India tour of New Zealand - Jan to Feb 2014

[War]

The fact Jadeja has 3 FC triples, its know wonder Dhoni can't find proper bolwers @ international level. That for me is clear indication of the poor standard of FC bowling in India (mainly the quicks), his batting isn't that good.

As other have mentioned, Ashwin's batting looks far more solid @ international level & I think its possible he has the ability to bat higher in a similar vain to Ravi Shastri.

 

[SaiSrini]

Ashwin generally looks a solid batsman (more so than Jadeja), but his bowling's just not up to snuff outside of India. A radical solution would be to try to convert Ashwin to a batsman who bowls - ala Steve Smith. He can then come in at six (it's not like Rohit Sharma is ever going to work outside of India), Dhoni at seven, Jadeja at eight, plus you get the occasional wicket out of him (provided that his captain gets used to him not being a strike bowler).

I think Jadeja needs a change of approach for test batting. I don't think he doesn't have the skill. But he needs to put more thought into his batting. You get the feeling that he treats himself as a bowler who bats a bit, but he needs to get over that thought when he's batting and apply himself as a batsman.

Jadeja doesn't have confidence in his ability as a test batsman because he knows his technique can get his triple tons in FC, but not at international level. That's why he hits out in an attempt to score as much runs as possible. Same with Dhoni, who has finally understood that he can maximize his returns in test cricket by being aggressive and try to score as much as he can.

The standard of bowling in FC cricket has been bumped drastically, if India need to start finding solutions to their perennial problems. But this has been suggested decades back. With the BCCI filled with money mongers, suggestions like this never get implemented.

 

[harishankar]

If Ashwin could maintain a batting average of 35-40 or more, then he could bat in the top six as a genuine batsman and we could still play 4 quicks; with Ashwin doing a holding job as a 5th bowler in overseas tours.

As for Jadeja, like many others, his batting doesn't inspire confidence at the Test level. Ashwin shows much better technique to defend and play a tight game when needed.

 

[asprin]

If Ashwin could maintain a batting average of 35-40 or more

This would be asking for too much. Remember, his role in the team is that of a bowler who can bat. 35-40 are averages of pure batsman. I would get that down to maybe 25-30.

 

[grkrama]

If Ashwin could maintain a batting average of 35-40 or more, then he could bat in the top six as a genuine batsman and we could still play 4 quicks; with Ashwin doing a holding job as a 5th bowler in overseas tours.

He sure has talent but he is good year away from that, he will have to work on that, show some solid knocks in FC and then only he can become a solid alrounder, in jadeja's case its more easier he just has to sort his temperament, get a water tight defense going for him and he should be alright to be an allrounder.

Ashwin can definitely become one but he has to work on it, before contesting for that spot.

 

[SaiSrini]

This would be asking for too much. Remember, his role in the team is that of a bowler who can bat. 35-40 are averages of pure batsman. I would get that down to maybe 25-30.

The discussion is about giving him a change of role considering his batting talent. The objective is to try and find a better balance in the team.

 

[Aalay]

Ashwin's main job is bowling not batting. I don't care if he averages 35 with the bat, he does not take any wickets outside the subcontinent. If he starts taking wickets, than you can have him in the line-up. Currently he is clearly not doing it and Ojha needs to be given a chance overseas. We need a spinner who can take wickets, not just hold an end up. If you need an all-rounder, call up Rishi Dhawan. That guy was the highest wicket taker in the ranji trophy last year. He can fill up that bowling all rounder role overseas.

 

[asprin]

The discussion is about giving him a change of role considering his batting talent. The objective is to try and find a better balance in the team.

The problem is that the top-middle order is jammed packed and the only positions available are 6/7/8. In that sense, he will have to be played as a bowling batsman rather than the other way around.

 

[harishankar]

Ashwin's main job is bowling not batting. I don't care if he averages 35 with the bat, he does not take any wickets outside the subcontinent. If he starts taking wickets, than you can have him in the line-up. Currently he is clearly not doing it and Ojha needs to be given a chance overseas. We need a spinner who can take wickets, not just hold an end up. If you need an all-rounder, call up Rishi Dhawan. That guy was the highest wicket taker in the ranji trophy last year. He can fill up that bowling all rounder role overseas.

Finger spinners will always have a tough time in overseas conditions. If you want a spinner who can take wickets in all conditions, we need to give a talented wrist spinner a long and patient run in International cricket. I don't know why the selectors aren't considering this option.

In the meantime, if Ashwin can do an all rounder's job better than Jadeja, it will give us the opportunity to play 4 seamers.

R.Ashwin already has 2 international Test centuries for God's sake. I think his potential as a batting all rounder is quite cemented at this stage with an average close to 40 in 19 Test matches. Let us not label cricketers.

As for the batting order being chock full, there are a couple of batsmen who are still not quite cemented at this level, especially overseas. At least Shikar Dhawan and Rohit Sharma come to mind.

