Indian tour of South Africa, December-January 2010/11

[StinkyBoHoon]

Firstly, So from 1946-2002 (when the 1st ranking system was used). Do you have evidence that that in those 56 years that not having a ranking system that their wasn't competition or that all those yearly tours was meaningless??

Plus again you dont need a ICC ranking system to tell you who is # 1. As i showed before erudite cricket fans, cricket pundits, cricket teams etc during the course of a few years of tours will realise who are the best two teams around & a battle (unofficial # 1) series match-up would be played to decide who is the best team in the world. Thats what happened for series such as:

- Ashes 1958
- ENG vs WI 1963
- WI vs AUS 1965
- WI vs AUS 1968/69
- Ashes 1972
- WI vs AUS 1979/80
- AUS vs WI 90/91 & 92/93
- WI vs PAK 92/93
- WI vs AUS 94/95 & 96/97
- AUS vs SA 2001/02


Secondly i'm not proposing anything to do as you claimed to..you're proposing some silly airy fairy system in which India don't get to be no.1 because England had an injury crisis.

Im proposing cricket has no ranking system.

Thirdly your hypotetical scenario of ENG becomig # 1 wouldn't occur if Ponting was to get injured anyway in the current Ashes. So that doesn't make any sense.

Fourthy i know alot of people outside of planetcricket, other cricketchat website who dont chat cricket online who dont believe like me that a fully fit McGrath would have prevented ENG from winning the 2005 Ashes.

They like me draw comparison from AUS tour to IND 2001. Where a similar situation happened. AUS bats where exposed to quality spin & McGrath's presence didn't help. In 2005 where AUS bats where exposed to quality pace bowling, we dont believe McGrath presence would have saved AUS.

So even if you want to call me God, they wont have to appoint me to head any ranking system. Since again i saw cricket doesn't need one.

Finally. Good observation on points allocated in ranking system for a drawn tests, for a team that was outplayed.

No, I don't have evidence. What I do see though is there is quite a lot of worry about the future of test cricket, with certain series' not being well attended. They didn't need a test championship for those years either, but the ICC are pretty keen to have one now because they're worried about the game.

and as for your de facto no.1, well, you're the one (and others) than can be found in other threads saying "there is no no.1 right now." so who is this no.1 that pundits and fans have identified. It's been 2 years since the aussies lost to India away and then south africa at home, so there has been 2 years since Australia definitively were not no.1 so that's a couple of years of touring.


and how does the hypothetical system not make sense?

Imagine that Englad were no.2, close to India, and a 3-1 ashes win would put them no.1. but oh no, ponting and hussey get injured, and all of a sudden because australia are clearly not as good without them, they get less points allocated for a win, and can't close the gap. It's a hypothetical situation, but it could definitely occurr.

what about the other way, as I understand, a 3-0 win over india will not close the gap enough for SA to go no.1. but say steyn, morkel and Kallis get injured, should SA then get more points? Seems inconsistent to work it one way and not the other.


If you want to argue that cricket doesn't need a ranking then argue that, argue it from the point of meaningless context or what not. I don't necessarily agree but I'll see where you're coming from. It is an arguable case. Don't invent some weird theory that involves planetcricket, pundits and er i dunno who else you had in mind, sitting round and speculating on the effect of injuries and then allocating ranking points based on that. It is not arguable.

Can you name one other sport that has a ranking or points system like that? no, because it's terrible. regardless of what you think about mcgrath, plenty of people DO think he had an impact and that's the point. not that you have a number of people that agree with you, that there is disagreement. (I think his absence had an impact, so even if you get a million people to tell me he didn't, my existence makes this true) The reason there is disagreement is it is not fact, it is conjecture and utterly valueless in any performance assessed ranking.

 

[aditya123]

What happened at the MCG today morning showed what some of the Indian fans were arguing about for the past few days. Australia, supposedly a far more skillful batting side under seaming conditions got bowled out for a sub-100 score yet again (not the first time in the last 10 months, I must add). England were bowled out for under 200 twice last test match. SA have`nt covered themselves with glory in their last two test series at home on seaming tracks. Noone jumped onto the bashwagon then.

