India Team Discussion

[NILAYSHAH60]

U forgot india england 2020 t20 series
Also u forgot all ipls in which he opened and carried team to qualifiers

Man you didn't get the point! He hasn't opened for India regularly and there's no need for India to open with Kohli. We have a plethora of openers around!

 

[Bevab]

Compare the strike rates of Kishan and Rahul, you will have a winner. Rahul is a stat-padder, more bothered about his personal records rather than the team's benefit. Point out even a single match that KLR won for India single-handedly? His stat=-padding has costed us in the past, costs us in terms of run scoring. If KLR can bat freely (say like Kishan) there's no reason why he shouldnt be in the side.

My concern right now- the team has done very well in his abscnece. Adding him to the squad (basically, they will play him in the XI)- this will mean the team has to adapt yet again. Now, compare this with the like of Australia or England, would they do so? Just cause KLR scored runs about a year ago?



KLR, even without the burden of captaincy is a pain to watch at times. I certainly do not wish to tune in to a match, where he keeps tapping the ball around and bulding himself in. For me, the new brand of cricket is all about attack. If KLR cannot, then he needs to go. Add to that, him and Kohli are guaranteed selections in the side. This,mark my words, will result in losses during the Asia Cup. I just hope it doesnt cost us the WT20 ,like the CWC2019 (that was Dhoni though)

Iyer- I agree, has fallen behind. I was quite surprising though that he is the leading run scorer in T20i for India. I still think Iyer has a mega role to play in the near future. However, he will, for the time being have to make do with ODIs. Once Kohli moves on, Iyer would probably end up being a mainstay in the team.

Sure, let us compare their strike-rates.

Ishan Kishan - T20I/IPL - 131.16/132.34
KL Rahul - T20I/IPL - 142.49/135.38

The winner seems to be the bloke you hate here. But why stop there?

Comparing their last three seasons of IPL...

Year	Ishan Kishan	KL Rahul
2020	145.76	129.34
2021	133.89	138.80
2022	120.11	135.38

There is one season where Kishan was better and there is the caveat that he played for arguably the greatest T20 domestic XI ever assembled in two of these three seasons. The season where he has had to play as one of the primary scorers, he faltered terribly succumbing to the pressure of consistency and pricetag. Rahul on the other hand has been the metronome of consistency and has done it despite being the captain, main man and the big money player in two different sides including a very dysfunctional one. In terms of total runs scored it isn't even a remotely fair contest. While I admit that there have been some innings where Rahul has played a bit too passively for my liking (I've also called him out multiple times for it whilst others have been kind to him) he still has multiple games where he has been very good. It is easy to hate on him given his own self-absorbed attitude and his general demeanour but calling him someone who is incapable of attacking is a complete joke.

It is also so funny that you're referring to this aggressive era under Dravid as a platform where Rahul does not fit when he has played exactly... 2 T20I games under his tenure at the very start? The team has done well in his absence? We've faced two quality sides in this year and one had a new captain who with multiple players not in form whilst the other tied their series with us at our own home. I don't understand this rationale of excluding someone who could work from a side because the team is currently 'doing well'. If I had the opportunity to get prime Kapil Dev into this side I would do it without second thought and not rule him out because the team did good without him, so that means the team will only play worse with him in it. I don't even get this rationale and I doubt you would apply it to anyone else not named Rahul.

Kishan can bat freely? Have you not watched the last two games where he has a grand total of one boundary from 23 deliveries? Kishan is a player you can easily tie down and prevent from scoring boundaries and even rotating strike. As much as I don't like Rahul's passiveness it is a lot more difficult to tie him down. He will get you the odd boundary or rotate strike to keep some form of run-rate going. And he has demonstrated on a consistent basis in the past that he can bat aggressively on multiple times. I don't understand why you choose to ignore all of it. With the current competition for the opening slot it is very easy to just tell him that unless he plays aggressively he isn't playing too.

