The state of off-spin bowling/suspect actions/doosra bowlers worldwide

[abhi_jacko]

BCCI is clearly training the umpires to be very strict with bowling actions. Apparently they are very keen on weeding out faulty actions and instead of calling shenanigans, we should actually give them credit for this.

They even "attacked" someone like Ojha who once upon a time used to be one of the main spin options for us - eventually banned him from playing Ranji Trophy as well until his action is cleared.

 

[War]

like big three but nothing strange in that just grabbing more power along with eng and aus, stand against Drs would be highly debatable.

As been discussed before in other threads when the Big three rumours were taking shape ENG & AUS who were opponents of BCCI before joining them in takeover, would not have joined if it wasn't for the realities of world cricket dynamics since the BCCI money started influencing everything.

So essentially as we all know most of cricket problems can be traced back to BCCI influence over an already lame duck ICC.

this is the first tournament i guess he is playing outside WI after being called in clt20, if trinidad umpires were going to call him they would have done so before clt20 itself, i would say he always appears fine in their books. Frankly he looks fine to me on screen clean action but maybe umpires are seeing something when he is under pressure. anyway its the same bcci committee with srinath vengsarkar that cleared him recently, so wouldn't it look bad on them to accuse so quickly back if it was bcci thing.

The best conspiracy i can think of is some sort of way to hurt KKR's chances but it didn't bother them last time and seems too fickle to go through all the trouble.

So cant see any real motive for bcci to target a player...they have nothing to gain from it! I think its purely umpires thing that's going on.

I never understand this blame the BCCI game. If something weird happens, it is BCCI's fault. There is no reason for BCCI to target Sunil Narine. I personally don't find anything wrong with Narine's action but they have reported him with not just one delivery but more then 3 to 4 deliveries. They have allowed Sunil Narine to have the footage of those deliveries so he can see the flaw in action, remodel it and come back again. If you have noticed, KKR and especially Gambhir has backed Narine all the way since he was reported for the first time last year. They are taking every possible step to make sure he is there playing cricket. That statement that you made just seems like something that a silly Pakistan fan on Facebook would write who blames BCCI for anything that happens in the world cricket. I would not make any assumption until I have full facts about the incident.

Maybe KKR as defending champions are simply doing all they can to defend him because he is their prized asset in winning the dull IPL.

WI domestic umpires are not just from Trinidad, but different caribbean islands

While I would concede somewhat on initial conspiracy suggest towards BCCI in this case, I don't believe their dubious track record allows me or any cricket fan to seriously rule out the assumption at this stage of limited facts.

 

[War]

I really hope he is done and dusted. Has always ignored national duty for the IPL he still has some age left in him but the type of man Clive Lloyd is cant see him returning to the WI team even.

The BCCI are a nasty bunch of people however I dont think they have total control of this situation, meaning Narine to me has always been questionable so if the BCCI are indeed conspiring to oust him from the game then kudos to them.

There is nothing worse than cheating in the game and this situation qualifies as such. Murali was allowed to do it for his career so we may think its okay but its not! The crack down on illegal bowlers is one of the best the ICC/BCCI have done in recent history.

@War the West Indians have had a history in the last couple of decades of having bowlers reported for foul actions on the international circuit Samuels, Lawson even suspected case of Dwight Washington (Marlon (@Samuels) would know of him) The bowling of Narine, particularly in the NAGICO final you speak of was highly suspect!

Well i know you have stated b4 you think Narine action was suspected, so won't go around in circles with that one.

Washington if i recall was just crap, I don't recall him ever being called. He just faded away because he was never international standard

Also its a bit oversimplistic to say Narine always ignores international duty for IPL - Eshan Mani describes the problem with WI & IPL best:

Cricket needs a strong West Indies team, says Mani | News | Cricket Blogs, Opinions & Analysis | Wisden India

“It is desperately sad to see that some of the West Indian players prefer to play in the IPL (Indian Premier League) and other T20 leagues around the world rather than for West Indies,” he said.

