TAOC Discussion
- Thread starter legend_master
- Start date
jkartik
Chairman of Selectors
ZoraxDoom said:The batting sounds great
ANd Jk_14, only on Hero Honda bat!:
hmm... can you be more clear on what exactly you want to say !
dobbo2k4
Club Cricketer
Have to say LM and co this game is looking great so far. Keep up the good work
Gr8 work with the power bar. But i noticed some technical glitch with it and i want to notify.As a cricket player, to get a ball to or above the boundary we need to pick the line and length very early and hit (so greater chances of getting out), and wait as long as possible to defend(allows more time for batsman to see the ball hence less risky). But in the power shot i saw that u have to press the switch as early as possible to reduce the power and wait a long time or press longer to get the power . So technically i guess, u have to reverse the order. Like pressing the bar quickly will provide more power but more risky and waiting longer or keep on pressing the switch for longer to reduce the power, hence less risky. I guess u know what i am talking about.
legend_master
The Art of Cricket Developer
video video video
Ok, heaps of stuff to discuss and clear up here, with the new video releases....Das_vicky makes an excellent point here, and i wanted to discuss this in detail before moving on...ps: if you haven't seen the videos yet none of this will make any sense, so watch them!
>Gr8 work with the power bar. But i noticed some technical glitch with it and i want to notify.As a cricket player, to get a ball to or above the boundary we need to pick the line and length very early and hit (so greater chances of getting out), and wait as long >as possible to defend(allows more time for batsman to see the ball hence less risky). But in the power shot i saw that u have to press the switch as early as possible to reduce the power and wait a long time or press longer to get the power . So technically i >guess, u have to reverse the order. Like pressing the bar quickly will provide more power but more risky and waiting longer or keep on pressing the switch for longer to reduce the power, hence less risky. I guess u know what i am talking about.
Das, you are completely correct. I was going to reverse the power bar as you suggest, but i didn't as there are pros and cons for both systems....it's really hard to choose which one is best and most intuitive. Your way would make it seem harder to time a 6hit, but here me out on the way i have it, because although it seems opposite to what you suggest, it actually is doing what happens in real life (but in a seemingly opposite way - this is getting confusing isn't it? But stay with me here)...with the current way, by having the block at the start of the power bar (i.e. a quick button tap/press), what i am doing is allowing you to watch the ball right up until it gets to you before you tap the button to block it - it also makes it a kind of default if you are very very late in pushing the button...by making the 6hit at the high end of the power bar, you have to almost 'pre-meditate' the shot (picking up the line and length early and already deciding to go for a big hit) and power up so that you will will swing with full power in time for when the ball reaches you. Do you agree? Well, both ways seem viable to me, so i am going to try the 'reverse' power bar like your method suggests and see if it is in fact more realistic...in any case guys, nothing is set in stone yet...this power bar you see in the videos is still only a prototype and proof of concept, so it doesn't mean what you see here is the final product. This is great feedback though and something I am definately concerned about, as batting enjoyment is a MAJOR part of a cricket game. What does everyone else think?
The other thing i was going to add to the power bar if it remains as is, i.e. block at the lower end and 6hit at the top end, is a 'chaos zone' - imagine the power bar on a percentage level...let's say hitting a six is somewhere up around 93-98 (ignore other factors that influence power for this example)...then 99-100 could be the 'chaos zone' meaning anything could happen e.g. edge, leading edge, skying the ball, etc...this wouldn't be the only way of getting edges etc. but is more a deterrent for people to try to hit sixes all the time, cos if you slightly mistime it, then you lose control over the shot and anything could happen...well, this is just an idea...any comments on this?
Dhruvdeepak wrote:
>i really appreciate the pains you're taking to explain everything you're doing, and the work done so far in itself. This is like anti-establishment stuff.
>I have a couple of questions:
>Does it require some skill to time the powerbar? I.e. does your timing determine how well you play the shot? Or is there another element to the game, like how you press the other buttons?
>Can you position the batsman wherever you want, like move him left, right, up or down?
