Overrated cricketers
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StinkyBoHoon
National Board President
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sehwag for me in under-rated. in my opinion over the last decade he's been the outstanding batsman yet is still regarded as secondary to tendulkar, ponting, kallis etc.
ok, so he's definitely more suited to flat tracks than really tricky conditions, but er, so what? on a flat track you're more likely to get a result with sehwag in your team. and for all the moaning about flat tracks, what have these great batsmen achiever with it. averages just a bit over 50? just like batsmen of the 00s, 10s, 20s, 30,s 40, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s?
only sehwag has taken batting into a different realm with his ridiculous strike rate. it's the only bradman esque stat in batting in the last 20 years. teams worry about declaring with a 300 target against india, just cause they know sehwag can knock 50 off that in about 10 overs if he gets going. (also, his 4th innings stats are misleading in that while he doesn't average very highly, he has hit a number of fast 50s setting up wins purely by turning the complexion of the chase on its head in a matter of minutes)
tendulkar is over-rated. technically excellent, perhaps the best ever, but has far too rarely been able to impact matches. funnily, sehwag hitting top form was exactly when india became the no.1 test side.
Bell is also over-rated. poor mans tendulkar, pretty player but very few instances of causing the opposition real problems.
ok, so he's definitely more suited to flat tracks than really tricky conditions, but er, so what? on a flat track you're more likely to get a result with sehwag in your team. and for all the moaning about flat tracks, what have these great batsmen achiever with it. averages just a bit over 50? just like batsmen of the 00s, 10s, 20s, 30,s 40, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s?
only sehwag has taken batting into a different realm with his ridiculous strike rate. it's the only bradman esque stat in batting in the last 20 years. teams worry about declaring with a 300 target against india, just cause they know sehwag can knock 50 off that in about 10 overs if he gets going. (also, his 4th innings stats are misleading in that while he doesn't average very highly, he has hit a number of fast 50s setting up wins purely by turning the complexion of the chase on its head in a matter of minutes)
tendulkar is over-rated. technically excellent, perhaps the best ever, but has far too rarely been able to impact matches. funnily, sehwag hitting top form was exactly when india became the no.1 test side.
Bell is also over-rated. poor mans tendulkar, pretty player but very few instances of causing the opposition real problems.
Surely you have to be rated in the first place to be over-rated and that's where Warner falls down for me. I'm vaguely aware of him having a good season in IPL once but I don't think of him as a test player.
Laughing at the Swann hatred. He hasn't played a test in India since 2008 where he was England's leading wicket taker after a stupidly short two test series. Not really enough evidence to judge him on...
For me it's probably Haddin. Have never seen him justify his place at test level.
Laughing at the Swann hatred. He hasn't played a test in India since 2008 where he was England's leading wicket taker after a stupidly short two test series. Not really enough evidence to judge him on...
For me it's probably Haddin. Have never seen him justify his place at test level.
StinkyBoHoon
National Board President
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oh, I have 3. taylor, ryder and and kane williamson.
they're not bad players, but when they emerged I think a lot of people got excited about a possible new dawn for kiwi cricket. 24 year olds that were test level! the reality is they'd be morgan or duminy if they played for better sides and would have been dropped (taylor might make it at 6 for some teams) and on the fringes of the side.
they're not bad players, but when they emerged I think a lot of people got excited about a possible new dawn for kiwi cricket. 24 year olds that were test level! the reality is they'd be morgan or duminy if they played for better sides and would have been dropped (taylor might make it at 6 for some teams) and on the fringes of the side.
I don't agree with Raina, the guy isn't overrated because he isn't rated. He's not even in the Indian test side at the moment. So...I don't know why you folks think he's overrated.
I've always thought that off-spinners are never going to be very good bowlers at Test level, if they don't have one that goes the other way. I think I still feel the same way. I just don't think the classical off spinning action allows the bowler to do much besides bowl a good off spinner. Jacques Kallis is the best player of off spin I've seen. He's got a great way of moving across and working just about everything to the on side, unless you bowl a metre outside off stump.
