Indian tour of South Africa, December-January 2010/11

[StinkyBoHoon]

war, you really need to get in to your head that aus 1999-2005 is not the benchmark of everything.

Australia is bouncey, australia have more than 2 bowlers (by the way, if your criteria is pace why does warne's absence even matter?) sehwag scored well there. it's like you think in binary, either on or off. you have no room for degrees of anything. you even admit yourself only one opener did well against mcgrath, so surely the opposite is true, that mcgrath's absence actually makes for a better picture of a players ability in australia because Mcgrath was too good.

look, sehwag is not brilliant against green top bowlers, very few batsmen are. But to call him a flat track bully and THEN to go on about how it means he's rubbish is just stupid. sehwag would walk into any team in the world right now, and would have since 2007. He manufactures results on non-result pitches, has set up a number of run chases with outrageous batting in the second innings, has dominated spinners in the spinniest of conditions. too write him off as FTB is just being stupid.

and check. hayden home = 57 with 21 tons. away avg = 41 with 8 tons. avg under 35 in NZ, Eng and SA. all the countries you earlier specified were benchmarks of pace bowling.

hussey home = 62.7 with 10 tons. away avg = 39 with 3 tons. avg under 35 in NZ and Eng though has managed 38 in SA (but never a 100) actually, apart from the 1 ton he's scored in england. His only other 2 away 100s come in india and bangladesh. the man as you can see is a mountain of a batsman, and has adaptablitity that some indian batsmen can only dream of.

 

[Rohit Doshi]

I do not care what stupid people think or tell.

India by atleast drawing the series (Almost won) have showed that they are and they can be number 1.

I do agree England on the other hand recently have beaten Australia currently and Africa year back in their home. They are definitely in the race but remember with India having to prove number 1 have to win series away, England are too should win a series in India. Flat track or not, It's an away series for you and you should win it.

People say India should do this India should do that, please guys mind your business. To India to prove number 1 they should win all away series and for other countries nothing that sort?

Africa,Australia,England or any other 4 countries must also win in India to prove their worth.

 

[pcfan123]

If UDRS was implemented this might have been an entirely different series. South Africa dominated the 1st and were robbed in the 2nd due to shoddy umpiring.

Easily a better team than India

 

[Rohit Doshi]

I agree Mark, but the same thing happened in Australia during the Sydney match. With hard work, luck also needs to play it's role.

South Africa are a better unit with Steyn and Kallis in side(just like the importance of Zak in Indian team)

If you see, 1st test was actually won by Steyn and Kallis. Second, Steyn did his best but all batsman failed.

This test, Steyn 5er and Kallis 2 innings 2 centuries.

If they get injured then the South African bowling was near to crap as Indians.

Morne tried hard in getting wickets but he did not seem that dangerous. His 2-3 over spells were good but he gets bogged down quickly.

Harris is ████ and should never get a chance back in team. Tsotesobe did his part. Just the 5th test and he can improve definitely

 

[sohum]

If UDRS was implemented this might have been an entirely different series. South Africa dominated the 1st and were robbed in the 2nd due to shoddy umpiring.

Easily a better team than India

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South Africa, India and England tied up right now as the best Test side in the world, imo. I think England is actually a shade ahead of the other 2 after their systematic destruction of Australia.

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I agree Mark, but the same thing happened in Australia during the Sydney match. With hard work, luck also needs to play it's role.

Trying to get Mark to say something good about India is like trying to get War to admit he's wrong about anything. It's an exercise in futility so you can give up while you still have your sanity.

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On to the ODIs. I wish they'd just scrapped them and played another Test match!

 

[Rohit Doshi]

India VS England this year and we will kill them for sure. Need a good bowler to support Zak though. Sree was good this series. Ishant needs to be thrown out. Singh back in form.(Batting + Bowling)

Tendulakar as always.

Dhoni in press conference said, for him 2 big tours are coming back to back.

England and Australia(Both Away) and we need to get our selves up and raise to that level to dominate them.

