Playing Cricket vs. Watching Cricket

[Fissionmailed]

All the great old baseball games even going back to the NES like RBI baseball had behind the batter views, i wouldn't imagine many people wanting a more broadcast style behind the pitcher view as it would be harder to judge where the ball was going and if it was going to be a strike or not. (although there were baseball games that did only have broadcast cameras) Similarly in cricket, without the old pitch marker there i feel it takes way longer to figure out where the ball is going, outing yourself at a disadvantage.

Obviously different sports, presented in different ways, but definitely similarities in there.

Anyway, my signature which popped up after similar discussion around the time of that famous first play test footage is very related to this discussion, I feel it sums up everything quite nicely.

 

[Plotinus]

Since cameras are the hot topic

Pro cam improvements needed.

. Side screen color problem needs to b solved. As sometimes it's white while playin with the white ball.
. Option to turn on ball circle while running only. Will help when using pro cam in running.
. Head movement improvements.
. Running assist in pro cam running mode. Assist by the batting partner may b.

I'm a big fan of Pro Cam. I use it for batting all the time (without any ball markers at all). I do agree, however, that it would be nice to have some ball marker when running, because it isn't always easy to see the ball. Running with Pro Cam could certainly do with some improvements...the problem at the moment is that it doesn't feel like looking with your eyes, it feels like watching the view from a camera strapped to your head. Eyes and vision don't work like cameras, as what you 'see' is the brain's interpretation of the world...so your brain eliminates all of the head movement that a camera would pick up. Pro Cam should emulate sight not a camera. It will still be difficult to do until DBC VR is launched, but the design for DBC17 should be more geared to the experience of sight rather than emulating a bobbley camera.

 

[cricket_online]

The debate about the broadcast camera is storm in a teacup. Let the users who want the improved broadcast camera angle, make the request and let the Big Ant folks determine whether the change is warranted. I always lean towards giving users as much control over as many aspects of gameplay as possible. That's the reason I'm so big on slider based settings and hope they make it to DBC 17. Cricket video gaming is such a niche category that we can't afford to alienate the existing user base. If even 10-15% users want a certain aspect or feature added, IMO Big Ant should consider it and in case it doesn't have a major impact or doesn't impact the design of the game, no harm in adding these features.

In fact I've heard certain folks talk or ask about a pitch marker as an option. If, and I want to add it's a huge if, Big Ant are able to find a way to add that as an option without redesigning the game, add that in the game as well since it will only bring in more target consumers. At the end of the day it's a video game and I firmly believe users should be able to tailor the game to their optimal user experience. as an example I like to bat in "Far behind the batsman" camera without the pitch marker. But I understand that some other folks may prefer "Pro Cam" without any hud elements or some other set of users may like to bat in "Broadcast camera" with pitch marker enabled. If the game can support these options without major enhancements I say add them. It's up to Big Ant to figure out which features can and cannot be supported but I hope the DBC franchise has all the cricket video gaming fans on board and it goes from strength to strength. After Codemasters, this is the first time e have a game developer focusing on cricket and I sincerely hope they are successful.

 

[blockerdave]

The debate about the broadcast camera is storm in a teacup. Let the users who want the improved broadcast camera angle, make the request and let the Big Ant folks determine whether the change is warranted. I always lean towards giving users as much control over as many aspects of gameplay as possible. That's the reason I'm so big on slider based settings and hope they make it to DBC 17. Cricket video gaming is such a niche category that we can't afford to alienate the existing user base. If even 10-15% users want a certain aspect or feature added, IMO Big Ant should consider it and in case it doesn't have a major impact or doesn't impact the design of the game, no harm in adding these features.