>Also, could you elaborate a bit on the random chaos . I love the concept in theory though
Well, firstly, yes, it does take skill to time it. There are several factors that all come into play when batting in the game....i) moving the batsman (footwork) during the bowler run-up right up until the ball reaches you ii) pushing the button for front foot or back foot iii) pushing the direction / type of shot button which brings up the power bar. You do have to time the power bar...collisions are pretty accurate so if the ball hits your bat then you do connect with the ball. So if you swing too early you will miss it, simple as that
There are also different collision zones on the bat so it knows where the ball hit the bat, this affects various things including timing and edges etc Now, it's not just all based on timing, there are several other factors - batsman skill level (batsmen have skill ratings for each individual shot type), type of shot being played vs type of ball being bowled, bowler skill level for delivery he bowled, spin on ball etc AND random chaos....which brings me to my next point....in real life there is always an element of random chaos. What this means is no 2 bowls / shots will be exactly the same - even if you time everything exactly the same with the power bar and same shot against the same ball etc. then it should be exactly the same result, because nothing can ever be exactly the same...you forearm may be slightly off position by 1mm anyway, there is always going to be a random element to everything, in varying degrees, as i want the game to never feel 'scripted' - i want to feel like no 2 shots are ever the same...now, this is a computer simulation of a real life sport, so complete unlimited variety is impossible, but we can simulate that by making it 'close to unlimited', so much so that it gives the appearance of being unlimited
Now, about the videos i uploaded...again, remember the quality is low because it is compressed down from 70-90MB files to 1-2MB each! Also, there are several glitches you may or may not notice - do not be alarmed, i can see these too and i am going to fix them asap, but i simply ran out of time last night and i wanted to get these videos released...the bugs are gonna take some time to iron out so i thought i'd release them as is. But it should at least give you an indication of the power bar system and lofted shots physics etc. You can see the differences between blocks, chips, sixes and driving....now, remember this is all using the one button, i.e. Num2....i have not yet implemented front foot / back foot so these 3 shots are only front foot straight shots e.g. straight block, straight drive and straight loft. Also remember it's still early in development so the final product will be much more improved and polished than this. Oh yeah, ignore the debug text as well....
let me know your feedback though, as i want to get people's opinion on all of this...if everyone thinks something is bad then there's likely a good case to change things...so constructive criticism is what i'm after.
* edit - forgot to mention that all of the bowling in the video is spin (but no actual spin applied i.e. just straight) but i have not yet done the spin bowling animation, so dont be surprised by the ball just magically being bowled from nowhere and the bit where the bowler is standing at the start of his runup when the ball is bowled lol...this will be fixed once i have done the spin bowler...
regards,
LM :cool:
Ok, heaps of stuff to discuss and clear up here, with the new video releases....Das_vicky makes an excellent point here, and i wanted to discuss this in detail before moving on...ps: if you haven't seen the videos yet none of this will make any sense, so watch them!
>Gr8 work with the power bar. But i noticed some technical glitch with it and i want to notify.As a cricket player, to get a ball to or above the boundary we need to pick the line and length very early and hit (so greater chances of getting out), and wait as long >as possible to defend(allows more time for batsman to see the ball hence less risky). But in the power shot i saw that u have to press the switch as early as possible to reduce the power and wait a long time or press longer to get the power . So technically i >guess, u have to reverse the order. Like pressing the bar quickly will provide more power but more risky and waiting longer or keep on pressing the switch for longer to reduce the power, hence less risky. I guess u know what i am talking about.
Das, you are completely correct. I was going to reverse the power bar as you suggest, but i didn't as there are pros and cons for both systems....it's really hard to choose which one is best and most intuitive. Your way would make it seem harder to time a 6hit, but here me out on the way i have it, because although it seems opposite to what you suggest, it actually is doing what happens in real life (but in a seemingly opposite way - this is getting confusing isn't it? But stay with me here)...with the current way, by having the block at the start of the power bar (i.e. a quick button tap/press), what i am doing is allowing you to watch the ball right up until it gets to you before you tap the button to block it - it also makes it a kind of default if you are very very late in pushing the button...by making the 6hit at the high end of the power bar, you have to almost 'pre-meditate' the shot (picking up the line and length early and already deciding to go for a big hit) and power up so that you will will swing with full power in time for when the ball reaches you. Do you agree? Well, both ways seem viable to me, so i am going to try the 'reverse' power bar like your method suggests and see if it is in fact more realistic...in any case guys, nothing is set in stone yet...this power bar you see in the videos is still only a prototype and proof of concept, so it doesn't mean what you see here is the final product. This is great feedback though and something I am definately concerned about, as batting enjoyment is a MAJOR part of a cricket game. What does everyone else think?
The other thing i was going to add to the power bar if it remains as is, i.e. block at the lower end and 6hit at the top end, is a 'chaos zone' - imagine the power bar on a percentage level...let's say hitting a six is somewhere up around 93-98 (ignore other factors that influence power for this example)...then 99-100 could be the 'chaos zone' meaning anything could happen e.g. edge, leading edge, skying the ball, etc...this wouldn't be the only way of getting edges etc. but is more a deterrent for people to try to hit sixes all the time, cos if you slightly mistime it, then you lose control over the shot and anything could happen...well, this is just an idea...any comments on this?
Dhruvdeepak wrote:
>i really appreciate the pains you're taking to explain everything you're doing, and the work done so far in itself. This is like anti-establishment stuff.