I hope, Seamers would have done something in 2nd innings, we would have won the match and mouths would have been shut

 

[Dare]

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South Africa, India and England tied up right now as the best Test side in the world, imo. I think England is actually a shade ahead of the other 2 after their systematic destruction of Australia.

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Trying to get Mark to say something good about India is like trying to get War to admit he's wrong about anything. It's an exercise in futility so you can give up while you still have your sanity.

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On to the ODIs. I wish they'd just scrapped them and played another Test match!

You can laugh all you want but no UDRS might have just saved India. South Africa got way more ████ calls.

 

[sohum]

You can laugh all you want but no UDRS might have just saved India. South Africa got way more ████ calls.

You can attempt to asterisk this series draw as much as you want but I'll continue to .

The fact that the same people who thought Saffers would whitewash are now clutching at UDRS straws shows that they can't admit when they're wrong.

 

[Rohit Doshi]

You can attempt to asterisk this series draw as much as you want but I'll continue to .

The fact that the same people who thought Saffers would whitewash are now clutching at UDRS straws shows that they can't admit when they're wrong.

Perfect.

Also Dhoni is yet to lose a test series

 

[Dare]

You can attempt to asterisk this series draw as much as you want but I'll continue to .

A draw is a draw but to totally brush aside that the UDRS could have made a difference for South Africa especially in that 2nd test is pure bull ████. A blind man could tell that they got the short end when it came to decisions int his series.
They also have their own fielding to blame in this last test, unusually for a South African team.

The fact that the same people who thought Saffers would whitewash are now clutching at UDRS straws shows that they can't admit when they're wrong.

Get the facts straight, I voted for South Africa 2-1 win.

 

[sohum]

Yes, South Africa didn't get the best of the decisions. But UDRS wasn't used. And guess what? India has in the past been on the wrong end of the stick as well. If you're going to put an asterisk next to this series draw based on UDRS, then you have to place an asterisk next to the series result of every single series that was played without UDRS.

 

[Adarsh]

Come on guys, we're better than trolls.

I just wish India had sealed the deal yesterday. When Boucher had come in, if only they'd surrounded him and got Harbhajan to bowl at him and who knows , it might have been a different story. In the end I think 1-1 is a good reflection of the series. India took 20 wickets in 2 games out of 3, which is a good sign given that the seamers still didn't do a great job as a pack. Harbhajan was a real star. You look around the world and you think how many spinners are better than him and there aren't many.

 

[Dare]

Yes, South Africa didn't get the best of the decisions. But UDRS wasn't used. And guess what? India has in the past been on the wrong end of the stick as well. If you're going to put an asterisk next to this series draw based on UDRS, then you have to place an asterisk next to the series result of every single series that was played without UDRS.

What does the past have to do with this series? And who is saying to put an asterisk beside this series. I am just saying that it could have played out differently if the system was implemented.
Nobody is saying put it in the archive so every time this series comes up we can talk about it.

Perhaps India has its on board to blame for those past loses? For not wanting to use the UDRS.

Come on guys, we're better than trolls.

Dont refer to your self as a troll, your better then that.

Harbhajan was a real star. You look around the world and you think how many spinners are better than him and there aren't many.

Only reason people think many are better then him is because he has to bowl on the ████ Indian wickets tor 3/4 of the year. Its hard to be a good spinner there.

Oh and the fact that every Indian fan is a spin expert and just bashes Harbhajan for all its worth and when someone comes on and sees comments like that you actually think o my this guys is ████.

 

[War]

war, you really need to get in to your head that aus 1999-2005 is not the benchmark of everything.

Australia is bouncey, australia have more than 2 bowlers (by the way, if your criteria is pace why does warne's absence even matter?) sehwag scored well there. it's like you think in binary, either on or off. you have no room for degrees of anything. you even admit yourself only one opener did well against mcgrath, so surely the opposite is true, that mcgrath's absence actually makes for a better picture of a players ability in australia because Mcgrath was too good.

95-2006/07 correction.

Plus i never suggested that period is benchmark for everything. Its just the benchmark for rating opposition performances againts AUS.

