South Africa in England July-Sept 2012

[StinkyBoHoon]

It seems to be a popular yet pointless exercise/way of saying people rate him, when in truth he is probably rated where he is and those talking of "under-rated" and "over-rated" are just pushing to gain support in their high or low rating of a player.

I don't really agree that the concept of under-rated/over-rated is empty. very often people make prejudgements about players based on misleading things, especially in cricket were we quite often assume better average = better player.

Also you see people get all excited about bowlers that can bowl fast or perhaps people assuming stereotypes of nationalities hold true (west indians bowl really fast, indians can't play the short ball but play spin well, etc) and then you get the sheer force of the media behind players. english, indian and australian players get the bulk of media coverage, whether it be positive or negative, and that can play a part.

so yeah, sometimes I think you do get players that are held in higher or lower regard depending on their circumstances.

However for what it's worth I don't think Kallis is as good a bowler as some people say. his stats do look quite massaged by a bit of minnow bashing. five 5-fers in his career, 2 v bng, 2 v west indies and 1 against england, and BNG, the windies and zim are the only teams he bowls under his career average. not saying he's rubbish, his numbers are alright but his average of 32 isn't that representative.

 

[Owzat]

I don't really agree that the concept of under-rated/over-rated is empty. very often people make prejudgements about players based on misleading things, especially in cricket were we quite often assume better average = better player.

Also you see people get all excited about bowlers that can bowl fast or perhaps people assuming stereotypes of nationalities hold true (west indians bowl really fast, indians can't play the short ball but play spin well, etc) and then you get the sheer force of the media behind players. english, indian and australian players get the bulk of media coverage, whether it be positive or negative, and that can play a part.

so yeah, sometimes I think you do get players that are held in higher or lower regard depending on their circumstances.

However for what it's worth I don't think Kallis is as good a bowler as some people say. his stats do look quite massaged by a bit of minnow bashing. five 5-fers in his career, 2 v bng, 2 v west indies and 1 against england, and BNG, the windies and zim are the only teams he bowls under his career average. not saying he's rubbish, his numbers are alright but his average of 32 isn't that representative.

In the last part you've demonstrated EXACTLY what I was saying, some say he is under-rated, others say he is over-rated - or in your words "I don't think Kallis is as good a bowler as some people say" which is the same thing - and the net effect is that over-rated BY WHOSE JUDGEMENT.

Therein lies the whole point, in a briefer version. For someone to over-rate or under-rate someone it has to be compared to a rating - but whose? By dint of the fact some say he is over-rated, some under-rated it is a pointless concept because you are taking an arbitrary point of comparison and probably just reacting to what someone else (one or not many) said....................

And you most certainly can't quote stats when also citing non-specific "over-rated" and "under-rated" terminology, that's just going beyond silly. We then get into the territory of "is better than" or "isn't as good as" his stats.....................

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South Africa are putting England's efforts early yesterday to shame. From a good position we tossed it away, if South Africa don't throw their wickets away then we could be in for a long spell in the field.

I (still) back the draw, for South Africa to get a decent lead will take them into tomorrow surely and my general rule of thumb is you need to have both 1st innings done (most of the time) by the end of the third day, exceptions withstanding eg collapses, one side making a massive total to kill the game etc

 

[puddleduck]

Why would you try and make Kallis bowl more? He doesn't really enjoy it and just look at Freddie and other all-rounders who end up struggling for fitness and consistent form.

He's one of the best batsman of his generation, and with a steady stream of fast bowling talent there has been no need to make him bowl more. So narrow minded sometimes it's ridiculous

The guy has 300 test wickets at 32. This is without ever getting the new ball, without getting first dibs at the tail enders, without getting to bowl whenever the ball is perfect or the pressure at it's highest. Yet still he has taken 300 test wickets. He has a very good bouncer and is a far better bowler than someone like Shane Watson.

Agreed on Ravi yet again. The guy is not good enough for test cricket. He can score scratchy 50's when he gets to bat in the middle overs of ODI cricket, but he's nowhere near being a test batsman unless the bowling attack is crap or the fielders can't catch.

