Unofficial Buildup to the 2010/11 Ashes

[Robelinda]

I'm not sure Clark was dropped for pace reasons. More that he had zero impact in that Oval test, and changes had to be made.

 

[War]

Agree, he did well in the West Indies. But so did Brett Lee, implying that it wasn't a wasteland. Unlike India where none of the Aussie bowlers did well, even the great Mitchell Johnson.

Actually Johnson did bowl well in India. He was Australia's best bowler. That was first series Johnson looked 100% test quality, before his breakout 08/09 series vs South Africa. He ran in hard on those roads @ 150 k's. It just that given he is back-of-lenght type bolwer, he didn't have the skills at that time (reverse-swing) to take wickets on Indian pitches.

73mph? Come off it dude. That's 115kph. Mike Hussey bowl's quicker than that. The only balls at 73mph in the Champions League were slower balls. I know he got above 80mph in the Ashes. Not far above, but at least he got there. Anyone have any footage? Can't find jack-crap on Youtube...

I'm very sure he was around that pace sir. I actually taped the Champions League group game betweens NSW vs Trinidad (When Pollard smoked Henriques) & that the pace range Clark was bowling, he never topped 80 mph in any of the 4 overs he bowled.

Plus i quote some other Australians who saw Clark bowled in the Ford Ranger cup this season from another cricket-chat website just after the Champions League:

Cricket Web - View Single Post - *Official* West Indies In Australia

Sadly I think Stuart Clark's time is up, would be pretty suprised to see him in a test squad this summer to be honest, maintains the control and trajectory that made him such a great bowler when he broke into the test team, but he's simply lost too much pace to be a consistent threat at test level imo, discounting terrible opposition batting or Headingley-esque pitches..

Watched his second spell in the FRC match last weekend and he was consistently 118-123kph (no exageration).

Cricket Web - View Single Post - ***Official***Australian Domestic Season Thread 2009/2010

Cricket Web - View Single Post - ***Official***Australian Domestic Season Thread 2009/2010

Stuart Clark bowling sub-120kph pies. Jason Gillespie mk 2.

Yep, Stuart Clark's international career is over, that's for sure.

Cricket Web - View Single Post - ***Official***Australian Domestic Season Thread 2009/2010

hasten there will be changes to NSW after this.
Gotta ask is it worth picking clark in one dayers anymore.
Jaques got shuffled down as NSW look for quick runs.
Bad day all round.
The worry tho clark 120 km's/ph

Plus in the Ashes, he probably did get above 80 mph the odd ball yes. But not much at all. He was mainly in the high 70 mph range.

That pace wasn't an issue on the Headingley greentop. But on the flat Oval pitch he was exposed.

Nope I'd be willing to bet my house that lack of pace was not the first or even second reason for him being dropped. It's AGE/FUTURE USEFULNESS and COMPETITION that finished Stuart Clark. We had Glenn McGrath who'd lost 5-10kph yet we didn't mind keeping him around despite his loss of pace. Same for Brett Lee. Same for Jason Gillespie - ALL these guys lost pace yet they were kept around for at least a little while longer. Because they were a) still good, and b) better than the competition for their spot. Stuart Clark might be still decent, but he's not better than the competition. When you are 35 and it gets to that stage there is no point in hanging onto him. It's Siddle, Hilfenhaus and now Bollinger who've killed Stuart Clark.

McGrath in 2006/07 Ashes although he had dropped pace. Technically wasn't as slow as Clark during the 2009 Ashes. McGrath was bowling the same pace as Hoggard during the 2006/07.

The pace Clark was bowling in the Ashes, Champions League & the current domestic season (by all reports) is similar to what McGrath was bowling in IPL 2008 & 2009 - which is sub 80 deliveries (73-79 mph).

On Gillespie yes he lost pace after his injury vs ZIM 2003, which affected his effectiveness during the 2003/04 home summer vs IND. But as YOU said he was still word-class between SRI 04 - NZ 05.

When Dizzy's killed Dizzy career was his trademark lost of nip & bounce in the 2005 Ashes. Even when he was recalled vs Bangladesh 2006 after a solid domestic season for South Africa - that nip was gone.

Why would you say Lee has lost pace?. He was still bowling 145-150 fairly consistently the last time he played in the ODI series vs India.

Overall Clark drop in pace is main reason why he aint better than his competition. Since i'm fairly sure as i mentioned before if his pace was of the same level as between South Africa 2005/06 - West Indies 08/09 that he probably would have played for Australia this summer instead of McKay & would have been on tour to NZ currently.

The other issue was politics. SOMEONE had to get chopped after the Ashes. In reality the selectors thought Australia had the better of the series and looking at the wickets and run charts yes it looks that way. But to play an unchanged XI after losing the Ashes would have looked bad. So the obvious choice is the 35 year old 4th seamer who they can replace easily with up and comers like Bollinger and Clint McKay.

The politics thing is true. But that doesn't necessarily mean it is always right. As we saw after the 2005 Ashes defat, they axed Martyn stupidly because of it. But yet they abruptly recalled him a few months later:doh

When Australia lost in India 2001, heads didn't role they kept faith in the team.