This is why I think Swann, despite the success he's had, is overrated. I think sooner or later his average is going to rise. We'll see.
I agree with Ross Taylor. Again, I am surprised how he manages to get the runs that he does, not that he gets a lot mind you. Utter slogger, slogs everything to midwicket but I guess he plays it well.
I've always thought that off-spinners are never going to be very good bowlers at Test level, if they don't have one that goes the other way. I think I still feel the same way. I just don't think the classical off spinning action allows the bowler to do much besides bowl a good off spinner. Jacques Kallis is the best player of off spin I've seen. He's got a great way of moving across and working just about everything to the on side, unless you bowl a metre outside off stump.
This is why I think Swann, despite the success he's had, is overrated. I think sooner or later his average is going to rise. We'll see.
I agree with Ross Taylor. Again, I am surprised how he manages to get the runs that he does, not that he gets a lot mind you. Utter slogger, slogs everything to midwicket but I guess he plays it well.
StinkyBoHoon
National Board President
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really though, getting people to disagree is the hallmark of a good suggestion. If everyone agreed someone was over-rated then we'd be in the position of asking ourselves who was rating them so highly.
so yeah, I'm invoking paradoxes to defend my decisions.
so yeah, I'm invoking paradoxes to defend my decisions.
That was a preemptive strike
Warne was bad against India as well. Did not want u or anyone to compare swan to Warne because of this. Sunil Naraine is causing more trouble in India compared to swan.Agree with Taylor being overrated. Mccullum and Kambli come to mind as well.
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Found another person who feels player ranking is crap.So yea swan is overrated.
www.planetcricket.org/forums/2232537-post4.html
I said the ranking system's crap 'cause Swann should be #1 in all 3 formats. 
No. Player ranking system's indeed heavily flawed, but stats aren't. You might wanna check the latter out before lashing at me. I was too lazy to do the job of collecting facts and presenting it to you in order to prove his quality, which is why I used the ranking system for my convenience.
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But hey, he's been in the ICC Test team of the year twice in a row now, and the ODI team of the year for 2011 (mind you, the only Englishman in the XI). How's he over-rated then?
No. Player ranking system's indeed heavily flawed, but stats aren't. You might wanna check the latter out before lashing at me. I was too lazy to do the job of collecting facts and presenting it to you in order to prove his quality, which is why I used the ranking system for my convenience.
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But hey, he's been in the ICC Test team of the year twice in a row now, and the ODI team of the year for 2011 (mind you, the only Englishman in the XI). How's he over-rated then?
I said the ranking system's crap 'cause Swann should be #1 in all 3 formats.
No. Player ranking system's indeed heavily flawed, but stats aren't. You might wanna check the latter out before lashing at me. I was too lazy to do the job of collecting facts and presenting it to you in order to prove his quality, which is why I used the ranking system for my convenience.
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But hey, he's been in the ICC Test team of the year twice in a row now, and the ODI team of the year for 2011 (mind you, the only Englishman in the XI). How's he over-rated then?
you said sehwag is over-rated, then let me tell you he was the opener of ICC TEST team of the year twice in last 5-6 years. He is the only batsman in the world who can win Test Match by his own on those flat tracks. He has got century in south Afrcia (debut match), england, Australia, WI. In Sub-continet he has got double hundreds against Pakistan (2double, 1 triple) and srilanka. (2 double)
So how is he over-rated ?
About Warner, this guy hasn't played much cricket and people who rates him must be stupid.
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The manner in which people overrated him to come back and destroy the English bowling attack in Edgbaston after being 2-0 down in the series is what got me thinking he was a tad overrated.
That said, I still stand by the fact that he's a walk in the park for Eng/Aus/SA new-ball bowlers. Steyn, Jimmy and Johnson already showed that.