In fact I've heard certain folks talk or ask about a pitch marker as an option. If, and I want to add it's a huge if, Big Ant are able to find a way to add that as an option without redesigning the game, add that in the game as well since it will only bring in more target consumers. At the end of the day it's a video game and I firmly believe users should be able to tailor the game to their optimal user experience. as an example I like to bat in "Far behind the batsman" camera without the pitch marker. But I understand that some other folks may prefer "Pro Cam" without any hud elements or some other set of users may like to bat in "Broadcast camera" with pitch marker enabled. If the game can support these options without major enhancements I say add them. It's up to Big Ant to figure out which features can and cannot be supported but I hope the DBC franchise has all the cricket video gaming fans on board and it goes from strength to strength. After Codemasters, this is the first time e have a game developer focusing on cricket and I sincerely hope they are successful.

all ive been asking for is to explain the problem properly - that is how developers come up with solutions. saying improve it doesn't help.

he has now said the problem is it doesn't look like tv - it looks much more like tv than cricket 07. should it still be improved if that was the only problem?

the idea of not harming anyone is also a bit weird. the broadcast camera in DBC14 looks exactly like the tv. if you like that, if you watch replays in that etc. should you lose that because a vocal minority confused a 10 year old game with tv?

 

[grkrama]

I believe what people are asking is not broadcast camera by any means, but a static centered zoom in zoom out camera! Something similar which can also be achieved by using far bowler cams with broadcast/fielder for fielding!

While I also agree with the whole 'everybody needs to be catered to philosophy', it has to be done in BA style, if there is a problem or feature request and if feasible should be addressed but staying in essence to the game and BA style not go back to old systems that DBC has sought so much to break free off!


For Ex: pitch markers, the thing here is

Problem: not being able to judge the delivery out of the bowler's hand , controller to batsman delay in timing delivery in real time etc

Sol: Give option for EA C0X style pitch marker

Rather How about we

1. Describe the problem in its essence
2. Suggest a solution we think would improve the game without compromising its personality

like this : Improving Batting Assist for DBC/ playing without circle marker - Don Bradman Cricket 14 Forum on PlanetCricket Forums

3. Let BA come up with a solution first by knowing the exact nature of the problem and then having gained feedback with suggestions for it which have been brainstormed, discussed and nitpicked to the death by a bunch of crazy fans in the forum!


While i do agree options in game should be available to make a game accessible to as much folk as possible, it should be such that it makes its core self accessible through options like say the difficulty sliders you have mentioned that adds to the game or more like opens the core game more, but not party dress with options by say adding in throw away pitch marker cause its not core game, while at first it may look like alienating the pitch marker guy its basically preventing diluting the game as well as resources in that direction,

1.At first it will be like 'I just need a doughnut there that's just 3 hours quick hack for you guys you can do it'

2.Next, you know the marker is not varying size according to bowler speed you should do that,

3.Then the timing is to easy with the marker on so can you alter the batting variation with it......

by now you are looking practically changing gameplay due to one extra option to suit, ... you know what comes next...

4.Now that we have pitch marker why dont we have keyboard support its easier, .. next i cant press three keys together on Keyboard can you alter direction .....

The thing is if a person wants something to be exactly like something.. no amount catering will appease them other than that thing itself!

I mean the above case of broadcast camera is a classic example,
starts with i want broadcast camera improved, just plain straight it no zoom, without telling how in detail and what actually is the problem! Just that i want to feel like watching on television!
Then suggests it needs to be like EAC07 camera which is not a broadcast camera at all but rather a static one!
Now we need a static cam but not just any static cam one that exactly looks like c07 but also feel like watching on television!


This is akin to asking George RR martin to make westros into a cheery wunderland were children feed cuddly dragons with cotton candy, cause he can do it! After painful consideration he may say, 'Ok may be make the kings landing a bit more partying or mereen?
No no, i want it exactly to be like alice in wonderland, i want that rabbit and that Giant mushroom
GRMM:............. Makes a character named Rabbit and kills it gruesomely!

DBC has always been about options that fantastic academy is a testament to that, but these options are also there because it made those brave decisions to not support keyboard, to not have pitch marker because these options are money, resource, liability that an Innovative but not so huge studio like Bigant cant afford to waste IMHO if they had to make the game they wanted!

At the end of the day its as much about Game maker's satisfaction as it is about the user, If the dev has a vision its that which should shine through the game and take the resources and efforts rather than try to accommodate things that take the game away from it!