“This is simply because of money. This problem must be addressed. It is the responsibility of the ICC to ensure that the priority for players should be to play for their country before anything else.

“Cricket needs a strong West Indies team. Its first-class players need to be paid well to keep them in the game. They will require $30 million to $50 million more over the next eight years than what they will receive from the ICC and from the sale of their commercial rights.”

 

[Satan666]

Well i know you have stated b4 you think Narine action was suspected, so won't go around in circles with that one.

Washington if i recall was just crap, I don't recall him ever being called. He just faded away because he was never international standard

Also its a bit oversimplistic to say Narine always ignores international duty for IPL - Eshan Mani describes the problem with WI & IPL best:

Cricket needs a strong West Indies team, says Mani | News | Cricket Blogs, Opinions & Analysis | Wisden India

“It is desperately sad to see that some of the West Indian players prefer to play in the IPL (Indian Premier League) and other T20 leagues around the world rather than for West Indies,” he said.

“This is simply because of money. This problem must be addressed. It is the responsibility of the ICC to ensure that the priority for players should be to play for their country before anything else.

“Cricket needs a strong West Indies team. Its first-class players need to be paid well to keep them in the game. They will require $30 million to $50 million more over the next eight years than what they will receive from the ICC and from the sale of their commercial rights.”

Yeah thats the thing there remains a cloud of uncertainty with regards to Washington but his physique drew comparisons with Garner so i wont see he was total crap he lacked the pace however.

Narine if you would recall along with Pollard/Bravo turned down the offer made by the then Minister of Sports in Trinidad to show up in Trinidad colours for the last time the Red force were playing as a team in the IPL, and you of all people know how strong that Red Force Team was and how passionate the Trinis are with regards to T20 cricket! If thats nit ignoring national duty and showing zero patriotism I dont know what is!

I read that article by Mani. however if WI can sustain a strong team the English and Aussies will increase their tours overnight to the Caribbean, there are still many influential people in those countries living with the desire to see a strong WI outfit in the international circuit. The talent is their once they play to their true abilities the money will flow in, most of all WI have always been the second favourite for many Indians and those are the ones with the cash!

Anyways not everything is about money:

 

[abhi_jacko]

As been discussed before in other threads when the Big three rumours were taking shape ENG & AUS who were opponents of BCCI before joining them in takeover, would not have joined if it wasn't for the realities of world cricket dynamics since the BCCI money started influencing everything.

So essentially as we all know most of cricket problems can be traced back to BCCI influence over an already lame duck ICC.

If we are that interested in finding the "root cause", why not go further back and trace it down to what led to BCCI gaining so much power in the first place ? The overpowered ACB+ECB and their unfair treatment of the Asian bloc that panned over several decades The current circumstances are pretty much a chain reaction to all of that ..

Speculations and conspiracy theories are really fun and all, but there is a reason its got the word "theory" in it

And we still don't have any proof of the Big Three idea being a disaster as was predicted. Go ask the BD and Zim fans. Their teams have a packed calendar for the year. India will be playing both of them, which will essentially help them pay off the salaries. I still think Srini and Co. should be thrown out of the system, and nothing is perfect in the current setup, and we would be better off without the Big3 setup. But at the same time, credit where credit is due.

 

[Satan666]

If we are that interested in finding the "root cause", why not go further back and trace it down to what led to BCCI gaining so much power in the first place ? The overpowered ACB+ECB and their unfair treatment of the Asian bloc that panned over several decades The current circumstances are pretty much a chain reaction to all of that ..

Speculations and conspiracy theories are really fun and all, but there is a reason its got the word "theory" in it

And we still don't have any proof of the Big Three idea being a disaster as was predicted. Go ask the BD and Zim fans. Their teams have a packed calendar for the year. India will be playing both of them, which will essentially help them pay off the salaries. I still think Srini and Co. should be thrown out of the system, and nothing is perfect in the current setup, and we would be better off without the Big3 setup. But at the same time, credit where credit is due.

