shan111
Associate Captain
Without any solid proof against Harbhajan, how are you so sure about he or for that matter the Indians have called symonds 'monkey'?
Is "monkey" offensive
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Hooper
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Because he has been charged with sufficient evidence says Mike Procter.
Symonds wouldnt make a fuss over nothing.
Symonds wouldnt make a fuss over nothing.
shan111
Associate Captain
If symonds would'nt make a fuss over nothing then the whole Indian team is bunch of liars I guess.
: Procter made the deicison without solid evidence, that is there was no audio proof neither any neutral party confirmed that 'monkey' was used. It was only Ponting, Clarke, Hayden's word vs Kumble, Sachin's word.
BONED!
School Cricketer
Personally, I don't think ANY of us can speculate as to whether he said it or not. But I agree that without evidence, and only the words of players who were standing far enough away to be as unable to hear as the umpire, the verdict should be thrown out due to lack of evidence.
I don't know whether he said it or not during the test, but I do believe that he did say it the first time in India. I saw an interview with him on 60 Minutes or the Cricket Show or something like that, and he never denied saying it, he only said that he wanted to move on from that, and that he was going to try really hard to be a good person when he came out to Australia. All to him, from the interview he seems like a very nice person! So I don't know if he would say it a second time, especially after saying that he just wanted to move on and play cricket and be a better person etc.
I don't know whether he said it or not during the test, but I do believe that he did say it the first time in India. I saw an interview with him on 60 Minutes or the Cricket Show or something like that, and he never denied saying it, he only said that he wanted to move on from that, and that he was going to try really hard to be a good person when he came out to Australia. All to him, from the interview he seems like a very nice person! So I don't know if he would say it a second time, especially after saying that he just wanted to move on and play cricket and be a better person etc.
fisch
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For those who don't think monkey is racist, you only have to look at the hurt that is felt by black footballers from teams such as England, when they travel to Eastern Europe and fans start making monkey chants.
Not only does it ridicule the appearance of a certain kind of people, it implies a 'sub-human' aspect, re-opening old wounds which have been around for centuries.
Not only does it ridicule the appearance of a certain kind of people, it implies a 'sub-human' aspect, re-opening old wounds which have been around for centuries.
pal
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I posted this earlier, but I'll post it again for relevancy:
Now, I don't know how the word 'monkey' is perceived in your nations, but just from a common sensical point of view, ask yourself these questions. How many people of African descent do you think an Indian living in India is likely to meet in his lifetime? Second, how much of African history, and, in part, slavery, do you think an Indian child is going to be taught in an Indian school? I mean, as an example, England did have some part in the slave trade, with respect to the Caribbean and other colonies, so, you would expect to learn about it. And besides, you also have a sizable population of people of African descent in your country, so you would understand what it means to be culturally sensible in that regard. So, Kev, you can't just say 'monkey' is a racist term across all cultures and countries and expect everyone to understand what that entails.
That was in response to a member claiming that the word 'monkey' is a racist term in all countries. That's simply not true. It may be so in countries that played a hand in the slave trade or have a significant population of people of African descent, but it simply does not work that way in the subcontinent and I would say, Asia, in general. For example, take a look at Chinese culture, monkeys are noted for their strength and intelligence.
But, coming back to Harbhajan's case, I don't think the above points can be used as an excuse, because we know from the series in India, that Symonds feels hurt when people call him monkey. So, anyone should know better than to call him that. But, the fact of the matter is that nothing other than hearsay was used to find him guilty and according to Cricinfo, Ponting and Gilchrist stated that they heard nothing during the trial. You just can't label a man racist, something that's going to affect him for the rest of his life, based on hearsay, especially when another witness, Tendulkar, states that that word was not used.
Now, I don't know how the word 'monkey' is perceived in your nations, but just from a common sensical point of view, ask yourself these questions. How many people of African descent do you think an Indian living in India is likely to meet in his lifetime? Second, how much of African history, and, in part, slavery, do you think an Indian child is going to be taught in an Indian school? I mean, as an example, England did have some part in the slave trade, with respect to the Caribbean and other colonies, so, you would expect to learn about it. And besides, you also have a sizable population of people of African descent in your country, so you would understand what it means to be culturally sensible in that regard. So, Kev, you can't just say 'monkey' is a racist term across all cultures and countries and expect everyone to understand what that entails.
That was in response to a member claiming that the word 'monkey' is a racist term in all countries. That's simply not true. It may be so in countries that played a hand in the slave trade or have a significant population of people of African descent, but it simply does not work that way in the subcontinent and I would say, Asia, in general. For example, take a look at Chinese culture, monkeys are noted for their strength and intelligence.
