Premeditation Solutions

[Deleted member 9102]

Part of the problem with judging length is the lack of depth perception because it's a 2D image of a 3D environment. A ball that seems to be falling faster could mean two things - it's shorter, or it has more pace, same with the opposite; a full ball can be mistaken for a slower one because it doesn't fall as quickly.

The only things I can think of to pick up on this (other than the HUD helpers) are the size of the ball on the screen (closer = bigger), the shadow cast by the ball or slight visual differences in the trajectory between slower and fuller balls. With enough practice you can improve at seeing the signs that are there to judge the length, some people more than others, but there are limitations which mean it's much harder than real life even with the coloured indicators enabled.

Spatial awareness, depth perception and muscle memory/reflexes all help out the reaction to use your feet and get yourself balanced for the length of the ball and it almost becomes a subconscious process you don't think about. Especially once you've played yourself in and gotten used to the bounce in the pitch. This is why I don't think some footwork assistance/margin for error would be dumbing it down too much, especially if you based the level of assistance on the attributes of the batsman, how settled they are, whether they've been hit by a short one, how predictable the bounce is from the pitch etc.

 

[FollowOn]

Part of the problem with judging length is the lack of depth perception because it's a 2D image of a 3D environment. A ball that seems to be falling faster could mean two things - it's shorter, or it has more pace, same with the opposite; a full ball can be mistaken for a slower one because it doesn't fall as quickly.

The only things I can think of to pick up on this (other than the HUD helpers) are the size of the ball on the screen (closer = bigger), the shadow cast by the ball or slight visual differences in the trajectory between slower and fuller balls. With enough practice you can improve at seeing the signs that are there to judge the length, some people more than others, but there are limitations which mean it's much harder than real life even with the coloured indicators enabled.

Spatial awareness, depth perception and muscle memory/reflexes all help out the reaction to use your feet and get yourself balanced for the length of the ball and it almost becomes a subconscious process you don't think about. Especially once you've played yourself in and gotten used to the bounce in the pitch. This is why I don't think some footwork assistance/margin for error wouldn't be dumbing it down too much, especially if you based the level of assistance on the attributes of the batsman, how settled they are, whether they've been hit by a short one, how predictable the bounce is from the pitch etc.

Very thoughtful post I really appreciate it but that is really not the solution. The real problem is simultaneous processing one for line and one for length which human mind hardly able to. Otherwise color indicators are enough for length prediction (just try yourself without worrying for the line you will be successful 9/10 times)

 

[sami ullah khan]

A solution that comes to mind is why the color can't stay instead of disappearing in a flash. This will make the game arcady but it can help less gifted players like myself. What I am proposing is that colored ring around the short ball/full ball will stay until the ball hits/misses the bat.

 

[FollowOn]

Good point about MLB, i.e., in baseball it's mostly about judging the line and not the length. As for making auto-selection for footwork, that will take out a huge part out of batting. The fundamental part of batting is to judge line & length and if that part is made automatic, it will take away from batting as it will be no different from batting with pre-meditation. Currently we pre-meditate while batting but using auto selection, AI would be the one performing that pre-meditation role.

If you guys have noticed there are at least 3 animations for every shot in order to accommodate different lengths and the AI already selects the best shot for you for the given length so it is very much like inferior version of auto foot selection so technically there is no harm in auto foot selection when it is already present in the game in a subtle way.

 

[Snowy]

We know Ross is very much inspired by MLB games behind batter view but the thing is it worked for MLB because user only has one thing to concentrate i-e direction of the ball but in DBC one has to pick length as well as direction which is where the problem lies because most human minds are not capable of parallel processing but if BAS is really insisted in using this system then kindly allow Auto Foot Selection option for all difficulty levels that way it will be very similar to MLB because user will only have to worry for the direction and it will be as fun as MLB games , Also kindly use the realistic bowling speed because the thrill of facing real fast bowler in pro mode is missing in this game Also i don't think any one will complain about fast bowling speed with the auto foot selection option there helping them)
Just give it a whack mate in the next update and see peoples opinion on it.

Complete nonsense. If every pitch in baseball was a fast ball at waist height you'd be correct - but they're not, and you're not. You have to take into account pitch speed, pitch variation (curves, slurves, changeups, different fast balls, sliders) - not simply 'direction'. Taking into account multiple variables for a pitch (location/speed/game situation) is no different to taking into account multiple variables for a cricket delivery (line/length/speed/game situation) That's why no baseball game does something as dumb as producing a realistic pitch speed. If I was Big Ant, I'd be discounting anyone with the opinion that baseball is just about picking up the direction - it shows a fundamental lack of understanding for inputs that go into the hitting mechanics.

The assertion that they can just 'give it a whack' in the next update is ridiculous as it changes the game mechanics upon which the system was developed. The implication they can just add it in is insulting to the amount of work that has been invested in the current system for '14 and '17. They're 'obsessed' with the current system because they've invested time into developing something that breaks away from the traditional convention of the pitch marker, and it works. DBC17 is an evolution of that existing system - not a complete overhaul.

The real problem is simultaneous processing one for line and one for length which human mind hardly able to.

Your human mind is unable to do it - others are perfectly capable. The sooner you comprehend this, the sooner you'll realise a complete overhaul of the existing system isn't going to happen. Didn't you only play DBC14 for 10 hours or something?

 

[LittleBigPlanet]

@Madman I think the intricacies about light and shade your talking about, are possibly the key details in depth perception- therefore I propose an exaggerated ball colour (fluorescence) and\or rescaling HUD size around the ball, too bigger HUD around the ball is just more clutter and distraction- in line with the general consensus that without ball HUD on, its indeed making a subltle improvement of sorts!