 

[aditya123]

Unfortunately for you when you encounter a global sport like cricket you are required to get out of your own backyard once in a while to prove yourself in unfamiliar terrain. If preparing dust bowls the way you did at Eden gardens last time we were there is considered ok, then stop whining about the green mambas we're preparing over here.

You cant have your bread buttered on both sides.

Eden Gardens was a dust bowl? Did you even watch that game! It helped seamers on the first two days and was far from a dustbowl even on the last 2 days. In fact, you guys lost your first six wickets in the first innings at Eden to Zaheer and Ishant.

 

[Prithvi]

It seems that Gambhir is out. Chances for his presence in playing XI are damn slimmer. Lets hope Murali Vijay plays well .

 

[SaiSrini]

Did anyone watch the toss?? Just when it was about to start, I had heavy prayers on my lips, and when Smith won it and smiled at Dhoni, I just shouted in so much of pain.... DAMNNNNNNN ITTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!! Its also drizzled a bit before the start, and is overcast (stefan, note it down now, it is overcast and I am watching it live).

If everything goes according to script, we will be bowled out for less than 100 and SA are going to smash us up. Vijay, Pujara and Zaheer are in the team for Gambhir, Raina and Unadkat. I would take a punt and send in Pujara at No.3. Take some bold decisions today, and make heroes. This is a massive massive challenge (green pitch, overcast conditions, a team so vulnerable to these conditions that we are already readying up for another disaster).

 

[subversive]

Yeah and there's lots of grass on the pitch too, this is going to be real bad...

 

[SaiSrini]

I might watch it for a few minutes just because India batting always keeps up a little excited. But I am going to cover my face most of the time, because I know how it is going to go.

 

[Prithvi]

Its a prestige issue now for the famous Indian batting line up. Let the places of the seniors be at the same, but we need batsmen to stand strong opposing the conditions, more than bowlers. We already proved that we can face South African bowling. Now, its time for those conditions! If we prove that we can withstand the conditions, it means we've done justice to the "Numero Uno" spot!

 

[SaiSrini]

I am just hoping we dont get bowled out for less than 100. Thats the first target. If we reach that without much damage, I would be happy.

 

[relentless_rock]

India faced the exact same situation just the previous test. So its fair to say we are better prepared for this encounter than previous one.

 

[SaiSrini]

Sehwag got a nasty one for the very first ball, and got cut into half for a few balls which caused lot of problems for him. Yes, we should be better prepared but conditions here are far more tougher than that first day at Centurion. Hope we survive

Considering the pitch and the conditions, India have batted superbly in the first 30 mins of their innings! Keep it up boys! Sehwag gets two fours off Tsotbe. Thats a real good thing to get these runs when the pitch and the conditions are doing so much.

 

[SciD]

Damm. Saffers staring to pitch up and close to batsman now.

Continue bowling short please.

 

[relentless_rock]

Sehwag falls. Rub of the green has gone India's way so far.
This pitch would be a nice learning experience for M Vijay and Pujara.

 

[SaiSrini]

You can see that Vijay is doing well because Steyn has started resorting to verbal volleys to unsettle Vijay

Viru - Anyway THATS HOW HE PLAYS!!!! Could have stayed for that session which is going to be a short one.

 

[War]

What happened at the MCG today morning showed what some of the Indian fans were arguing about for the past few days. Australia, supposedly a far more skillful batting side under seaming conditions got bowled out for a sub-100 score yet again (not the first time in the last 10 months, I must add). England were bowled out for under 200 twice last test match. SA have`nt covered themselves with glory in their last two test series at home on seaming tracks. Noone jumped onto the bashwagon then.

The current AUS batting lineup (top 6) is nowhere near as skillful as AUS Top 6 of the glory days (95-2006/07) that would certainly not get get bowled out for 98 & 88 in the past 6 months, as the current AUS top 6 has.

So yea currently they aren't batting any better than a typical Indian/sub-continent side in such seaming/bouncy conditions.

But historically quite clearly proper AUS, SA, ENG batsmen fear better in such bowling conditions than sub-continent batting sides.