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He's being over-rated by the selectors. They expect him to do a Sehwag with the bat opening the innings for Australia, which obviously won't work in those bouncy wickets in Australia.
Edit: His FC figures are actually pretty stunning! I totally take back my words on this guy.
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Those people were very Optimistic. Sehwag didn't played cricket for 4 months before that 3rd test.
You are talking about same steyn against whom he scored triple hundred. and when last time SA came he scored two back-to back hundreds.
He scored 150 in adelaide against johnson also.
if you remember this guy snatch a win from england in Last test match in chennai where india needed 387 runs.
And believe me what i have seen of sehwag in last 10 years that he loves taking revenge. i won't be surprise if he scores his 3rd TRIPLE HUNDRED against England next year.
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He's being over-rated by the selectors. They expect him to do a Sehwag with the bat opening the innings for Australia, which obviously won't work in those bouncy wickets in Australia.
Edit: His FC figures are actually pretty stunning! I totally take back my words on this guy.
Sehwag averages 58 in Australia.
So if he warner can match that then Australian selectors won't mind.
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AbhishekS
Chairman of Selectors
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Graeme Swann undoubtedly. And I don't think Pollard is over-rated as everyone counts him just as a T20 slogger, and he indeed is very good at it, and so I feel he is rated as he should be.
And I feel sorry for them who feel Sehwag is over-rated.
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And those who feel Sehwag is over-rated, then even Steyn is!
The reason being that if Sehwag becomes over-rated for 'failing' in South Africa (even though he has scored a ton there), then even the same Steyn failed against Sehwag who smashed a triple ton with a strike rate of more than 100 in India.
I am not doubting the talent of Steyn, he indeed is awesome and in no manner over-rated, but I'm just trying to tell that each coin has two sides and it's important to analyze both of them.
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And those who feel Sehwag cannot bat on fast bouncy wickets, have a look at the ESPNCricinfo links below. It is the list of Indian batsmen sorted in descending order of batting average of tests played in Australia (and obviously against Australia) in the last two decades.
Just have a look at who is at the top.
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo
And I feel sorry for them who feel Sehwag is over-rated.
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And those who feel Sehwag is over-rated, then even Steyn is!
The reason being that if Sehwag becomes over-rated for 'failing' in South Africa (even though he has scored a ton there), then even the same Steyn failed against Sehwag who smashed a triple ton with a strike rate of more than 100 in India.
I am not doubting the talent of Steyn, he indeed is awesome and in no manner over-rated, but I'm just trying to tell that each coin has two sides and it's important to analyze both of them.
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And those who feel Sehwag cannot bat on fast bouncy wickets, have a look at the ESPNCricinfo links below. It is the list of Indian batsmen sorted in descending order of batting average of tests played in Australia (and obviously against Australia) in the last two decades.
Just have a look at who is at the top.
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo
puddleduck
Chairman of Selectors
McCullum. Glorified pinch hitter.
Sehwag can bat on bouncy wickets of course he can. His entire technique is based around taking a step backwards and freeing his arms square of the wicket. Pretty much his entire armoury of shots to quick bowlers are back foot cuts. What he can't do however, is bat when a ball is swinging or when the pitch has uneven bounce. This partly explains his astronomical drop in batting average from first innings to second innings.
When the ball is swinging, you can almost guarantee Sehwag will knick off, and when it's uneven (2nd innings in India for example) he has a tendency to chop on to his own stumps.
If his eyes and hands see him through that first period though, there becomes very little you can do if the pitch is also flat.
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For those referencing Swann. I think he probably is a bit over rated by most English fans as essentially he is just a traditonal finger spinning off spinner.
However, if English fans are guilty of overrating him, then I would suggest the majority of the International cricket batting alumni are equally guilty since so many of them have done nothing but block out Swann's spells for the last year or two (and his numbers still make decent reading in that time).
Here we have a man who has been successful without a freakish Elbow/Wrist condition or by being one of the most gifted Leg Spinners of all time. So, though Swann won't be getting into any all time XIs anytime soon, it is nice that in a time when pitches so rarely help any bowlers, a conventional off spinner still enjoys good success.