Clark had to go regardless because his pace was gone.

Anyway, I'll agree that he has lost a BIT of pace. But I personally don't think it matters too much. Like Glenn McGrath, he should be able to winkle out wickets bowling at 80mph instead of 85mph. He relies on movement, not speed and it's not like a guy of Lee's pace losing some speed. If Clark loses his movement he's not going to get picked even if magically finds that 5mph again. A dead straight 85-90mph is Peter Siddle and we don't need another one of him. Clark wasn't selected for his pace - so why should be be dropped because he lost 5mph? I'm sure it was more an annoyance to Ponting & the selectors rather than a deal breaker.

On McGrath. Lets not forget he is a legend. How many fast-bowlers in test history have played test cricket @ 36+ & was still so dangerous?. The only one's i remember was Sir Hadlee in 1990 @ age 39 & Walsh vs South Africa 2001, age 38.


Clark indeed wasn't selected for his pace. But as i keep saying, his significant drop in pace killed his nip & bounce. Which would affect his chances of being a consistent threat outside of a green-top. On flat decks that are ever present in international cricket these days - he would be a joke.

 

[Robelinda]

On Gillespie yes he lost pace after his injury vs ZIM 2003, which affected his effectiveness during the 2003/04 home summer vs ZIM. But as YOU said he was still word-class between SRI 04 - NZ 05.

Mate I agree with all you posted, good work as always, nice to read- except for the above- Dizzy was in crap form right from the start of that 04/05 series, and was very lucky to even make the trip to NZ, against Pak he really struggled and he and Hayden were the two that got the most media attention for being out of form,but Dizzy's head was the one the media wanted, especially around the MCG test.

 

[War]

Mate I agree with all you posted, good work as always, nice to read- except for the above- Dizzy was in crap form right from the start of that 04/05 series, and was very lucky to even make the trip to NZ, against Pak he really struggled and he and Hayden were the two that got the most media attention for being out of form,but Dizzy's head was the one the media wanted, especially around the MCG test.

Ahh now that i think back i believe you are right. After Dizzy's tremendous 04 series vs IND he certainly did look a bit off colour vs PAK & NZ indeed.

But i gues most people including the selectors thought that was minor, no one really expected his plumit during the 05 Ashes,

 

[Robelinda]

It was indeed very sad to see him spray the ball everywhere in 05, he was always a guy everyone liked, bowled great and never got the credit he deserved. Never talked crap and was a genuine nice guy on the field and off the field. Always been a big fan of Dizzy, his commentary work ive heard has been awesome too.

Will never forget his infamous man of the match speech at Headingley in 97, Gower asked him what he was going to do to celebrate, Dizzy said "I'll probably have a few drinks in a very short space of time". Gower and everyone on the balcony cracked up laughing, it was hilarious. He gave such a mental interview, he was so young and had this dry way of talking, love him!

 

[sifter132]

Perhaps my friend War you are correct. If your speed reports are correct then maybe 120kph was too low for Ponting. But I still think it would have been just the final nail in the coffin, not the first. Stuart Clark would have been on the 'deathlist' as soon as the Ashes were done, and I think he was at least a little faster during those. Seeing him bowl slowly (but still successfully) for NSW would have just confirmed their initial call I think.

 

[War]

Yea i wouldn't be surprised if they had him on "deathlist" lsit to be axed post Ashes at all. As you said, the competiton is good enough right now for the selectors to have used to excuse to drop him - even if his pace was still at a good level.

War added 2 Minutes and 3 Seconds later...

It was indeed very sad to see him spray the ball everywhere in 05, he was always a guy everyone liked, bowled great and never got the credit he deserved. Never talked crap and was a genuine nice guy on the field and off the field. Always been a big fan of Dizzy, his commentary work ive heard has been awesome too.

Will never forget his infamous man of the match speech at Headingley in 97, Gower asked him what he was going to do to celebrate, Dizzy said "I'll probably have a few drinks in a very short space of time". Gower and everyone on the balcony cracked up laughing, it was hilarious. He gave such a mental interview, he was so young and had this dry way of talking, love him!

Haa word out Dizzy was great. I sort of remember that instance @ Headingley 97. My favpurite Dizzy moment as a bowler was either his bowling in India 04/05 or his confrontation with Lara @ Antigua 03.

 

[TumTum]

Cricinfo made a spelling mistake

TumTum added 1 Minutes and 42 Seconds later...

It's good to see the new guys get contracts, also I am happy they replaced Paine with for Manou.

 

[Robelinda]

The replaced Paine with Manou??????

 

[Num]

The replaced Paine with Manou??????

Other way round.

 

[drainpipe32]

 

[Robelinda]

Shouldve replaced Manou and Paine with WADE.

 

[TumTum]

Shouldve replaced Manou and Paine with WADE.

I agree. He has been performing really well at FC level and is miles ahead of Paine.

 

[Robelinda]

Dont see what Paine has ahead of Wade, same amount of games and Paine averages what, 29? Wade over 40. For one dayers Paine might be better though.

 

[TumTum]

Wade is good enough to be a batsmen, he is even better than Haddin.