly, Dhoni's inclusion will not be of any help. Though I know he can do wonders when it comes to team management, but still having Kohli & Shastri at the top makes things difficult for him. The approach of this duo is different from that of Dhoni. And we have seen how Kohli panics and takes mindless decision at crucial situation in IPL. But do you think he listens to anybody? I know we have a top captain of billion dollar tournament in Rohit Sharma who can give his input. But Kohli is arrogant on the field and won't listen to anyone. To back this argument, RCB had 4 top captains who managed their national team very well. Watson, ABD, McCullum & Finch. And though IPL is different ball game, my point about Kohli that he doesn't listen to anyone whatsoever is arguable. Having those 4 captains/former captains in the squad but still he lost very badly in those seasons. Dhoni is just there on the request of BCCI. So don't expect any good result. Also his captaincy has been a little worrisome in last couple of season in IPL. I know they made it to playoffs but still it wasn't a easy way for CSK which was actually easy few years ago.

Thirdly, about the cooling off period. 3 yrs cooling period for the likes of Dravid and Dhoni was picked as mentor out of blue. Hey, this is BCCI. They make the rules and they have the authority to break them. What's the big deal? And also Dhoni having influence on team selection is a bullshit. Primarily because, arrogant Kohli and Shastri won't let their authority go to someone else, and secondly Dhoni was picked after team selection and announcement was made togather. It was not like Dhoni was sitting there or had a say while team was being picked. Dhoni's role as mentor will be more of a Motivator, nothing more than that.

To sum things up, Dhoni's addition shouldn't mean that we are guaranteed a WT20 trophy or shouldn't rule out 'completely' either. He doesn't have any influence nor will influence the likes of Kohli & Shastri in decision making. And this seems to be a one time thing. If at all Dravid takes over the coach position from Shastri, Dhoni is not at all required or won't be approached either. Dhoni has a traditional approach which is not at all useful for current generation players and Dravid knows what he is doing.

Finally, it's not a good thing to call out names of Gurunath M and say Dhoni backed him for whatsoever reasons. Since Gurunath was found guilty of match fixing and you accuse Dhoni's of supporting him indirectly means that you are accusing Dhoni of it. Denying it or wording it differently doesn't mean you said it in other sense or meaning.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

Boy, there must be quite a lot of useless people on that MI roster that are mentors and directors and what not for ages now. It's just fashionable to talk about Dhoni. Been so since his debut. It could be his technique, his haircut, his rifts, climate change, traffic in Mumbai etc.

 

[icyman]

Name Jadeja's obvious replacement then we would talk about it.

Jadeja is being played as an all-rounder, wherein he clearly isn' one. His batting is over-hyped. Point out one instance where his batting led the team to victory? Ashwin is a far better spinner than him.

Boy, there must be quite a lot of useless people on that MI roster that are mentors and directors and what not for ages now. It's just fashionable to talk about Dhoni.

Boy, MI is a domestic setup. I couldn't care less what happens/whom they appoint. My focus is on India and the kind of staff they appoint.