As for a single match that he has won for India, does him scoring nearly 62% of the team's total in a chase against a first choice England XI with no one else even striking above 110 count? I mean at this point it is fine to admit that you do not want him in the side because you hate him as that is far more rational than trying to invent reasons out of nowhere with no basis. Plenty of us Indian fans have our own personal biases that have influenced our XIs all the time.

 

[Bevab]

I actually do not mind SKY opening. He did a decent job in WI.

@NILAYSHAH60 VK opening too might not be a bad idea. In fact, this was something that the ex-management under Shastri had been toying with. If VK needs more deliveries to settle (maybe try him for a game or two during the Asia Cup), maybe Rohit will have to go for his shot from the onset(something he has been doing). Remember, VK did open for RCB during the IPL as well.

Are you seriously suggesting batting our current best T20 batter out of position in a position where we have multiple options? From a position that we have historically and still are struggling to fill? Just to keep Rahul out?

And are you seriously suggesting batting our former best T20I batter out of position when he is in the most wretched form of his life and looks mentally shot? Really? And you're okay with our current captain being forced to play even more aggressively to accomodate him? All the while you're also okay with him eating deliveries up whilst criticizing Rahul for him doing the same?!?! The same Rahul who has been the most prolific Indian batter in the last four IPL seasons?! At this point it is perfectly fine to admit that you have a thing against Rahul man his attitude clearly doesn't have a lot of fans so you will be in good company.

 

[Bevab]

India always like to have all rounders in team as in CWC 2011
They are repeating their same ancient strategy

We had two genuine all-rounders in Yuvraj and Yusuf back then. The latter was replaced by Raina later on anyways. The rest of the batters we had could all roll their arms over but they are hardly all-rounder category. There is nothing ancient about a strategy that still works in any case as every other side is playing with a minimum of two all-rounders in their top six these days.

U forgot india england 2020 t20 series
Also u forgot all ipls in which he opened and carried team to qualifiers

Remind me of these IPLs barring 2016 where Kohli opened and 'carried' the team to qualifiers? I've been the biggest proponent of the 'Kohli must open in T20Is' for a long time but even I can recognize that the ship has sailed when the bloke doesn't even deserve to be in the first team now.

 

[NILAYSHAH60]

@Bevab tone down a bit man! He wasn't trolling Rahul just stating his opinion that was influenced by what most of people around him would tend to believe. And I believe it's okay to have a different opinion on a public forum.

Why do we always have a tendency to give something back to someone if he/she is not speaking on the same level? We can still find a middle ground even after having difference of opinion IMO.

 

[Bevab]

@Bevab tone down a bit man! He wasn't trolling Rahul just stating his opinion that was influenced by what most of people around him would tend to believe. And I believe it's okay to have a different opinion on a public forum.

Why do we always have a tendency to give something back to someone if he/she is not speaking on the same level? We can still find a middle ground even after having difference of opinion IMO.

I do agree that the tone of my posts were a bit condescending. My apologies for that.

Still feel like there is no basis in these Rahul must not play arguments as I've shown. Especially when the alternatives are what has been suggested.

 

[NILAYSHAH60]

Still feel like there is no basis in these Rahul must not play arguments as I've shown. Especially when the alternatives are what has been suggested.

I agree! Also I have stated my reason in this very thread that why I would want KLR & Rohit to open irrespective of the format they are playing.

 

[Bigby Wolf]

What do you guys make of Avesh Khan in the T20 setup?

Is he right man to get selected? He has done well with the new ball in the last few IPL and so far with his India stint but goes for plenty in death and even in the middle overs.

So with the current squad, Bhuvi to open the bowling , Arshdeep a sure short starter now in the XI with no Bumrah and even Harshal Patel.

So if Hardik is third pace bowling option and India goes with Jadeja and other spinner Ash/Bishoni.

Probable XI in Asia Cup;

Rohit
Rahul
Kohli
SKY
Pant
Hardik
Jadeja
Bhuvi
Arshdeep
Chahal
Avesh/Ashwin/Bishoni.

So four specialist bowlers and two all round options.

 

[asprin]

Meanwhile, in another universe C.Pujara scored a quickfire century. Petition to have him included in the T20 WC squad?

