Pakistan vs England Jul-Aug-Sep 2010

[MUFC1987]

If an average of 49 and a strike rate of 100 is terribly out of form, I wouldn't want to be bowling at him when he is in form.

On a serious point though, I'm not surprised that Davies has been given a go with the gloves, but I would have retained Kieswetter in the squad with Pietersen out. Give him a go either opening or at 3 without having to worry about the gloves to see how he goes. The ODI squad seems to be relying on Wright at 6 and Bresnan at 7, which could be an issue on pitches with a bit of juice in them.

 

[War]

I fail to see the point of persisting with Kieswetter in this case. He's be horribly out of nick since the Twenty20 World Championship. In 12 innings he averages mid 20s while Davies' average is above 60 with a century.

And the whole Kieswetter is capable of taking apart international attacks doesn't wash with me, his strike rate is rather average.

He was out of form after the T20 WC yes - the AUS exposed some technical flaws. But he already proved himself, all Kieswetter probably needed was some time back county cricket to get some runs & he has done.

He is the best thing facing the new-ball ENG have found since Trescothick & he certainly deserved more of an extended run given they are no obvious better candidates on the county circuit. With KP & Bell out - let him bat @#3 withou the gloves even & see how he goes.

 

[Themer]

He is the best thing facing the new-ball ENG have found since Trescothick & he certainly deserved more of an extended run given they are no obvious better candidates on the county circuit.

Davies has been averaging over 60 at a very good strike rate this year in the CB 40 and has been doing very well for a number of years. He's definitely worth a go in my opinion instead of pigeonholing Kieswetter for the role when he's out of the form.

Themer added 15 Minutes and 47 Seconds later...

If we look at how they've both done respectively in any form of List A match this year;

Kieswetter has scored 464 runs averaging 31 at a strike rate of 94 compared to Davies who has scored 645 averaging 53 at a strike rate of 118.

Add on to that that Kieswetter has played in 12 ODI's and averages 26 despite playing quite alot of those matches against Bangladesh means that I'd give Davies a go.

 

[Sureshot]

He was out of form after the T20 WC yes - the AUS exposed some technical flaws. But he already proved himself, all Kieswetter probably needed was some time back county cricket to get some runs & he has done.

He is the best thing facing the new-ball ENG have found since Trescothick & he certainly deserved more of an extended run given they are no obvious better candidates on the county circuit. With KP & Bell out - let him bat @#3 withou the gloves even & see how he goes.

But is the International circuit the place to find form? I think Davies deserves a run in the side, Kieswetter has been poor in the games post-T20 WC and hasn't done a lot in the short stuff for Somerset. His technical flaws are quite horrible too.

 

[War]

Davies has been averaging over 60 at a very good strike rate this year in the CB 40 and has been doing very well for a number of years. He's definitely worth a go in my opinion instead of pigeonholing Kieswetter for the role when he's out of the form.



Themer added 15 Minutes and 47 Seconds later...

If we look at how they've both done respectively in any form of List A match this year;

Kieswetter has scored 464 runs averaging 31 at a strike rate of 94 compared to Davies who has scored 645 averaging 53 at a strike rate of 118.

Add on to that that Kieswetter has played in 12 ODI's and averages 26 despite playing quite alot of those matches against Bangladesh means that I'd give Davies a go.

I think i have mentioned this before here. But based on watching Davies bat over the years i dont think he is truly capable of smoking international attacks in the power-play overs @ that high SR he has done in CC.

He comes across more of the type of bat who will give you a 40/run-a-ball 50 @ internaitonal level if he gets going. While Kieswetter is the man who will give you a 30-ball 50.

Like me the selectors & Flower clearly recognised this difference, which is why Kieswetter was picked for the T20 WC squad instead of Davies. So yea Kieswetter has to pigeonholed in that role since he is the best in ENG @ it.

Plus no he wasn't really out of form, just some technical flaws where exposed vs the AUS - which they would do to anyone with their top attack. So for me all he needed was some runs back in CC (since he is already a proven international performer) - then he should be persisted with in the ODI side. Only way he should have been dropped is if he continued to fail in the first couple ODIs vs PAK.

 

[War]

But is the International circuit the place to find form? I think Davies deserves a run in the side, Kieswetter has been poor in the games post-T20 WC and hasn't done a lot in the short stuff for Somerset. His technical flaws are quite horrible too.

Didn't he score a hundred for Somerset the other day?.

Him technical flaws is like a right handed Tresocthick & that didn't stop Tres from having a top ODI career.

 

[Themer]

But based on watching Davies bat over the years i dont think he is truly capable of smoking international attacks in the power-play overs @ that high SR he has done in CC.

I'm sorry but you can't say in every single discussion that "I've watched him alot and he isn't/is good enough".

Similarly I after watching Kieswetter in twelve matches (ODI) don't believe he should be currently in the team. For the time being he should be dropped as he hasn't been performing well enough while we have someone who's in brilliant nick at a better strike rate.