Tell me your views on the leadership style of Dhalmiya abhi, he seems okay to me has a clouded past but certainly a better human being than the Srinivasan?

 

[Aalay]

Maybe KKR as defending champions are simply doing all they can to defend him because he is their prized asset in winning the dull IPL.

WI domestic umpires are not just from Trinidad, but different caribbean islands

While I would concede somewhat on initial conspiracy suggest towards BCCI in this case, I don't believe their dubious track record allows me or any cricket fan to seriously rule out the assumption at this stage of limited facts.

Of course it is for that reason they are trying to help him but they still are making an effort which will benefit Narine at the end of the day. Yes, they might have been from all caribbean island but they are still West Indian. The match in which Narine was reported had an elite panel umpire and another internal umpire. Just because BCCI's previous record is dubious does not mean we blame them for everything wrong that is happening in the world cricket especially without any proof. I can easily make an "assumption" that Sunil Narine did chuck in the final of WI domestic T20 competition but was not reported because he is such an important asset to WI team in shorter formats. Now I don't have any proof to back it up so until I find one, I can't jut throw my assumption around based on not just limited facts but no facts at all.[DOUBLEPOST=1430150349][/DOUBLEPOST]

If we are that interested in finding the "root cause", why not go further back and trace it down to what led to BCCI gaining so much power in the first place ? The overpowered ACB+ECB and their unfair treatment of the Asian bloc that panned over several decades The current circumstances are pretty much a chain reaction to all of that ..

Oh no we can't go there, we just stick to the part where BCCI is a bully.[DOUBLEPOST=1430150435][/DOUBLEPOST]

Tell me your views on the leadership style of Dhalmiya abhi, he seems okay to me has a clouded past but certainly a better human being than the Srinivasan?

Posting a video that is completely irrelevant to the topic, you have performed your duty again sir! Have we renamed the thread as "I hate BCCI" yet?

 

[War]

If we are that interested in finding the "root cause", why not go further back and trace it down to what led to BCCI gaining so much power in the first place ? The overpowered ACB+ECB and their unfair treatment of the Asian bloc that panned over several decades The current circumstances are pretty much a chain reaction to all of that ..

Speculations and conspiracy theories are really fun and all, but there is a reason its got the word "theory" in it

And we still don't have any proof of the Big Three idea being a disaster as was predicted. Go ask the BD and Zim fans. Their teams have a packed calendar for the year. India will be playing both of them, which will essentially help them pay off the salaries. I still think Srini and Co. should be thrown out of the system, and nothing is perfect in the current setup, and we would be better off without the Big3 setup. But at the same time, credit where credit is due.

These are old debates my friend and I don't know if you were reading the tones of articles written in the lead up to ICC takeover that were written by journalist - many which i tried to post in this thread - ICC News: Restructuring the ICC, BCCI Influence & more | Page 34 - Cricket Discussion on PlanetCricket Forums

But it was conclusively proven by the best minds in the sport that the BCCI leadership position of trying to get back at England/Australia via what they perceived they did to them whe they had veto power was utter crap and nothing more than them incorporating shameless reverse racism into things.

Past Indians have made ridiculous claims that they mad AUS/ENG never hosted them five test series and that more players where chosen for world series cricket, when in fact just like modern Bangladesh or declining windies - India were never than competitive to deserve such long tours.

There was no evidence also where ENG/AUS back then ever bullied or tried to manipulate other countries in some of the callous ways BCCI does now either. MCC simply ran the game from lords in a old fashion dormant manner. In their own slow way they did try to grow cricket.

Plus ENG & AUS (especially England) always stood up to BCCI as the games custodian. But as IND power grew cricket boards followed the money & ignored principle. Asian block supported BCCI blindly despite India never touring Bangladesh for tests and countries like Windies and ZIM following suite. As we all know before last years tour pull out Windies were seemingly India's favourite team to play and give free money and goodies to.