>I have a couple of questions:
>Does it require some skill to time the powerbar? I.e. does your timing determine how well you play the shot? Or is there another element to the game, like how you press the other buttons?
>Can you position the batsman wherever you want, like move him left, right, up or down?
>Also, could you elaborate a bit on the random chaos . I love the concept in theory though
Well, firstly, yes, it does take skill to time it. There are several factors that all come into play when batting in the game....i) moving the batsman (footwork) during the bowler run-up right up until the ball reaches you ii) pushing the button for front foot or back foot iii) pushing the direction / type of shot button which brings up the power bar. You do have to time the power bar...collisions are pretty accurate so if the ball hits your bat then you do connect with the ball. So if you swing too early you will miss it, simple as that
There are also different collision zones on the bat so it knows where the ball hit the bat, this affects various things including timing and edges etc Now, it's not just all based on timing, there are several other factors - batsman skill level (batsmen have skill ratings for each individual shot type), type of shot being played vs type of ball being bowled, bowler skill level for delivery he bowled, spin on ball etc AND random chaos....which brings me to my next point....in real life there is always an element of random chaos. What this means is no 2 bowls / shots will be exactly the same - even if you time everything exactly the same with the power bar and same shot against the same ball etc. then it should be exactly the same result, because nothing can ever be exactly the same...you forearm may be slightly off position by 1mm anyway, there is always going to be a random element to everything, in varying degrees, as i want the game to never feel 'scripted' - i want to feel like no 2 shots are ever the same...now, this is a computer simulation of a real life sport, so complete unlimited variety is impossible, but we can simulate that by making it 'close to unlimited', so much so that it gives the appearance of being unlimitedNow, about the videos i uploaded...again, remember the quality is low because it is compressed down from 70-90MB files to 1-2MB each! Also, there are several glitches you may or may not notice - do not be alarmed, i can see these too and i am going to fix them asap, but i simply ran out of time last night and i wanted to get these videos released...the bugs are gonna take some time to iron out so i thought i'd release them as is. But it should at least give you an indication of the power bar system and lofted shots physics etc. You can see the differences between blocks, chips, sixes and driving....now, remember this is all using the one button, i.e. Num2....i have not yet implemented front foot / back foot so these 3 shots are only front foot straight shots e.g. straight block, straight drive and straight loft. Also remember it's still early in development so the final product will be much more improved and polished than this. Oh yeah, ignore the debug text as well....
let me know your feedback though, as i want to get people's opinion on all of this...if everyone thinks something is bad then there's likely a good case to change things...so constructive criticism is what i'm after.
* edit - forgot to mention that all of the bowling in the video is spin (but no actual spin applied i.e. just straight) but i have not yet done the spin bowling animation, so dont be surprised by the ball just magically being bowled from nowhere and the bit where the bowler is standing at the start of his runup when the ball is bowled lol...this will be fixed once i have done the spin bowler...
regards,
LM :cool:
Last edited:
dhruvdeepak
School Cricketer
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2004
- Online Cricket Games Owned
LM, i think your original powerbar setup is more intuitive, as you explained it. i like the chaos zone idea, extremely well thought!
the video was great, showed us what to expect, this was just one type of shot (i think) and so many different possibilities.
the video was great, showed us what to expect, this was just one type of shot (i think) and so many different possibilities.
Yeah, your initial setup with the power bar makes a lot of sense, and seems very intuitive. Perhaps with your chaos zone idea, the size could be altered for different batting abilities, such as, eg, Glenn McGrath's chaos zone would be huge compared to Sachin Tendulkar's. Perhaps also, there could be a chaos zone for the defense zone, and normal shot zone, and the lofted zone. For instance, if the bar stops on the edge of the green/blue zones, then it is as if the batsmen is in two minds over whether to defend or drive, for instance, and such plays a "half-shot". Do you get what I mean? Perhaps this would make it too complicated or too difficult, but you do see often in international cricket the batsmen in two minds, and I thought that might be an interesting way of including this?
legend_master
The Art of Cricket Developer
thanks for the feedback....the forum's been a bit dead for a while, very little feedback on the video, so good to hear your comments...
yeah, i think i will keep the power bar like it is, i quite like it this way...i wanted to make it intuitive and fluent and not too complicated with heaps of button combos, yet still wanted it to require skill, timing and allow for complex combinations all at the same time. Hopefully i've managed to pull that off
I did get some comments though that maybe it should be inverted so that the power meter rises from bottom to top rather than from top to bottom direction - anyone got any strong comments on this idea?