 

[Aalay]

In the meantime, if Ashwin can do an all rounder's job better than Jadeja, it will give us the opportunity to play 4 seamers.

That's the problem though. Ashwin is not doing an all-rounder's job. His batting is decent but his bowling is not outside the subcontinent. His fielding is horrible as well. If you are looking for a bowling all-rounder in overseas condition, why not go for a seam bowling all-rounder. I know it's a bit early for Rishi Dhawan to come in but we have to try to see if it's working or not. This way we can still play 4 seamers and Ojha as a spinner.

R.Ashwin already has 2 international Test centuries for God's sake. I think his potential as a batting all rounder is quite cemented at this stage with an average close to 40 in 19 Test matches. Let us not label cricketers.

I have never labelled him as an all-rounder. I even said in my last post that his main job is bowling and he should focus on that. His batting is a bonus, we didn't bring Ashwin in the team because of his batting. I don't care if he has two centuries, he needs to take wickets to be in the team because that is his primary job.

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If Ashwin starts taking wickets than nobody can question his position in the team but he is currently not taking wickets and that is why he is out of the team.

 

[harishankar]

That's the problem though. Ashwin is not doing an all-rounder's job. His batting is decent but his bowling is not outside the subcontinent. His fielding is horrible as well. If you are looking for a bowling all-rounder in overseas condition, why not go for a seam bowling all-rounder. I know it's a bit early for Rishi Dhawan to come in but we have to try to see if it's working or not. This way we can still play 4 seamers and Ojha as a spinner.



I have never labelled him as an all-rounder. I even said in my last post that his main job is bowling and he should focus on that. His batting is a bonus, we didn't bring Ashwin in the team because of his batting. I don't care if he has two centuries, he needs to take wickets to be in the team because that is his primary job.

You labelled him by stating that his main job is bowling. I happen to disagree. We need to re-look the traditional roles of players if we want our team's performances to improve overseas.

On the present evidence, his batting is quite tight and suited for overseas conditions. Thinking outside the box, if he has learnt anything from his recent bowling outside the subcontinent, he could be an effective all rounder.

All I'm saying is that, as a finger spinner, his role will always be more a containing role than a wicket taking one in green tops. We need a wrist spinner who gives the ball a real tweak if we want a spinner who can be effective in all conditions. I doubt if Ojha can be more effective than Ashwin overseas, even though he is a left-arm spinner.

 

[Aalay]

You labelled him by stating that his main job is bowling. I happen to disagree. We need to re-look the traditional roles of players if we want our team's performances to improve overseas.

What is his job in the team than?

If our spinners are going wicketless in every overseas match that we play, I don't see how that will improve our team's performance.

I doubt if Ojha can be more effective than Ashwin overseas, even though he is a left-arm spinner.

We need to give him a chance first to clear that DOUBT.

 

[SaiSrini]

Ashwin's main job is bowling not batting. I don't care if he averages 35 with the bat, he does not take any wickets outside the subcontinent. If he starts taking wickets, than you can have him in the line-up. Currently he is clearly not doing it and Ojha needs to be given a chance overseas. We need a spinner who can take wickets, not just hold an end up. If you need an all-rounder, call up Rishi Dhawan. That guy was the highest wicket taker in the ranji trophy last year. He can fill up that bowling all rounder role overseas.

Harish is discussing about changing Ashwin's main job from 'bowling' to 'batting'. Clearly his batting abilities give the feeling that we can try him as a specialist batsman who can also bowl (overseas). This means, whatever success he gets as a bowler overseas will be a bonus for India. And his fielding is bad, but he is turning out to be a safe bet now in slips and we have all seen in recent series how mediocre our slip catching has been.

 

[grkrama]

So this discussion Boils down to this its either Ashwin replacing Jadeja as ASP to ASP or replacing nohit(highly unlikely) as ASP to Batsman and in both cases opening a bowling slot in the team.

also if contesting with jadeja i find jadeja a better fielder, also better at containing which is what people expect of ASP, the prob with Ashwin is not just picking wickets, when he is not picking wickets he goes to defenswive mode, what happens then is he starts leaking more runs in def mode.
The only person i wont mind him replacing is Rohit, I will find it very unlikely to happen.

 

[harishankar]

^^ Precisely, Saisrini. I think the role of a finger spinner (left or right arm) is much less in overseas conditions and we need 4 seamers to do the job.

So if we cannot get a reliable seam bowling all rounder, we have to stick with Ashwin or Jadeja as a batting all rounder in those conditions.

To be honest, I would prefer an attacking wrist spinner and three seamers but it appears that cupboard is empty at the moment (anybody following domestic cricket keenly may correct me here if there are any promising upcoming wrist spinners around)

The sad thing about all this is that, nothing will change in Indian cricket since the team management thinks everything is hunky dory.