 

[barmyarmy]

Should have played Finn tbh. Doesn't really look like Strauss expects Bres to take wickets.

 

[puddleduck]

It is actually starting to annoy me that they keep leaving him out. He bowls as well (if not better) than most of the attack each time and keeps getting left out. He's worked on his accuracy and pace. He's gone to India and done well. He's a genuine wicket taking strike bowler.

 

[puddleduck]

Is there a reason we haven't targetted Smith from around the wicket with balls that start wide of off stump and move away before attacking his pads?

Worked for Zaheer almost every time (I realise he's a left-armer) but bowling right-arm over on his legstump is what Smith tucks away every day of the week.

 

[cricket_icon]

It is actually starting to annoy me that they keep leaving him out. He bowls as well (if not better) than most of the attack each time and keeps getting left out. He's worked on his accuracy and pace. He's gone to India and done well. He's a genuine wicket taking strike bowler.

I couldn't agree more. I've championed Finn in the ODI format and after recent form, I'd have him in the team over Bresnan. Bopara is a decent enough bat, we don't need Bresnan that low down. Finn should be in, he is a strike bowler and fiery too when he wants to be.

Having said that, Smith and Amla took the game away from England. I've rated the saffers captain as one of the best openers in the game and he just proved why. Amla on the other hand, in terms of his stroke play, is in a class of his own. He reminds me a bit of Mohammad Yusuf (not just the beard lol). Their cover drives are immaculate. Add Vaughn to that list.

 

[shravi]

Either I have been asleep for this entire Kallis-Amla partnership or I have seen all of it but remember none of it.

Smith's duel with Swann was fascinating. In general, the Smith-Amla partnership was much more interesting. Looks like an innings defeat for England or the more probable result- a draw.

 

[nelson111]

Hello lads. Mickey Mouse apologises for his non-appearance in this test match. Says that England are gonna have to do this one all by themselves.

Just have one question - how come on day one (when England got 270 odd for 3) South Africa "didn't turn up", and on day two when we eventually "turned up" the pitch was crap, but today the pitch is beautiful??

Hey Sedition, if you're out there which I'm sure you are, did you catch the Reds / Sharks game today?? It seems that the unpopular, unsporting Jaapies gave you a good klap, which is all well and good in itself but did you notice the reaction of the self righteous, holier than thou, go you good things? Worthy of convicts wouldn't you say?

 

[puddleduck]

I didn't realise that was the case?

Oh and the English press is retarded, so the whole SA didn't turn up on day 1 of a test match when their opponents are 260-3 on a road is yet more poor journalism. South Africa looking a class above England and it's unsurprisingly the batting that differentiates the two teams. Most of England's success has come from their bowlers finding ways to take 20 wickets, but rarely has the batting given them a particularly great platform since Australia away/India at home.

Ravi is one of the worst Test middle order batsman in the top 5 teams and Strauss is still a walking wicket against any top class bowling attacks.

 

[nelson111]

"317 for 1 on the day for South Africa, if you were England you were just fetching leather!"

Quote from our TV team. No excuses, just business as usual!

 

[puddleduck]

Good point as well made on Tv that when games are close, what does Strauss bring? He's a great captain when he can just leave his bowlers to take 20 wickets, but you never feel his input has brought about a wicket. The fields are always rigidly set, the plans are basic. It's always as if stifling the batsman doesn't work, he has no other option. He looks to cut off runs and boundaries far too early in batsman's innings.

Anyway, this is South Africa's to win from here, and with more sun tomorrow, they must be aiming to bat well past lunch and let AB really push the scoring rate up later in the day.

 

[angryangy]

Highlight: Strauss throwing the ball through his own sunglasses.

 

[barmyarmy]

We've kind of been threatening to have a bowling mare for a while. We consistently failed to put the Windies away and that was on a more bowler-friendly pitches.
380 was clearly under par but the bowling hasn't really been as good as it should have been.

 

[venom2011]

Well this was bound to happen with the English media over-hyping the England bowling unit. Anderson looks about the only real threat and only with the new ball. Swann still has a touch of class, but he struggles against right-handers and against SA unfortunately he faces 3 of the best players of spin in Amla, Kallis and AB....all right-handers.