 

[Bigby Wolf]

 

[AJ MODS]

Avesh/Ashwin/Bishoni.

I would like to see Hooda/Ashwin
resulting big batting unit, no pressure at top order

 

[NILAYSHAH60]

Meanwhile, in another universe C.Pujara scored a quickfire century. Petition to have him included in the T20 WC squad?

And then constantly criticise him for following an archaic brand of Cricket.

 

[Paranoid Kendroid]

I can finally post this now. Strongest India XI for T20 World Cup:

Prithvi Shaw
Rahul Tripathi
Rajat Patidar
Nitish Rana
Shivam Dube
Jitesh Sharma
Rahul Tewatia
Umesh Yadav
Kuldeep Yadav
Khaleel Ahmed
Umran Malik

Bench: Mohsin Khan, Jagadeesha Suchith, Sanju Samson, Harshal Patel
Traveling Reserves: Rishabh Pant, Washington Sundar, T Natarajan

The cup will be ours!​

Krunal Pandya enters into the mix if one more traveling reserve is allowed.

 

[Bevab]

I remember posting a team that I would like to see a few months ago in this thread for the 2020 World Cup. Since then, circumstances have changed and if you were asking me to pick a team right now, this is what I would opt for

• A top three of Rohit, Rahul and Kohli. Now I still believe that the most optimal usage of Kohli would be to let him open as this is where players of his style thrive in T20s but given that he hasn't been comfortable there recently and with Rohit's impressive international record as an opener alongside his flourishing partnership with Rahul, I shall probably go with the same. Just don't include Dhawan again though, he is a quality option to have as a backup but shouldn't be ahead of Rahul by any measure.
• At four I really wanted to see Pant as if he could translate even half of what he's done in the IPL, India will have a match-winner on their hands. Alas, he has failed to do so and his IPL captain has been arguably more consistent. Iyer thrives on attacking spinners but is a bit suspect to real pace and this is something he will need to work on if he is to become a permanent member in the T20I team.
• Number five should be Hardik Pandya for one simple reason. There is arguably no one better at scoring quickly other than the above mentioned Iyer versus spin. To waste a player of his talent down the order at seven or even six wouldn't be ideal. His T20 batting average is close to 28 which shows that if he is allowed to work on his batting rather being forced to operate as the fifth bowler, we might very well have a truly well balanced all-rounder.
• At six, India have recently experimented with Pandey. Now I have nothing against him and I praise his adaptability in playing this role as on paper he seems ill-suited to it. When he has a hitter like Hardik to help him, his more steady role at six rotating the strike and scoring a few boundaries shall certainly help and he can be a valuable asset for scoring from the more unplayable deliveries. However, when the team is in a chase that requires going at over 10 rpo, he isn't the ideal option and so unless he shows a regular ability to be aggressive, I would like to see Karthik back into the lineup. Dropping him from the T20I side for poor ODI form is silly when he has been the best Indian finisher in the IPL for the past two seasons. His range of shots seems to have increased and he does seem to be well suited to rotate the strike quickly if required. In addition, he can relieve Rahul of keeping duties.
• While I wanted Krunal at seven, Jadeja's 2019 form makes him difficult to leave out and as shown in the NZ series, he seems to have improved massively in bowling economically and his fielding is worth it too. On the other hand, I'm really unsure about his batting as it is one-dimensional and he can be quite easily restricted.
• My controversial choice for eight is Washington Sundar. He wouldn't necessarily be my first choice either as I believe Ashwin is a definite upgrade on him with the ball but the latter last played a T20I in 2017 and doesn't seem to be anywhere in the frame for a T20I recall even if he is one of the leading spinners we have. Sundar at eight offers batting depth that our tail desperately needs and this is a bloke who is good enough to bat in the top six regularly for Tamil Nadu. My main reason for including him is the tactical variety he offers with the ball as a powerplay spinner. Sundar can bowl economical spells in the first ten overs and is a valuable opening option against someone like Warner or Munro.
• The secondary pacer in this team is another controversial choice but I've been backing him for a long time, even before his T20I exploits and that is Saini. I've always maintained that you need one bowler who can bowl serious pace on Australian pitches and Saini fits the bill and he also has a good yorker. He is a little rough around the edges but a few more T20I games can easily sort that out. I do not like Shami as a T20 bowler as I believe he is a bit too expensive but he is a better alternative compared to the likes of Khaleel and Thakur.
• Bumrah and Chahal are pretty much locks in this bowling unit for obvious reasons.
• So who are the unlucky ones to miss out here? I really like Bhuvi but the 2016-17 version of him increasingly seems to be a mirage from another time as his pace and consistency have dropped significantly. If he can recapture his form and fitness though, he would walk straight back into the lineup most likely for Sundar (although that does weaken the batting, which means that the only reason to do it is if he truly returns to his best). Deepak Chahar needs to improve on his pace slightly more but he is another player I wouldn't mind taking as a backup if Bhuvi fails in his fitness bid. Kuldeep, Krunal, Dube, Dhawan and Pant all miss out on a first team role due to the presence of better alternatives for now but all of them have a chance to return to the playing XI if they can show more consistency and in case of any injury woes.
• As for Dhoni, he is well past his peak and never truly brought his IPL form in Indian colours. Barring an injury crisis affecting all three keeping options, I would never go back to him as it would be a significant step backward.