 

[FollowOn]

Complete nonsense. If every pitch in baseball was a fast ball at waist height you'd be correct - but they're not, and you're not. You have to take into account pitch speed, pitch variation (curves, slurves, changeups, different fast balls, sliders) - not simply 'direction'. Taking into account multiple variables for a pitch (location/speed/game situation) is no different to taking into account multiple variables for a cricket delivery (line/length/speed/game situation) That's why no baseball game does something as dumb as producing a realistic pitch speed. If I was Big Ant, I'd be discounting anyone with the opinion that baseball is just about picking up the direction - it shows a fundamental lack of understanding for inputs that go into the hitting mechanics.

The assertion that they can just 'give it a whack' in the next update is ridiculous as it changes the game mechanics upon which the system was developed. The implication they can just add it in is insulting to the amount of work that has been invested in the current system for '14 and '17. They're 'obsessed' with the current system because they've invested time into developing something that breaks away from the traditional convention of the pitch marker, and it works. DBC17 is an evolution of that existing system - not a complete overhaul.



Your human mind is unable to do it - others are perfectly capable. The sooner you comprehend this, the sooner you'll realise a complete overhaul of the existing system isn't going to happen. Didn't you only play DBC14 for 10 hours or something?

I deliberately used the word direction just for the sake of simplicity of sounding like one variable because it is indeed the final direction/location of the ball you have to predict which is much easier then predicting the final location of a cricket ball because of the two way process of line and length, actually you are terribly stupid saying that most human can do parallel processing, just use Google to get your facts right before posting rubbish.

 

[Snowy]

I deliberately used the word direction just for the sake of simplicity of sounding like one variable because it is indeed the final direction/location of the ball you have to predict which is much easier then predicting the final location of a cricket ball because of the two way process of line and length, actually you are terribly stupid saying that most human can do parallel processing, just use Google to get your facts right before posting rubbish.

How about you aim for accuracy instead of simplicity then. How is line/length any different to line/height?

And I don't believe I said most humans. I said others can, most importantly, the people developing the game. Care to address the key point rather than go on personal attacks?

 

[FollowOn]

Multitasking Damages Your Brain And Career, New Studies Suggest

 

[FollowOn]

How about you aim for accuracy instead of simplicity then. How is line/length any different to line/height?

And I don't believe I said most humans. I said others can, most importantly, the people developing the game. Care to address the key point rather than go on personal attacks?

Lol mate you must be joking when you say line and height are equal to line and pitching, they are polar opposite because in cricket the ball cones from certain height dips down and then gain a new height which is much more complicated than simply predicting final location of the ball in baseball

 

[Snowy]

Multitasking Damages Your Brain And Career, New Studies Suggest

I'll repeat - care to address the key point that a fundamental overhaul of the core mechanics isn't going to change?

A two paragraph article, not related to video games. Wonderful. If you're considering picking up line and length to be multi-tasking, then wouldn't you be multitasking by pressing input on your controller at the same time as looking at a pitchmarker? Watching a screen and using a controller is multitasking. What is your actual point here?

Lol mate you must be joking when you say line and height are equal to line and pitching, they are polar opposite because in cricket the ball cones from certain height dips down and then gain a new height which is much more complicated than simply predicting final location of the ball in baseball

Not joking at all. Because I'm not looking at the ball going down and going back up - I'm looking at the tweaking indicator that tells me what length it is going to be. We're talking about video games here. And as an aside, the height of a baseball can change too (and in some cases, to a greater degree than a cricket delivery e.g. knuckeball or curve balls - which are translated well to video games)

Perhaps you're struggling with the current system because you simply don't understand the mechanics behind it.

 

[FollowOn]

I am not the only one struggling here so there has to be some viable solution to pick up length correctly, let's hope Ross having some plans regarding this

 

[blockerdave]

Multitasking Damages Your Brain And Career, New Studies Suggest

You are embarrassing yourself. Multi-tasking is not procesessing multiple inputs at the same time, it is doing more than one task at the same time. If the brain could not process line and length of an object in motion, nobody could catch, dodge something thrown at them etc.

I don't disagree that a solution to help with earlier length determination would be very useful. However:

• The game doing footwork for us at all levels is an awful idea. Especially in conjunction with increasing pace - the whole point of the pressure of facing a fast bowler is you might go forward to one that rears off a length and you get clouted
• Ross has said that accessibility is one of the main internal goals of the DBC17 team - lets see what they come up with before ripping up the game mechanics
• The premeditation issue is over blown. Batting is about looking for an area to score based on the field - if the ball suits that go with it if not try and defend or switch the shot. That takes some practise but it is doable. The going through with the planned shot is as much a mental block in the player as a function of the game mechanics. How many times do you "premeditate" the perfect shot to the last ball?
• Cricketers premeditate all the time. Look at Jos Buttler - he can go from looking a superstar or a prize plum based on whether the ball bowled suits his premeditated shot. I would say he is an extreme example but it still holds
• Certain shots such as reverse sweep or advance are nearly always premeditated in real life

 

[FollowOn]

^Actually picking line and length at the same is multitasking because you are giving input to controller for two different tast (Foot selection and Shot Selection) if you are still not believing then try yourself tackling line and length in isolation , trust me you will get it right more than 90% of times.

Changing in bowling animation for a short pitch delivery is another viable option I can think of giving length earlier.

 

[BittuGamz]

^Actually picking line and length at the same is multitasking because you are giving input to controller for two different tast (Foot selection and Shot Selection) if you are still not believing then try yourself tackling line and length in isolation , trust me you will get it right more than 90% of times.

Changing in bowling animation for a short pitch delivery is another viable option I can think of giving length earlier.

Thats a good idea...small visible change in bowler action for slow and short pitch deliveries will be nice.