 

[blockerdave]

brilliant post @grkrama

you are right the bowling cam looks closer to what was requested.

and as you say people need to explain the issues and the impacts- thats how solutions get designed.

 

[balkeet]

wow, I have never written so much in one answer in my academic

 

[IceAgeComing]

All the great old baseball games even going back to the NES like RBI baseball had behind the batter views, i wouldn't imagine many people wanting a more broadcast style behind the pitcher view as it would be harder to judge where the ball was going and if it was going to be a strike or not.

I was just going to mention this since its the most sensible comparison and much better than people using FIFA. MLB The Show has a similar camera system to DBC in that you have a bunch of behind the batter cam choices for batting, a bunch of behind the pitcher cam choices for pitching; and a "broadcast" view that's 100% accurate but crap to play with and you can mix and match what you want: you could bat from the broadcast view if you want but it'd be almost unplayable: it'd be really hard to time the ball and also reading whether something is a ball or a strike would be all but impossible, especially for pitches high or low in the zone. I suppose that you could say that Big Ant took inspiration from Sony!

In terms of the premise of the thread; I very much prefer feeling like I'm actually playing the sport that I'm meant to be playing. That's why I generally stick to the career mode, I find that its more thrilling when you're batting with one player and know that if you mess up then you're done, very much gives you a different feel to the more traditional gameplay modes. I actually think that playing IRL has actually helped me play in the game, I'm not premeditating as much and am timing the ball much better. Its interesting that my weaknesses seem to be the same in both: I'm mince against spin bowling outside off-stump in both the game and in reality!

 

[Alexei.]

Playing Cricket or Watching Cricket?

Playing

 

[Biggs]

i still think the batsman should get more of the screen, i think it's more important for them than the bowler.

I think having the camera move slightly back for the batsman, floating mid-air between the keeper/crease ...zooming in for the delivery and then back out again smoothly as you make the shot, is prolly the solution to that. I wouldn't want to not give the bowler less.

Obviously different sports, presented in different ways, but definitely similarities in there.

Ross mentioned in the early days their inspiration for the switch and evolution in cameras was the baseball franchise games in the US. Their goal wasn't to replicate the "broadcast feel" of games gone before but put you "in the thick of it" cricket-wise. For all intents, the evolution of presentation in DBC17 will continue this trend, which is why reverting back or re-litigating broadcast camera, is kind of a waste of time because as mentioned previously, BigAnt are ahead of the curve in regards to their game design and presentation and will more likely spend time perfecting their preferred presentation methods... and as this thread demonstrates, the demand to "feel like you're playing cricket" is vastly higher than to feel like you're watching it... which was, by design, the intent of my topic starter.

I very much prefer feeling like I'm actually playing the sport that I'm meant to be playing. That's why I generally stick to the career mode, I find that its more thrilling when you're batting with one player and know that if you mess up then you're done, very much gives you a different feel to the more traditional gameplay modes.

Of all the things DBC offers I think this is one of it's best representations of "playing the game". When you're in Career mode, there's no auto-save, there's no safety net. If you score a duck, that's it. You're simulating the rest of the match and waiting to contribute until the next game. It's why, on a slightly different tangent, I am strongly against any kind of auto-save feature being introduced in career mode... there is no "save" on Saturday mornings for any of us.

 

[blockerdave]

I think having the camera move slightly back for the batsman, floating mid-air between the keeper/crease ...zooming in for the delivery and then back out again smoothly as you make the shot, is prolly the solution to that. I wouldn't want to not give the bowler less.

i will give the bowler 30-35%. that's my final offer

 

[Biggs]

 

[CaptainOZ]

Playing

At least give Albert Einstein the honour of spelling his name correctly.

 

[yashbothra]

the last one is like watching cricket graphics beauty [HASHTAG]#dbc14[/HASHTAG]

 

[BRAB]

the last one is like watching cricket graphics beauty [HASHTAG]#dbc14[/HASHTAG]

Is your game always that choppy or is it your recording software?

If you're on PC I'd recommend grabbing the fearsome tweak mod on the downloads board, you'll get even better wickets then the ones you've posted.