So here is a blast from the past regarding the side I wanted in the Australian T20 World Cup. The earlier version I’m alluding to had Pant in for Shreyas at four and Bhuvi instead of Sundar. A bit interesting that we still have the same top three in contention despite their own issues with form and fitness in recent times and that much of the overall XI appears to be the same (with one huge exception in the bowling department ) where as the bench is what has changed a lot.

We’ve found a better, more T20-oriented version of Shreyas in SKY who is equally good at taking on spinners and is a much better option versus pace as I’ve called out Shreyas for even then (praise the heavens for him). Pant still hasn’t brought his IPL form to the international stage (the reverse might have happened funnily enough) Axar has become a Jadeja-lite for the better. Bhuvi still has the same questions hanging over his head and Sundar seems to have disappeared from first team contention owing to injuries and we’ve had another blast from the past with Ashwin fulfilling his role these days (note that I wanted Ashwin instead of Sundar even back then as I believed him to be the superior bowler ). Saini was a wildcard pick even back then and has sadly not kicked on with Siraj leapfrogging him in RCB colours and then Indian ones later on. Chahal’s no longer a lock in the T20I side as he seems to blow hot and cold too frequently and is now being challenged by Bishnoi rightfully. Krunal and Dube are on the redemption path in new IPL sides but a recall seems distant for them. Kuldeep on the other hand has done the same and is now back in the mix. We seem to have moved on from Thakur with the white ball (finally?) and Khaleel hasn’t been anywhere near the team either although he was quality for Delhi last season. Strange that they’re in the same IPL team now too. Wanted Pandey gone back then too and he’s done nothing since then that warrants an IPL spot let alone an Indian one.

The sad thing here is that we could have had a settled middle order with Hardik and DK if they were properly backed and managed. Even back then in 2019-20 it was clear that they were good options at five and six. Even before his reinvention and rejuvenation I pointed out how much batting potential Hardik had and while he’s become more cautious versus spin his ability to play pace has markedly improved alongside pacing an innings. We’ve only had Jadeja and Axar improve in their batting abilities since then to add further depth to it. What also worries me is that we’ve only tried two pacers with the sort of pace that Saini promised in Malik and Siraj since then. Neither of them are likely to be selected for the WC due to form and we instead seem content to go with a Harshal or Arshdeep who can offer us control (allegedly) but much lesser pace instead.

This does show that despite all of the competition that has come and gone by (remember Venky Iyer?) the Indian side has always had a strong spine of players to play and back which they’ve not done as much as it should have been done in the guise of rotation and experimentation.

 

[asprin]

With the amount of hate Rohit is getting regarding his captaincy and attitude on the field, ex-captain Kohli must be heaving a sigh of relief to not be on the firing line.