 

[sifter132]

He was out of form after the T20 WC yes - the AUS exposed some technical flaws. But he already proved himself, all Kieswetter probably needed was some time back county cricket to get some runs & he has done.

He is the best thing facing the new-ball ENG have found since Trescothick & he certainly deserved more of an extended run given they are no obvious better candidates on the county circuit. With KP & Bell out - let him bat @#3 withou the gloves even & see how he goes.

Already proved himself? Where?? Against who?? You said he suffered in the ODIs against Aus, the only other teams he's ever played in ODIs are Bangladesh and Scotland... So your proof is what, the T20 final v Aus? because that's about the only impressive thing I've seen him do against an 'international attack'. Basically all he's proven to me is that he can belt Shane Watson.

 

[Afriditown07]

Hope the Pakistan XI not including the match fixers can put up a good fight.
Akhtar will make for a great replacement for Amir, and Asif was crap in limited overs anyway.

 

[Iridium]

Already proved himself? Where?? Against who?? You said he suffered in the ODIs against Aus, the only other teams he's ever played in ODIs are Bangladesh and Scotland... So your proof is what, the T20 final v Aus? because that's about the only impressive thing I've seen him do against an 'international attack'. Basically all he's proven to me is that he can belt Shane Watson.

Too right. Just because he performed well in the World T20, it doesn't necessarily translate into good form in 50-over and Test format. It was a good move to drop him. Give him a bit of a wake up call letting him know that he isn't invincible and that if he doesn't perform, he will get the boot.

 

[War]

I'm sorry but you can't say in every single discussion that "I've watched him alot and he isn't/is good enough".

Similarly I after watching Kieswetter in twelve matches (ODI) don't believe he should be currently in the team. For the time being he should be dropped as he hasn't been performing well enough while we have someone who's in brilliant nick at a better strike rate.

I dont say in every discussion "I've watched him alot and he isn't/is good enough". I rather "I take County stats into consideration, and then after that consider how good they look when I've seen them play, since it is always unwise to take judge county stats on face value".

Has i said before regarding Davies:

But based on watching Davies bat over the years i dont think he is truly capable of smoking international attacks in the power-play overs @ that high SR he has done in CC.

Davies comes across more of the type of bat who will give you a 40/run-a-ball 50 @ internaitonal level if he gets going. While Kieswetter is the man who will give you a 30-ball 50

This admittedly for me is more of a gut feeling argument for, which could be proven right or wrong. Bu i'm willing to stick on my position for the time being.

Already proved himself? Where?? Against who?? You said he suffered in the ODIs against Aus, the only other teams he's ever played in ODIs are Bangladesh and Scotland... So your proof is what, the T20 final v Aus? because that's about the only impressive thing I've seen him do against an 'international attack'. Basically all he's proven to me is that he can belt Shane Watson.

Not just the T20 Final vs AUS which obviously was his pinnacle performace. His entire T20 WC batting showed the kind of natural & quality hitting that ENG have missed since Trescothick left. Of course he hasn't showed the level of consistently with the obvious natural ability that ENG would have liked - but i will always back him to come good ATS.

 

[Themer]

Of course he hasn't showed the level of consistently with the obvious natural ability that ENG would have liked - but i will always back him to come good ATS.

To be honest he hasn't shown any ability in the one day arena for England. Take away his scratch century where he was dropped a few times against Bangladesh and he averages 17.75.

Yes he has potential and can hit a ball but Davies has more than deserved an opportunity and has a better strike rate than Kieswetter has in one day cricket.

 

[Owzat]

When was the last time an England keeper averaged consistently much over 20? We need five proper batsmen who can average 30+ across the board, and then any 20+ s will do. Problem with England is they pick the likes of Bresnan and Wright who offer little with bat or ball so are a waste of a slot

 

[calebelfc]

When was the last time an England keeper averaged consistently much over 20? We need five proper batsmen who can average 30+ across the board, and then any 20+ s will do. Problem with England is they pick the likes of Bresnan and Wright who offer little with bat or ball so are a waste of a slot

I think if you look at Wright's ODI stats, (20.40 with the bat and 52.50 with the ball), you cant quite believe how he's played 40 games and continues to be played. However, in his case I believe the selectors disregard his stats to an extent and focus in on what he offers to the "team". Hence the inclusion in a few test squads last year.

He's often gone in with a few overs left and smashed a quick 25 off 12 balls, not concerned with his average but more playing for the team. He hasn't been helped that he's moved around the order a lot but Flower seems set on him coming in lower down the order for now.

So I would have to disagree, in Wright's case anyway, that he's a "waste of a slot".

 

[Sureshot]

I think he's drastically under bowled, he showed his potential as a death bowler early on, and Strauss seems intent on using Jimmy (who seems to have forgotten he has a very good yorker).

He clearly isn't the most cemented player in the side, but it's a way off the McGrath days.