Regarding BANG & ZIM or even windies getting a more packed schedule, that isn't something I consider major at all. That could have been done long before Big Three came ito fruition since cricket boards have known for a long time that the scheduled needed sorting.

The new big three plan still leaves all nations vulnerable if AUS/IND/ENG decides to play them for any reason. We already are seeing BCCI threatening to end all bilateral ties with windies since that tour pull out.

Cricket needs a saner schedule

T20 leagues clashes and international tournaments/tours is still a major problem

Use of DRS universally still not sorted

S Africa still have quota problems issues

Confusion with world cup format going forward remains with Big Three not having a proper plan for associates but yet want to not involve them in future w-cups

No world on test match world championship

As Eshan Mani said to Wisden recently, we one year into the Big three life and one can only continue to be concerned about where sport is going - Cricket needs a strong West Indies team, says Mani | News | Cricket Blogs, Opinions & Analysis | Wisden India

 

[War]

Of course it is for that reason they are trying to help him but they still are making an effort which will benefit Narine at the end of the day. Yes, they might have been from all caribbean island but they are still West Indian. The match in which Narine was reported had an elite panel umpire and another internal umpire. Just because BCCI's previous record is dubious does not mean we blame them for everything wrong that is happening in the world cricket especially without any proof. I can easily make an "assumption" that Sunil Narine did chuck in the final of WI domestic T20 competition but was not reported because he is such an important asset to WI team in shorter formats. Now I don't have any proof to back it up so until I find one, I can't jut throw my assumption around based on not just limited facts but no facts at all.

Posting a video that is completely irrelevant to the topic, you have performed your duty again sir! Have we renamed the thread as "I hate BCCI" yet?

If a person/institution in any sphere of life has a dubious track record, there is no reason to trust them. Its like football with Sepp Blatter, when he talks you know its lies - but he is so powerful in football just like BCCI in cricket you can't do anything about it.

But as i mentioned previously I concede to the view that poster gkrama made earlier that it could be umpires seeing things incorrectly more so than a direct BCCI manipulation to target him - however i won't rule it out until all facts are shown.

 

[War]

BCCI bans Narine from bowling offbreaks | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo

At minimum the WICB should ask this BCCI committee to reveal the figures in detail of how bad his action is flexing over the limit for off-break, just like how this was shown for Ajmal AND video evidence.

You have wonder how the other ICC lab did not pick this up, but this BCCI so called "accredited lab did.

Side note good that their saying at least his knuckle/carron ball has no problem.

 

[War]

News and Analysis : IPL 2015 | O'Brien: Need all your skills in T20 cricket | Cricket videos, MP3, podcasts, cricket audio | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[cricket_icon]

BCCI bans Narine from bowling offbreaks | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo

At minimum the WICB should ask this BCCI committee to reveal the figures in detail of how bad his action is flexing over the limit for off-break, just like how this was shown for Ajmal AND video evidence.

You have wonder how the other ICC lab did not pick this up, but this BCCI so called "accredited lab did.

Side not good that their saying at least his knuckle/carron ball has no problem.

Sadly, the BCCI do as they want, this was one of the potential problems cited by the majority that opposed the "big 3".

Now a bit off track, but how is this years IPL? I haven't really watched it.

 

[War]

Sadly, the BCCI do as they want, this was one of the potential problems cited by the majority that opposed the "big 3".

Now a bit off track, but how is this years IPL? I haven't really watched it.

I stopped watching that IPL crap years ago and I'm sure that is case with a majority of non Indian fans. I'm just glad unlike a few seasons ago international cricket has not stopped all over the world during these two months.

 

[War]

Narine's ban extends to international cricket: Report - Cricbuzz

Well this is confusing. Does this mean that the results from the uk labs which found no fault in his action are invalid?

 

[Markkkkk]

Ive never been a fan of the BCCI since they threatened to cancel the SA tour because SA hired Haroon Lorgat as the CEO of CSA.