@Dhruvdeepak - this was one direction, 3 types of shot....Front foot block, front foot straight drive and straight lofted...there will be approximately 35 different shots available but because of the engine the amount of outcomes from those strokes is effectively unlimited i.e. no 2 shots will end up with exactly the same result
@Propmanoz - there are some excellent ideas there...i definately think it should vary according to the batsman, though dont forget every batsman has graded stats for each type of stroke, so Glenn McGrath will be crap at most strokes anyway, but yeah, i really like that idea.
The other thing i am thinking to implement is a last minute 'blocking override' - which you can use as a last resort e.g. you change your mind at the last minute, or you accidentally go into the next zone when you wanted to do a block but becuase you went into the 'blue' zone it would come out as a drive for example. With the override you could tap the same button again before the ball has reached you and he would attempt to make a last minute change of mind and block - what do you think about this idea? It may turn out to be impractical and is not essential, i just thought it might add a little something cool to it...comments?
* ive spent the last couple of nights fixing some bugs with the batting physics...has been really difficult, but i've almost fixed them all...really crucial that this is sorted now, as the physics to me are the biggest factor of the game that must be perfect....so unfortunately not too much visible progress to show you all, but trust me, the bugs ive been fixing could have grown into massive annoyances!!
LM
yeah, i think i will keep the power bar like it is, i quite like it this way...i wanted to make it intuitive and fluent and not too complicated with heaps of button combos, yet still wanted it to require skill, timing and allow for complex combinations all at the same time. Hopefully i've managed to pull that off
I did get some comments though that maybe it should be inverted so that the power meter rises from bottom to top rather than from top to bottom direction - anyone got any strong comments on this idea?
@Dhruvdeepak - this was one direction, 3 types of shot....Front foot block, front foot straight drive and straight lofted...there will be approximately 35 different shots available but because of the engine the amount of outcomes from those strokes is effectively unlimited i.e. no 2 shots will end up with exactly the same result
@Propmanoz - there are some excellent ideas there...i definately think it should vary according to the batsman, though dont forget every batsman has graded stats for each type of stroke, so Glenn McGrath will be crap at most strokes anyway, but yeah, i really like that idea.
The other thing i am thinking to implement is a last minute 'blocking override' - which you can use as a last resort e.g. you change your mind at the last minute, or you accidentally go into the next zone when you wanted to do a block but becuase you went into the 'blue' zone it would come out as a drive for example. With the override you could tap the same button again before the ball has reached you and he would attempt to make a last minute change of mind and block - what do you think about this idea? It may turn out to be impractical and is not essential, i just thought it might add a little something cool to it...comments?
* ive spent the last couple of nights fixing some bugs with the batting physics...has been really difficult, but i've almost fixed them all...really crucial that this is sorted now, as the physics to me are the biggest factor of the game that must be perfect....so unfortunately not too much visible progress to show you all, but trust me, the bugs ive been fixing could have grown into massive annoyances!!
LM
legend_master
The Art of Cricket Developer
Update!
UPDATE
- I have fixed the little glitches i mentioned, which i am very happy about :happy ...the physics are soooo much better now....before i couldn't put my finger on it, but something was bugging me about how the ball was moving...and i was right...there were a few bugs that i had overlooked. Well, all fixed now and I am really quite blown away with how cool the batting physics feels now....and for all those guys saying "why dont we just hit sixes all the time?", good luck! It's actually very difficult to time the power bar for shots other than blocks, so the easier the kind of shot you want to play, the easier it is to time. What this means is more realism, more singles and 2's with a realistic amount of 4's and 6's...i'm not going to have the cpu rescue your batsman if you swing way too early...you will be bowled
So, now it's on to completing the 'Chaos zones', edges, mishits and the rest of the batting strokes / animations...it's starting to get exciting now....
Das,
you are right, but i'm going to invert it and see how it feels - whichever feels more natural and intuitive will win out...but i have definately had overwhelming support for the power bar going from bottom to top.
LM
UPDATE
- I have fixed the little glitches i mentioned, which i am very happy about :happy ...the physics are soooo much better now....before i couldn't put my finger on it, but something was bugging me about how the ball was moving...and i was right...there were a few bugs that i had overlooked. Well, all fixed now and I am really quite blown away with how cool the batting physics feels now....and for all those guys saying "why dont we just hit sixes all the time?", good luck! It's actually very difficult to time the power bar for shots other than blocks, so the easier the kind of shot you want to play, the easier it is to time. What this means is more realism, more singles and 2's with a realistic amount of 4's and 6's...i'm not going to have the cpu rescue your batsman if you swing way too early...you will be bowled
So, now it's on to completing the 'Chaos zones', edges, mishits and the rest of the batting strokes / animations...it's starting to get exciting now....
Das,
you are right, but i'm going to invert it and see how it feels - whichever feels more natural and intuitive will win out...but i have definately had overwhelming support for the power bar going from bottom to top.
LM
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