But, coming back to Harbhajan's case, I don't think the above points can be used as an excuse, because we know from the series in India, that Symonds feels hurt when people call him monkey. So, anyone should know better than to call him that. But, the fact of the matter is that nothing other than hearsay was used to find him guilty and according to Cricinfo, Ponting and Gilchrist stated that they heard nothing during the trial. You just can't label a man racist, something that's going to affect him for the rest of his life, based on hearsay, especially when another witness, Tendulkar, states that that word was not used.
erm you need to read more, and stop being ignorant by not facing that fact that calling a "black" person a monkey isn't the best thing in the world to say i suppose.
Kinda true that, but it does not mean that if it's not racist internationally.
How the hell would symonds know, he just took the offence as any "black" would IMO.
I' am deeply sure Harbhjan is aware of the fact that monkey isn't the best word to call to a guy from "black" background.
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Haha, Chinese Zodiac has Monkey as a sign. I forgot that 
So a black guy goes to China and is told he is a Monkey. That could be interesting. Oh, and did you know in Mandarin the word "*****" is used the same way the words "Umm...", "Errr..." and "Hmmm..." are in English, hence being very common? That would be very funny
And, I've just realised by reading this thread, that by reffering to my friends (And them in turn reffer to me) as Monkeys, Paki, White, Black, Bloody Englishman, British Wannabe, Terrorist, and Kanjus (Miserly), I've been a big racist, when I am really not
So yea, depends on how you use it and where, and if the person you call it takes offence. None of my friends do, I don't, and so we aren't racist. Thats that I guess.
So a black guy goes to China and is told he is a Monkey. That could be interesting. Oh, and did you know in Mandarin the word "*****" is used the same way the words "Umm...", "Errr..." and "Hmmm..." are in English, hence being very common? That would be very funny And, I've just realised by reading this thread, that by reffering to my friends (And them in turn reffer to me) as Monkeys, Paki, White, Black, Bloody Englishman, British Wannabe, Terrorist, and Kanjus (Miserly), I've been a big racist, when I am really not
So yea, depends on how you use it and where, and if the person you call it takes offence. None of my friends do, I don't, and so we aren't racist. Thats that I guess.
It would not be funny, unless it's stand up comedy,
it wont be nice to see symonds have soo many indian "friends" who shout monkey in a cricket match,
Haha, Chinese Zodiac has Monkey as a sign. I forgot that
And, I've just realised by reading this thread, that by reffering to my friends (And them in turn reffer to me) as Monkeys, Paki, White, Black, Bloody Englishman, British Wannabe, Terrorist, and Kanjus (Miserly), I've been a big racist, when I am really not
So yea, depends on how you use it and where, and if the person you call it takes offence. None of my friends do, I don't, and so we aren't racist. Thats that I guess.
it wont be nice to see symonds have soo many indian "friends" who shout monkey in a cricket match,
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Ponting would if it means that he could continue scoring hundreds again. He proved by claiming a dropped catch that he'll stoop to any level to win.
However, I remain firm of my view that Harbhajan probably did say it.
It is, google Russel Peters
He brings up a new issue. His jokes are clearly racist, as they are targetted at different races, but no one takes offence. Is it still racist?
its funny
, i've seen it.Harbhjan is calling him a monkey while symonds is not laughing? see
It is, google Russel Peters
He brings up a new issue. His jokes are clearly racist, as they are targetted at different races, but no one takes offence. Is it still racist?
I think his brand of humour is more like stereotyping than racism per se. He
takes potshots at large groups, not individuals, and he dishes it out evenly, as far as I know. When done well, this can be a cathartic and refreshing statement of equality. (I do think the guy reuses his material a lot, and has been running on his two and a half jokes for too long, but maybe that's just me.)
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I feel he's been using the same jokes a lot too, but hey, it's what the crowd wants. When they get stale, I'm sure he'll get new stuff.
There was a time he was picking individuals names and making fun of them based of their ethnicities (eg. Mexicans, West Indians, Indians, British), and everyone included the person liked it. It is racist in a way, but considering everyone gets it, it is fine.
So what if what Harbhajan said was more in jest than offence, like, "Wait till you come on two bowl you sill monkey". He probably intended to be humourous, but ended up offending again. If a comic made a racist joke and offended instead of making people laugh, would it be racism?
There was a time he was picking individuals names and making fun of them based of their ethnicities (eg. Mexicans, West Indians, Indians, British), and everyone included the person liked it. It is racist in a way, but considering everyone gets it, it is fine.
So what if what Harbhajan said was more in jest than offence, like, "Wait till you come on two bowl you sill monkey". He probably intended to be humourous, but ended up offending again. If a comic made a racist joke and offended instead of making people laugh, would it be racism?
