India Team Discussion

[SaiSrini]

I'd say India finished 4th - the South Africa that played New Zealand would beat the India that played Australia. Sure the result of their pool match went the other way, but on the basis of their semi-final performance - only one team went down fighting.

I wish they'd do a real third place playoff though.

Well since there was no playoff for third place, India would be third purely because he beat South Africa fair and square in the group stages. And we just didn't beat them close there - we smashed them by 130 odd runs. You cannot just compare the close nature of the results in the respective matches to rate teams. A better criterion would be head to head, the absence of which should force you to resort to other ways of comparison.

The only team that we have not been able to get past at all has been Australia. I wish we faced NZ atleast once this tournament to see where he stood, but we have stood above all other teams.

 

[grkrama]

I'd say India finished 4th - the South Africa that played New Zealand would beat the India that played Australia. Sure the result of their pool match went the other way, but on the basis of their semi-final performance - only one team went down fighting.

ya lets just give ind's ranking place and all by the last 25 overs of the tournament in a match that was toast already, ya i would have liked to see us going down a bit more swinging but we were gong down nonetheless.The problem was dhoni calculates attack to pin point but regular loss of wkts at other end meant he needs to recaliberating it that until it was left skewed and looked foolish, also we did look pretty good the first 15 overs though s couple of chances went our way. '

there is certainly a gap between IND and aus especially in their home conditions but i would reckon we can take on SA there now.

Also SA have been most inconsistent especially the SA who chase, using intensity as measure which is a highly variable thing between and even inside a match doesnt stand, so cant really argue for places.

 

[themusketeer]

Definitely , India will be on the 3rd place without any arguments.

 

[MattW]

ya lets just give ind's ranking place and all by the last 25 overs of the tournament in a match that was toast already

You can do anything in the last 25 overs of a 50 over match.

Net run rate was good enough to decide who made it through to the finals rather than head to head:

 

[grkrama]

You can do anything in the last 25 overs of a 50 over match.

nobody is saying you cant do anything in last 25 overs but you mean to say that 775 overs of excellence before in that tournament should be discounted for the last 25 overs. Nrr is the next big joke after rankings. It will vary with opponent and match situations etc doesn't even remotely show you a good team, same SA had great NR scoring 400 of wi still lost with huge margin against ind as evident SRL bombed in SF to give that NR to SA.

We did well period we did better in those conditions than any other team apart from hosts. Ya we lost to Aus barrier but atleast we did as well as overseas team do in subcontinent.
We take the bronze!

 

[MattW]

nobody is saying you cant do anything in last 25 overs but you mean to say that 775 overs of excellence before in that tournament should be discounted for the last 25 overs

That's what a knockout stage means.

In those knockout matches, South Africa performed better than India. They got within 2 balls of the final against the other undefeated team at that point. That counts for a lot.

 

[shravi]

sorry mattw, that is a silly argument. nobody is 3rd and nobody is 4th. both india and south africa went out at the same stage. knockout matches are one-offs so that hypothetical india-south africa knockout match could have gone any which way. it doesn't matter how close each match was. there are just too many variables.

what we do know is that india faced south africa earlier in the tournament and kicked their ass.

as for net run rate... NRR is a farce. points and head to head should be the only considerations for me.

 

[themusketeer]

It doesnt matter how they performed against NZ in SF. What matters is how they performed Head to Head against India. We were simply better than them.
You never know what would have happened if we played against NZ.

We will take the bronze.

 

[greymatter776]

Trying to forget the failure but the social networking sites doesn't allow me to.I find it rather strange that people blame Dhoni for the failure despite leading India to the semis and trying his best.

 

[shravi]

Trying to forget the failure but the social networking sites doesn't allow me to.I find it rather strange that people blame Dhoni for the failure despite leading India to the semis and trying his best.

i don't blame dhoni. but i was disappointed that he did not try to go for the chase. i did not see the difference between losing by 175 runs or 100 runs. it was a semi-final. i understand that he didn't have enough support, and there was too much to do, but i would have liked for him to have gone down fighting. we would have lost either way, so i didn't see the point of saving face.

 

[grkrama]

They got within 2 balls of the final against the other undefeated team at that point.

totally different attacks while NZ attack is on par with aus pace attack, SA have had more trouble against our attack with spinners which is why you cant just rate teams based on how they perform against another team. either give another SA ind clash or go by what has already happened.

 

[grkrama]

i did not see the difference between losing by 175 runs or 100 runs.

exactly to top it off the guy himself has said before it doesn't matter how you die you jsut when prev asked about eng and aus tour last time.should have jsut gone bonkers after facing a few deliveries, rahane while really good technical batsman is no raina or kohli to accelerate at top speed when needed, may be dhoni thought he will come good and waited but in waste.

 

[icyman]

Shastri needs to be relieved (on a more lighter note, I missed the guy a lot in the commentary box esp. his now famous cliched lines - also Shastri in the comm box is considered a lucky mascot for India in ICC tournaments). But truth be said, Shastri brought a lot of strength and competitiveness to this Indian side since he took over as team director. BCCI need to find someone similar for the head coach role. I dont think a change is needed for Bangar, Sridhar and Arun's spots for now.

Glad you brought that one up. Shastri in the commentary box would have been better and would have added a newer dimension there. The lucky aspect- you are one of the few guys I have seen mention it.

As for the Head Coach, why not promote Sanjay Bangar? I mean he has done a good job with India as Asst.Coach and has turned round the fortunes of KXIP as Head Coach. What the BCCI needs to get in on an urgent basis is a batting coach for those gruelling tours of SAF, NZL & AUS and also a good (well-known) bowling coach. Although Bharat Arun has done a very good job, we still need to have one more fellow in there.

I wish they'd do a real third place playoff though.

A 3rd place may just be a consolation. However, with the rules being changed for the World Cup in 2019, this system can be tied to an automatic qualification for the Top 4 irrespective of where they end up in the ICC rankings.

 

[SaiSrini]

i don't blame dhoni. but i was disappointed that he did not try to go for the chase. i did not see the difference between losing by 175 runs or 100 runs. it was a semi-final. i understand that he didn't have enough support, and there was too much to do, but i would have liked for him to have gone down fighting. we would have lost either way, so i didn't see the point of saving face.

I agree with this. If we had lost by 150 runs, so be it. Dhoni should have gone for it much early, with this being a WC semifinal (a loss packs you back home). But for me, the turning point was Dhawan's dismissal. Rohit and Dhawan started toying with the Aussie attack and had a great 10 overs of the Powerplay. Dhawan could have buckled down and kept the scoreboard ticking in the mid overs. He choose another extravagant aerial shot after the Powerplay and duly perished. If he had buckled down and kept ticking, could have set a massive platform for the rest.

 

[Aalay]

Yes, very strange post by Matt there to say South Africa were better than India. I would have taken that had they beat us in the group stages but it wasn't even a close contest. We just crushed them in that game and they didn't even show any fight. It is silly to look at NRR because obviously South Africa will have better NRR than India. This is due to their back to back scores of 400 and winning by big margins against WI and Ireland. You also need to look at the fact that India batted second against UAE, Ireland and Zimbabwe. We could have easily scored around 350-400 against both UAE and Ireland because we were batting at a pretty good rate in both of those game. Yes South Africa played a better semi final but that doesn't change the fact that we did better than them in the competition.