My criteria is pace & its not just McGrath & Warne that was absent. Gillespie also played that entire series half fit. When Dizzy was fully fiy in the return series in IND 2004 he was all over the IND batsmen. So the 3 main bowlers of AUS dominant era didn't play or was injured for the only home series in 11 years of dominace on the flattest home series pitches in AUS of the last 20 years & Sehwag scored runs - that is no coincidence sir.

Especially when you consider how in the return series in 2004 - McGrath & co hand in in check & the recent 2010 series in IND where a solid AUS attack kept him quiet via exposing certain technical faults.

If he was so good againts good AUS bowling. He should have dominated the AUS 04 & 2010 attacks like he did in 03/04. But he didn't & those bowlers got the better of him.

Not sure what you are trying to say with the Vaughan point by saying "the opposite is true". But if you see it any other way that the fact that in 11 years of dominace every opener who came to AUS when McWarne where present failed/struggled expect for one unbelievable performance by Vaughan in 2002/03, shows quite clearly how opening in AUS againts them was supremely difficult. Then their is nothing more to argue on this specific point.

look, sehwag is not brilliant against green top bowlers, very few batsmen are. But to call him a flat track bully and THEN to go on about how it means he's rubbish is just stupid. sehwag would walk into any team in the world right now, and would have since 2007. He manufactures results on non-result pitches, has set up a number of run chases with outrageous batting in the second innings, has dominated spinners in the spinniest of conditions. too write him off as FTB is just being stupid.

Nah truly great batsmen have been able to score runs competently on roads & greentop/bouncy decks vs quality pace attacks. Thats what separates the Lara's, Tendy's, Richards, Sobers, Gavaskar, G Chappell, Greendige, Dravid, Gooch, Ponting, Kallis, Sangakkara etc etc etc from your Sehwag type batsman in test history.

Sure he would walk into any team in world right now. Although if he continues to struggle in 2011 againts good/very English, Windies, AUS pace attacks. One might have to rethink that.

Scoring runs againts quality spin on turners is great. But i have noticed a very common trend in the 2000s era in which ALOT of batsmen have somehow found it easier to score runs vs quality spinners on turners - but yet struggle alot to score runs againts quality pacers on greentops/bouncy cdecks. Which most people agreed with when i made this thread:

http://www.planetcricket.org/forums/cricket-discussion/what-more-difficult-facing-quality-pace-attack-facing-quality-spin-attack-64314.html

Overall this should tell you why scoring runs againts the quality pace is much more significant factor i judging a batsman ability.

and check. hayden home = 57 with 21 tons. away avg = 41 with 8 tons. avg under 35 in NZ, Eng and SA. all the countries you earlier specified were benchmarks of pace bowling.

Ok and did you understand my synopsis on how Hayden's career evolved in which i explained how after he corrected his faults post Ashes 2005. He handled pretty much all quality new-ball bowling home & away competently?

hussey home = 62.7 with 10 tons. away avg = 39 with 3 tons. avg under 35 in NZ and Eng though has managed 38 in SA (but never a 100) actually, apart from the 1 ton he's scored in england. His only other 2 away 100s come in india and bangladesh. the man as you can see is a mountain of a batsman, and has adaptablitity that some indian batsmen can only dream of.

Ok & like Hayden above its all about understanding how Hussey's career evolved. Outside of Hussey form patch between SA 2009-IND 2010, Hussey in general has been very solid home & way especially againts quality pace as the recent Ashes has shown

Hayden nor Hussey @ their peaks have never had any series where they averaged sub 25 againts no pace attacks home or away like Sehwag has done a few times in his career already.

 

[relentless_rock]

@ Dare
In Zaheer's lbw case (lbw not given) Technology was inconclusive even in replays to rule in favour or against whether there was edge or not.

DeVilliers and Boucher got bad calls, but PLEASE DO NOT FORGET, highest run-scorer for SA in 2nd innings, Prince should have been out for 0, but not given. Morkel too was given 2 lives, by a no-ball call which wasn't.


SO sorry to dissapoint some sore fans, that even in test match where India seemed to have all the rub of the green (with Kallis unfortunate dismissal), the UDRS would have potentially overturned 3 decisions each for both teams.
So you too may need to get your facts right!!