Sehwag can bat on bouncy wickets of course he can. His entire technique is based around taking a step backwards and freeing his arms square of the wicket. Pretty much his entire armoury of shots to quick bowlers are back foot cuts. What he can't do however, is bat when a ball is swinging or when the pitch has uneven bounce. This partly explains his astronomical drop in batting average from first innings to second innings.
When the ball is swinging, you can almost guarantee Sehwag will knick off, and when it's uneven (2nd innings in India for example) he has a tendency to chop on to his own stumps.
If his eyes and hands see him through that first period though, there becomes very little you can do if the pitch is also flat.
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For those referencing Swann. I think he probably is a bit over rated by most English fans as essentially he is just a traditonal finger spinning off spinner.
However, if English fans are guilty of overrating him, then I would suggest the majority of the International cricket batting alumni are equally guilty since so many of them have done nothing but block out Swann's spells for the last year or two (and his numbers still make decent reading in that time).
Here we have a man who has been successful without a freakish Elbow/Wrist condition or by being one of the most gifted Leg Spinners of all time. So, though Swann won't be getting into any all time XIs anytime soon, it is nice that in a time when pitches so rarely help any bowlers, a conventional off spinner still enjoys good success.
Rohit Doshi
International Coach
Ranking is bullshit when it comes to Players. I have mentioned that earlier also and I echo my words even now!
Swann might be in top 10 in ODI's T20's Test's but that list even has Harbhajan Singh some where not sure which format. I just read in the ICC rankings thread which is absolutely true that how many bowlers are there in present world to bowl?
England are no1 and they are bound to have their bowlers in the top 10.
Lets check out,Swann's career from 2000 to 2011 in all away matches he has played.
Format
-- Test Matches - 79 wickets @ 31 average
-- ODI Matches - 28 wickets @ 36 as his average
-- T20 Matches - 8 @ 23 as his average.
Now lets split it according to the countries he's faced
vs Australia - 15 wickets at 40
vs Bangladesh - 16 Wickets at 26
(only you could do that Swanny )
vs India - 8 wickets at 40
vs South Africa - 21 wickets @ 32
vs West Indies 19 wickets @ 24
It will be really testing for Swann to prove whether he is over or under rated with the upcoming Sri Lankan and Pakistan tour.
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Well well well!!
Just saw his home record too, averages 27 at home but because he bowled against oppositions like Pakistan (you know how that series was ) & West Indies picking 41% of his wickets.
His average against quality Australian side is 41.
His average against quality Indian side(although we lost) is 41
His average against Bangladesh is 36
His average against Sri Lanka is 25
Swann might be in top 10 in ODI's T20's Test's but that list even has Harbhajan Singh some where not sure which format. I just read in the ICC rankings thread which is absolutely true that how many bowlers are there in present world to bowl?
England are no1 and they are bound to have their bowlers in the top 10.
Lets check out,Swann's career from 2000 to 2011 in all away matches he has played.
Format
-- Test Matches - 79 wickets @ 31 average
-- ODI Matches - 28 wickets @ 36 as his average
-- T20 Matches - 8 @ 23 as his average.
Now lets split it according to the countries he's faced
vs Australia - 15 wickets at 40
vs Bangladesh - 16 Wickets at 26
(only you could do that Swanny )vs India - 8 wickets at 40
vs South Africa - 21 wickets @ 32
vs West Indies 19 wickets @ 24
It will be really testing for Swann to prove whether he is over or under rated with the upcoming Sri Lankan and Pakistan tour.
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Well well well!!
Just saw his home record too, averages 27 at home
but because he bowled against oppositions like Pakistan (you know how that series was ) & West Indies picking 41% of his wickets.His average against quality Australian side is 41.
His average against quality Indian side(although we lost) is 41
His average against Bangladesh is 36
His average against Sri Lanka is 25
